The god who (once again) wasn't there: Virginia Tech

[Theogonia]

This is no longer a thread on belief, its now of criticism and mockery. This is no longer an argument, but opinions based upon opinions, why dont you two give it up already.

Do let us continue, it is really smashing fun!

Being just a "good person" never gets you anywhere.

Righteousness is what it's all about my friend.

You mean it was an argument at one point?

It was until the bible thumpers gate crashed.

 

[Theogonia]

But you have to choose. If You don't choose Satan, you choose God is only true if you choose God.

Why is everything always so bleeding black and white to you people?

 

[Theogonia]

or perhaps it is because God wants you to choose him. If you dont make a choice why would he take it as you loving him, you havent shown you love him, so you might as well have openly sided with satan anyway

It's our fruit that shows if we love God or not.

after all this do you really think that it is so wrong for God to ask that we love him to enter his house??

When the only other alternative is eternal torture, yes.

And if you're righteous, you love God.

 

[Theogonia]

put that way it sure does sound like a scare tactic doesnt it... but (of course there is a but ) i can honestly say that i have never tried to get someone to believe what i do by saying this or anything like this (of course i cant speak for everyone)
like i said before... i dont believe it is a scare tactic, i happen to believe it is the truth

Put that way, it does doesn't it?

And unfortunately, put that way, it is a rough summarization of modern Christianity.

It doesn't matter how you look on it, truth or otherwise, the point is it is so often utilized as a scare tactic it makes me sick.

And there is such a thing as subconscious fear as well.

 

[livingforGod135]

Why is everything always so bleeding black and white to you people?

its not, why do u think that?

God chooses to save whom he will. We have no choice in the matter.
To say that we have the choice to go to hell if we want is to say that God does not save whom he wants.

yes God saves who he wants, its generally accepted that who God wants is who loves him... but hey who are we to say? after all we arent God

It's a right of ours to be tortured for eternity just because we didn't follow Christianity?

if thats the way you see it, yes

I see no reason to follow modern Christianity based on the typical Christian role models of today.

true, some Christians set an example that no-one would want to follow, but dont say everyone is like that just because of some

When the only other alternative is eternal torture, yes.

ummm... i beg to differ, God has the right to do whatever he wants

And if you're righteous, you love God.

not too sure what righteous means so if u could enlighten me on that, i can carry on arguing with u

It's our fruit that shows if we love God or not.

yes it is!

 

[livingforGod135]

Put that way, it does doesn't it?

And unfortunately, put that way, it is a rough summarization of modern Christianity.

It doesn't matter how you look on it, truth or otherwise, the point is it is so often utilized as a scare tactic it makes me sick.

And there is such a thing as subconscious fear as well.

do u have any proof that it is used as a scare tactic?

i dont use it as a scare tactic, i believe it is the truth

just because some people may (or may not) use 'the scare tactic' it doesnt mean it is a rough summarization of modern christianity, btw u got any proof on that either?

 

[mophed20]

scare tactic? why is that even a factor? are we so afraid of getting our skin singed--the same skin that has participated in so many sins, we know not the number--that we flee to God because we are afraid of we rightfully deserve? or do we run to him because we were made to worship God?

humanism at its finest?

 

[mophed20]

our fruit does show our love for God, partly...but what of motives? let's say i want to give you a candy bar, and you think "oh that's so nice, he gave me a candy bar" but in my mind, i am looking forward to the future when you will do something for me, like give me a candy bar, or something possibly better (a king size candy bar...)? is that not wrong, still? even though i did something nice.

 

[mophed20]

maybe a biblical example... consider the pharisees who do all these righteous things! they were celebrities! because they did nice, righteous things, but in their heart, they wanted to do them for recognition, so people saw them. doesn't that make what they did wrong? i'd say so.

 

[mophed20]

i like it when people try to make God's mind up for Him. let's compare, which "opinion seems safer?: "God chooses who He wants to save"... or "We have free-will to choose to follow Him or not..." i think assuming God's nature is playing with fire. because the minute you pull references out to prove your thesis, the opposition uses the same one's, or similar one's to support their own! that's what Arius did in the Arian Heresy (and Got punched in the face by St. Nick!) and i am pretty sure Nestorius did too. so, it would be safer to say that we have free will, because you know what assuming makes out of you and me...

 

[mophed20]

and now for a blank one....

