The god who (once again) wasn't there: Virginia Tech

[aigiqinf]

What if justice is a human invention?
What if God is so just that the human concept of justice is so inadequate in comparison that the Atheist and the Christian may stand before God one day, and the two shall receive exactly the same verdict?

For justice to be a human invention makes no sense. It was God to first punish the serpent in Genesis. A world without justice is not fruitful, without justice it is anarchy. And we know there is no true anarchy, most people claim to want anarchy simply so they may take control. When there is no government, someone always takes advantage of it.
I will indeed admit that human justice is imperfect, but Christian and atheist alike will stand before God, and I won't be one to say some of them will receive the same verdict.

 

[aigiqinf]

Well, is it true, or not true, that that Jewish hero, who lived the holocaust, and saved all those kids for his own life, is going to hell to be burned for eternity? Answer this. Yes or no.

I cannot tell you who will go to Hell, and who will not, for that is not my choice. It is not for us to judge God's law by human law, but to judge human law by God's law. Be sure that God will make the right, choice, for he incapable of no making the right choice, and remember God is caring.

That's a matter of opinion and not a fact.

I assume that would be what the Nazis would say if you said to them Jews were people.

Leads people away from God only in the opinion of the church. I however, have found that that isn't the case.

Some people in fact find God in other religions, as opposed to Christianity.

We can be sure they find a god, but we can't be sure it is God.

Yet another idea that somehow, almost every Christian I've talked to doesn't get.

Notice I said should, just because many people don't get it doesn't mean everyone doesn't

What you're missing here, is the hard question:

Did that Jew who obviously demonstrated true love and was a true follower of God go to hell just because he wasn't a Christian?

I would say he was a true Christian; whether he believed in Jesus or not is not important.

Isn't that a contradiction? A Christian is: one who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus. Rejoice because God is indeed just, and everyone will get a fair judgment.

It has nothing to do with hate, he is merely shocked at how supposed followers of God can believe such horrible untruths. As am I.

I believe atheist believe some pretty horrible untruths myself quotes like "That professor that survived the Holocuast saved all this kids yet, our all loving God is ticked off because that professor did not love Jesus, so that hero will burn in hell for enternity. Oh I love how all loving and forgiving Jesus is!"
are what atheist get on Christians for making all the time.

 

[loudatheist101]

I cannot tell you who will go to Hell, and who will not, for that is not my choice. It is not for us to judge God's law by human law, but to judge human law by God's law. Be sure that God will make the right, choice, for he incapable of no making the right choice, and remember God is caring.

I assume that would be what the Nazis would say if you said to them Jews were people.
We can be sure they find a god, but we can't be sure it is God.
Notice I said should, just because many people don't get it doesn't mean everyone doesn't
Isn't that a contradiction? A Christian is: one who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus. Rejoice because God is indeed just, and everyone will get a fair judgment.
I believe atheist believe some pretty horrible untruths myself quotes like "That professor that survived the Holocuast saved all this kids yet, our all loving God is ticked off because that professor did not love Jesus, so that hero will burn in hell for enternity. Oh I love how all loving and forgiving Jesus is!"
are what atheist get on Christians for making all the time.

Look dude, according to the Bible, it says those who do not love Jesus burn forever, regardless. Therefore, if a jew or atheist or muslim or any non Christian, saved the world from a missle about to blow us all up, that person would still burn in Hell. Same if a non Christian took his own life for other kids.

 

[Theogonia]

I assume that would be what the Nazis would say if you said to them Jews were people.

Different issue, no comparison.

We can be sure they find a god, but we can't be sure it is God.

You'll know if it's God by the fruit they produce.

Notice I said should, just because many people don't get it doesn't mean everyone doesn't

I didn't say that.

Isn't that a contradiction? A Christian is: one who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.

"Christian" means "follower of Christ". That Jew was following Christ's teachings.

One does not have to follow the religion or even believe in Jesus to follow his teachings.

He taught morality, and so if one is moral, they are following his teachings.

Rejoice because God is indeed just, and everyone will get a fair judgment.

I hear that all the time, and a lot of Christians have a strange believe as to what a fair judgement actually is.

I believe atheist believe some pretty horrible untruths myself quotes like "That professor that survived the Holocuast saved all this kids yet, our all loving God is ticked off because that professor did not love Jesus, so that hero will burn in hell for enternity. Oh I love how all loving and forgiving Jesus is!"
are what atheist get on Christians for making all the time.

Sadly, that is how many Christians today think.

 

[aigiqinf]

Different issue, no comparison.

Same issue, more people dying.

You'll know if it's God by the fruit they produce.

Indeed

He taught morality, and so if one is moral, they are following his teachings.

That reminds me of "Love is blind, God is blind, Ray Charles is blind, therefore Ray Charles is God."

I hear that all the time, and a lot of Christians have a strange believe as to what a fair judgement actually is.

All that matters is what God says it is.

Sadly, that is how many Christians today think.

Has it ever truly mattered what people think?

