Examining the Save 3ABN Website

[DarylFawcett]

As the other 3ABN thread was closed by the one who started it, and as I am concerned about things related to 3ABN, I have created this new topic in hopes that this will facilitate discussing and resolving the issues that will save 3ABN, which I believe the Save3abn.com website is all about.

Please feel free to go to the link, http://www.save3abn.com as the intended purpose of this website is to be a part of a larger effort to save 3ABN to the cause, and vindicate the character of God, whose name has been brought into reproach through the allegations leveled at 3ABN.

3ABN is a public network with public figures to the extent that they are seen by many viewers as the "face of Adventism."

As all the other avenues have failed to bring about resolution, the Save3abn website was created in hopes of facilitating some type of resolution.

As stated earlier in this post, please feel free to analyze what is at that site for the purpose of establishing, questioning, or even refuting what is there.

 

[Jimlarmore]

I don't recommend this site as it seems to have an agenda against Danny Shelton and 3ABN. It also makes some allegations that it does not document concerning Tommy Shelton. If its going to accuse someone it needs to document that accusation or it is nothing more than a rumor mill.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[DarylFawcett]

The allegations against Tommy Shelton are well documented.

There are statements there from more than two victims of Tommy Shelton.

 

[DarylFawcett]

I don't recommend this site as it seems to have an agenda against Danny Shelton and 3ABN. It also makes some allegations that it does not document concerning Tommy Shelton. If its going to accuse someone it needs to document that accusation or it is nothing more than a rumor mill.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

I think everybody reading this should examine that site and come to their own conclusion as to whether or not that site has its own agenda against Danny Shelton and 3ABN.

As far as the accusations against Tommy Shelton goes, everybody reading this should also examine the documentation there beginning with the following link:

http://www.save3abn.com/tommy-shelton-ordination-suspended.htm

 

[Dasdream]

kinda of sad that their making this public. Can't they keep their "jerry Springer type relationship" behind closed doors. No need for the public to know about this.

 

[DarylFawcett]

I replied to the public aspect in the other thread.

 

[Jimlarmore]

The allegations against Tommy Shelton are well documented.

There are statements there from more than two victims of Tommy Shelton.

I don't want to sound insensitive here. However, I was a law enforcement officer for over 9 years and
statements of child molestation without an arrest report are useless to me and can be made by anyone willing to lie. I've seen it happen many times. An accusation as serious as this warrants immediate action when it happened and an arrest should follow. BTW, this is a felony in every state of the union. Cases like this demands facts though and very careful investigation. If it's not documented legally in close proximity to the time this offense occurred it automatically becomes suspect, especially after several years. If the situation was that bad he should have been arrested there's no doubt. Anyone know if that happened or not?

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[DarylFawcett]

Being Canadian I am not familiar with US laws regarding this as I think I am regarding Canadian laws. In Canada there isn't any statute of limitations, however, I understand there is a statute of limitations in the USA.

Am I correct?

If I am correct, then, if the victims came forth after the statute of limitations ran out, then wasn't it too late to charge the offender?

 

[DarylFawcett]

The following is a quote from a post in a forum at Maritime SDA OnLine:

The U.S. Constitution: Reference has been made to the U.S. Constitutions. In general, those comments have been made about Constitutional provisions that apply to criminal prosecution and do not apply to civil affairs. It should also be noted that in the area of sexual misconduct our modern society requires that action be taken to protect people regardless of criminal conviction. There may be no criminal conviction, but society has said we must protect people regardless of that lack of conviction. People who argue otherwise do not understand the law, the U.S. Constitution, or society today.

Prosecution: Some make a large point of the fact that no one has been prosecuted for sexual misconduct. In doing so they fail to understand the situation. Lack of criminal prosecution does not mean innocence. The passage of time and the “statute of limitations” may be a bar to criminal prosecution. That does not mean that steps should not be taken to protect people. For personal reasons victims of sexual assault may simply decide not to prosecute. If you understand the legal system, such is understandable. They should not be criticized for such a position."