 

[mophed20]

ok, here's the big one. i did those five earlier one's because i had not posted 15 times, and you have to in order to do links. so here it goes, i hope i didn't annoy you!

oh my goodness, these posts are festering with mere opinions! ahhh! let the Holy Spirit convict these people, we try so hard to prove God, and reason as to why God did this or did that, or didn't do something. is not God the God above reason? is not God the creator of reason? He made the rules for how we think, so He can make choices that surpass our reasoning!

whoever wondered why everything is so "bleeding black and white" (i really like how you said that...hehe) you are so right! we make everything seem black and white (not to be confused with relativism)! life isn't that simple, if everything were black and white, why...life would be sooo easy! "this pain means i should no longer do this" or "God says i shouldn't do this, so i won't" we don't work like that, people! we are a fallen people, and life is not 2 dimensional. and by no means is God 2 dimensional!! but that's not philosophical. maybe Christian philosophy, but that's about it, so maybe i didn't prove anything to you all.

if you want to understand more about the nature of God, sometimes it's good to start with what He is not. the link below may help you understand a little more. it is written by a guy named Dionysius the Areopagite. he was one of the early converts of Christianity in acts, and has some good things to say. you don't have to read the whole thing, just scroll down to nearly the bottom to chapter V. it is a book that he wrote called Mystical Theology. theology in early church terms means literally words about God, and it is words about God set apart from existence and the reality as we know it. basically it's about God before the existence of man, or even existence itself as it is understood by our brains. please don't think that i see this as scripture, rather it is held to the same esteem as many modern Christians see many modern Christian writers (ie-C.S. Lewis, John Calvin, Martin Luther etc. etc.). so, i will cut to the chase and provide the link, and look forward to a roaring debate! woo!

http://www.esoteric.msu.edu/VolumeII/MysticalTheology.html

 

[mophed20]

ok, it's not even long, so i am just going to post what i linked to, onto the forum!

CHAPTER V That it that is the pre-eminent Cause of all things intelligibly perceived is not itself any of those things.
Again, ascending yet higher, we maintain that it is neither soul nor intellect; nor has it imagination, opinion reason or understanding; nor can it be expressed or conceived, since it is neither number nor order; nor greatness nor smallness; nor equality nor inequality; nor similarity nor dissimilarity; neither is it standing, nor moving, nor at rest; neither has it power nor is power, nor is light; neither does it live nor is it life; neither is it essence, nor eternity nor time; nor is it subject to intelligible contact; nor is it science nor truth, nor kingship nor wisdom; neither one nor oneness, nor godhead nor goodness; nor is it spirit according to our understanding, nor filiation, nor paternity; nor anything else known to us or to any other beings of the things that are or the things that are not; neither does anything that is know it as it is; nor does it know existing things according to existing knowledge; neither can the reason attain to it, nor name it, nor know it; neither is it darkness nor light, nor the false nor the true; nor can any affirmation or negation be applied to it, for although we may affirm or deny the things below it, we can neither affirm nor deny it, inasmuch as the all-perfect and unique Cause of all things transcends all affirmation, and the simple pre-eminence of Its absolute nature is outside of every negation- free from every limitation and beyond them all.

 

[Theogonia]

our fruit does show our love for God, partly...but what of motives? let's say i want to give you a candy bar, and you think "oh that's so nice, he gave me a candy bar" but in my mind, i am looking forward to the future when you will do something for me, like give me a candy bar, or something possibly better (a king size candy bar...)? is that not wrong, still? even though i did something nice.

Yes, the motive is what makes a work one of righteousness.

You are correct, the pharisees' "good" works were worthless.

 

[Theogonia]

its not, why do u think that?

"But you have to choose. If You don't choose Satan, you choose God is only true if you choose God."

This is a very black and white statement.

yes God saves who he wants, its generally accepted that who God wants is who loves him...

If you obey God you love him. Plenty of non-Christians and non believers obey God.

if thats the way you see it, yes

Why?

true, some Christians set an example that no-one would want to follow, but dont say everyone is like that just because of some

I realize that everyone is not like that, but the modern examples are usually bad. Why else do you think people have such a bad view of Christianity?

not too sure what righteous means so if u could enlighten me on that, i can carry on arguing with u

Technically, righteousness just means ethical conduct, or, the Godly path to life.

yes it is!
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Our fruit determines our righteousness, which in turn determines how close to God we are.

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

People don't choose the things that they believe, don't believe me? Believe that the moon is made of cheese for a day.

This is complete fallacy, you have absolute no questionable analysis of the concept of the nothingness of choice, or any other philosophical observations upon the subject of choice. You may as a child not choose what you wish to learn, but later in life when you realize you can do what you will, it is lost to not choose, for you will always choose.

 

[Morcova]

This is complete fallacy, you have absolute no questionable analysis of the concept of the nothingness of choice, or any other philosophical observations upon the subject of choice. You may as a child not choose what you wish to learn, but later in life when you realize you can do what you will, it is lost to not choose, for you will always choose.

Your talking about learning I'm talking about believing. They are two different things.

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

Your talking about learning I'm talking about believing. They are two different things.

It is a possiblity for the achievement of learning to believe, for instance: i must learn through teaching that jesus is my savior, or that there is no god, believing one of the other is still having faith in the possiblity.

 

[aigiqinf]

Why is everything always so bleeding black and white to you people?

And which "you people" party are you referring that I am a member of?

 

[loudatheist101]

Christian fundamentalists. And he is right by the way.