 

[aigiqinf]

Look dude, according to the Bible, it says those who do not love Jesus burn forever, regardless. Therefore, if a jew or atheist or muslim or any non Christian, saved the world from a missle about to blow us all up, that person would still burn in Hell. Same if a non Christian took his own life for other kids.

But this world is only temporary, so this life only leads to what the next world is like. So what's saving everyone from a bomb in the long run?

 

[loudatheist101]

But this world is only temporary, so this life only leads to what the next world is like. So what's saving everyone from a bomb in the long run?

Ok, so you still think that guy who saved all those kids for his life is going to Hell? Just because he didn't love Jesus? Is that all Jesus cares about? Who loves Him and who doesn't? Jee wiz.

 

[aigiqinf]

Ok, so you still think that guy who saved all those kids for his life is going to Hell? Just because he didn't love Jesus? Is that all Jesus cares about? Who loves Him and who doesn't? Jee wiz.

Its one of your rights, the right to go to Hell.

 

[loudatheist101]

Its one of your rights, the right to go to Hell.

He chooses who goes and who doesn't. The only thing you need to do to go to Hell is not love this god. He does not care how good of a person you are, you love him or you don't. You are with Him or against Him, that is how he thinks.

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

This is no longer a thread on belief, its now of criticism and mockery. This is no longer an argument, but opinions based upon opinions, why dont you two give it up already.

 

[aigiqinf]

He chooses who goes and who doesn't. The only thing you need to do to go to Hell is not love this god. He does not care how good of a person you are, you love him or you don't. You are with Him or against Him, that is how he thinks.

Being just a "good person" never gets you anywhere.

This is no longer a thread on belief, its now of criticism and mockery. This is no longer an argument, but opinions based upon opinions, why dont you two give it up already.

You mean it was an argument at one point?

 

[loudatheist101]

Being just a "good person" never gets you anywhere.

You mean it was an argument at one point?

I know, being a good person gets you no where when it comes to our all loving God. That's my point. You either love Him, or not. You either burn or not for eternity. All He cares about is whether people love Him or not.

 

[aigiqinf]

I know, being a good person gets you no where when it comes to our all loving God. That's my point. You either love Him, or not. You either burn or not for eternity. All He cares about is whether people love Him or not.

Because you choose him or the world. He made you and you forsake him. If you don't choose him you have chosen Satan.

 

[m9lc]

Because you choose him or the world. He made you and you forsake him. If you don't choose him you have chosen Satan.

Why is it "If you don't choose God, you choose Satan" rather than "If you don't choose Satan, you choose God"?

Is it perhaps because the latter would take away the scare tactic of Christianity, thus preventing it from becoming a mainstream religion?

 

[aigiqinf]

Why is it "If you don't choose God, you choose Satan" rather than "If you don't choose Satan, you choose God"?

Is it perhaps because the latter would take away the scare tactic of Christianity, thus preventing it from becoming a mainstream religion?

But you have to choose. If You don't choose Satan, you choose God is only true if you choose God.

 

[Morcova]

For justice to be a human invention makes no sense. It was God to first punish the serpent in Genesis.

Could you provide any evidence that god punished a snake?

 

[aigiqinf]

Could you provide any evidence that god punished a snake?

Could you provide any evidence that he didn't?

 

[livingforGod135]

Why is it "If you don't choose God, you choose Satan" rather than "If you don't choose Satan, you choose God"?

Is it perhaps because the latter would take away the scare tactic of Christianity, thus preventing it from becoming a mainstream religion?

or perhaps it is because God wants you to choose him. If you dont make a choice why would he take it as you loving him, you havent shown you love him, so you might as well have openly sided with satan anyway

Christianity doesnt have a scare tactic... i wasnt scared when i became a Christian... you obviously aren't scared else you wouldnt be arguing against it

being 'good' does matter, otherwise as Christians we would just be doing whatever we liked... instead we try to do 'good' because of our love for God.

God cares wether we do 'good' or not, he also cares if we love him or not, and that is what is most important, because 'good' would be to show other people the love of God thru our lives... and how can u show Gods love if you dont love him

Also i think maybe God has the right to say that loving him is the 'prerequisite' to enter heaven, he created us and the earth we live in... look around you and check out just how awesome that is... and before you comment on all the bad stuff in the world a) are you also taking into account the good stuff? and b) all the bad stuff is due to our sin, the world was perfect before we stuffed it up, God gave us free will which is the perfect gift, the gift to choose. free will was my second point anyway, and my third point: he loves us so much that he sent his only son to die a criminals death on a cross for sins that were not his, but ours, so that 'none may perish but have eternal life' and guess what?!? all we have to do is love him! 'we love because he first loved us' we dont have to live perfectly, we are allowed to stuff up and time and time again not only will Jesus' own blood wash us clean but he will be the one to help us back on our feet again

after all this do you really think that it is so wrong for God to ask that we love him to enter his house??

 

[Morcova]

Could you provide any evidence that he didn't?

I accept your concession.

 

[aigiqinf]

I accept your concession.

Hardly, I just don't want to get into this over used discussion of "burden of proof."