 

[Sophia7]

Yes, I believe there is a statute of limitations for this type of crime in the United States. I remember reading about it, but I can't remember how long it is. I'm sure the information could be easily looked up.

I think if victims won't come forward, it's not so much their decision not to prosecute (that's the prosecutor's decision) but their decision not to testify against the accused (or their parents' decision in the case of a minor). I can only imagine how hard it must be for a victim to face the perpetrator in court. Without that testimony the prosecutor wouldn't have much of a case.

 

[DarylFawcett]

The victims as well as the victims parents are now coming forward, however, it seems it may be too late to prosecute in relation to the statute of limitations.

The statements from both the kn own victims and some of their parents can be found at the Save3abn.com website.

 

[dclem]

I don't want to sound insensitive here. However, I was a law enforcement officer for over 9 years and
statements of child molestation without an arrest report are useless to me and can be made by anyone willing to lie. I've seen it happen many times. An accusation as serious as this warrants immediate action when it happened and an arrest should follow. BTW, this is a felony in every state of the union. Cases like this demands facts though and very careful investigation. If it's not documented legally in close proximity to the time this offense occurred it automatically becomes suspect, especially after several years. If the situation was that bad he should have been arrested there's no doubt. Anyone know if that happened or not?

God Bless
Jim Larmore

My name is Duane Clem, and I am one of the victims who made a statement on save3abn.com. I am NOT a liar. If you are a former law enforcement officer, then you should know how hard it would be for so many people to come up with the same story at different times.

There are at least 5 other victims I know of that have not come forward yet. All tell the same story. Have you had much experience dealing with victims of sexual assault? From the tone of your post, apparently not.

 

[DarylFawcett]

Hi Duane,

I just noticed your post here to which I also noticed he didn't make a reply.

 

[DarylFawcett]

By the way, there is now tons of additional information/facts at the http://www.save3abn.com site.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

daryl do you think i should send them my packet of first hand statements.?

 

[DarylFawcett]

I would first look over the whole site to see if they already have it there.

 

[Jimlarmore]

My name is Duane Clem, and I am one of the victims who made a statement on save3abn.com. I am NOT a liar. If you are a former law enforcement officer, then you should know how hard it would be for so many people to come up with the same story at different times.

There are at least 5 other victims I know of that have not come forward yet. All tell the same story. Have you had much experience dealing with victims of sexual assault? From the tone of your post, apparently not.

In the years I was in law enforcement I delt with this quite a bit. I am not calling you a liar on this. I know what you went thru must have been horrible, especially if you were very young when it happened.

The point I was trying to make is this: Sometimes what happens is what I call the ban wagon effect. One person , some years later , says they were violated then all of a sudden there are many more who come foward. In a few cases the claims are legitimate and sometimes I have found that they were not. You have to look at each case individually and see what may have caused a delay in reporting this or if there is a motive for them to come forward now instead of back then. This can all be very brutal for the victim to endure.

When a lot of time passes the claimant is always suspected of lying because the question is why didn't you come foward right after it happened, or at least tell someone who would come foward for you? If you are willing to take a lie detector test and it hasn't been more than what the statutes of limitations say I believe you should persue this with all of your might. This is a terrible thing and who ever does this no matter who they are should be punished as the lowly criminal they are.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Adventist Heretic]

In the years I was in law enforcement I delt with this quite a bit. I am not calling you a liar on this. I know what you went thru must have been horrible, especially if you were very young when it happened.

The point I was trying to make is this: Sometimes what happens is what I call the ban wagon effect. One person , some years later , says they were violated then all of a sudden there are many more who come foward. In a few cases the claims are legitimate and sometimes I have found that they were not. You have to look at each case individually and see what may have caused a delay in reporting this or if there is a motive for them to come forward now instead of back then. This can all be very brutal for the victim to endure.

When a lot of time passes the claimant is always suspected of lying because the question is why didn't you come foward right after it happened, or at least tell someone who would come foward for you? If you are willing to take a lie detector test and it hasn't been more than what the statutes of limitations say I believe you should persue this with all of your might. This is a terrible thing and who ever does this no matter who they are should be punished as the lowly criminal they are.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

thst is a pretty hard attitude and shows you know nothing about sexual abuse. While it may be true that there band wagon effect. Aduse vicitms don't come foreward usually because of the social situation. the offender is ususally someone precieved as powerful and well liked. victims are not usually believed any way

 

[Jimlarmore]

thst is a pretty hard attitude and shows you know nothing about sexual abuse. While it may be true that there band wagon effect. Aduse vicitms don't come foreward usually because of the social situation. the offender is ususally someone precieved as powerful and well liked. victims are not usually believed any way

I probably worked over 50 cases as an investigator and have studied the psychology of what happens to victims of sexual abuse but if you think that means I know nothing about sexual abuse then so be it.

Like I said this can be very brutal to the victims and the very nature of the investigation brings all the hurtful aspects of the crime right back into vivid focus again for them. Old wounds are opened up again and that hurts a lot. Time has a tendency to heal wounds but the scars may last a life time. Some don't come foward because they don't want to re-live the event/s of the crime because it hurts to even think about it. Some don't come foward because of the shame involved in being a part of such a thing. Some don't come foward because they are just plainly afraid to, and you can't blame them. However, in a few cases some that come foward are doing it for an ulterior motive of casting a false accusation on someone.

My wife had a cousin who accused her dad of sexually abusing her when she was young and got charges filed on him. He went to prison screaming he was innocent of the charges. Ten years afterward she came foward and admitted to lying about it. She was just mad at him for not buying her a car and wanted to ruin his life. Well, guess what? She did.

I'm just telling you the stark reality of the way the system will look at this if several years have elapsed. I'm not trying to be hard or insensitive here. I was all about putting guys like this in jail for years but then again you always have to allow a presumption of innocence unless the charged is proven guilty by a court of law and even then they may not get it right.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[dclem]

I probably worked over 50 cases as an investigator and have studied the psychology of what happens to victims of sexual abuse but if you think that means I know nothing about sexual abuse then so be it.

Like I said this can be very brutal to the victims and the very nature of the investigation brings all the hurtful aspects of the crime right back into vivid focus again for them. Old wounds are opened up again and that hurts a lot. Time has a tendency to heal wounds but the scars may last a life time. Some don't come foward because they don't want to re-live the event/s of the crime because it hurts to even think about it. Some don't come foward because of the shame involved in being a part of such a thing. Some don't come foward because they are just plainly afraid to, and you can't blame them. However, in a few cases some that come foward are doing it for an ulterior motive of casting a false accusation on someone.

My wife had a cousin who accused her dad of sexually abusing her when she was young and got charges filed on him. He went to prison screaming he was innocent of the charges. Ten years afterward she came foward and admitted to lying about it. She was just mad at him for not buying her a car and wanted to ruin his life. Well, guess what? She did.

I'm just telling you the stark reality of the way the system will look at this if several years have elapsed. I'm not trying to be hard or insensitive here. I was all about putting guys like this in jail for years but then again you always have to allow a presumption of innocence unless the charged is proven guilty by a court of law and even then they may not get it right.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Oh, you've "studied the psychology" of sexual abuse victims.

Counselors, psychiatrists, psychologists, whoever. If you haven't been a victim of sexual abuse, you don't know what you're talking about. Period.

I'm tired of people reading a book or listening to a lecture or two on sexual abuse and then thinking that they're somehow qualified to understand how victims feel or "help" us deal with it. Sexual abuse counselors are a joke and incompetent unless they've been abused in their past.

I'm not trying to be harsh, but you don't know nearly as much as you think you do on this subject.