Yet another "Mary" thread . . . . .

[OrthodoxyUSA]

. . . . and, if Mary still carried baby Jesus in her womb she would remain untouched. But, what would be the reason of her remaining a virgin after Jesus' birth?

Remaining a virgin after the birth is the only proof that she was ever a virgin in the first place.

If you found something broken, you could argue all day as to when it was broken... before or after... but if it remained unbroken how will we then say when it broke.

Forgive me...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus
Are you then saying the CC/Vatican is misrepresenting itself as the "first Church"?

Reve 2:26 And the one conquering, and the one keeping, until finish the acts of Me, I shall be giving to him authority over the Nations.
27 And he shall be sherpherding them in iron rod/staff, as the vessels, the pottery, is being crushed, as also I have obtained beside the Father of Me.
28 And I shall be giving to him the Star, the Morning.

Hint Hint...

Forgive me...

I don't have a lot of "silver and gold" [Hint Hint]

zeph 1:17 "I will bring distress upon men, And they shall walk like blind men, Because they have sinned against the LORD; Their blood shall be poured out like dust, And their flesh like dung." 18 Neither their silver nor their gold Shall be able to deliver them In the day of the LORD's wrath;

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I don't have a lot of "silver and gold" [Hint Hint]

zeph 1:17 "I will bring distress upon men, And they shall walk like blind men, Because they have sinned against the LORD; Their blood shall be poured out like dust, And their flesh like dung." 18 Neither their silver nor their gold Shall be able to deliver them In the day of the LORD's wrath;

The word "keeping" in the quoted verse of Revelations refers to keeping the Holy Traditions (by word or by epistle), not silver and Gold.

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

The word "conquering" in Rev 2:26 refers to conquering evil.

Forgive me...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The word "keeping" in the quoted verse of Revelations refers to keeping the Holy Traditions (by word or by epistle), not silver and Gold.

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Forgive me...

And I keep them Diligently without a denominational Icon by my name.

agape (Strong's 26) occurs 116 times in 106 verses:

Matthew 24:12 "And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.

1 Corinthians 13:13 and now there doth remain faith, hope, love--these three; and the greatest of these [is] love.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

And I keep them Diligently....

Obviously not... you argue against the ever-virginity of Mary.

A Holy Tradition by word.

In fact... please name "one" Holy Tradition "of word" that you do keep.

Forgive me...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Obviously not... you argue against the ever-virginity of Mary.

A Holy Tradition by word.

In fact... please name "one" Holy Tradition "of word" that you do keep.

Forgive me...

I don't see it in the Bible anywhere.

zeph 1:17 "I will bring distress upon men, And they shall walk like blind men, Because they have sinned against the LORD; Their blood shall be poured out like dust, And their flesh like dung." 18 Neither their silver nor their gold Shall be able to deliver them In the day of the LORD's wrath;

John 11:48 "If we let Him alone like this, everyone will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place/topon <5117> and nation."

Reve 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael [Daniel 12] and his messengers fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his messengers fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place/ topoV <5117> found for them in heaven any longer.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I don't see it in the Bible anywhere.

zeph 1:17 "I will bring distress upon men, And they shall walk like blind men, Because they have sinned against the LORD; Their blood shall be poured out like dust, And their flesh like dung." 18 Neither their silver nor their gold Shall be able to deliver them In the day of the LORD's wrath;

John 11:48 "If we let Him alone like this, everyone will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place/topon <5117> and nation."

Reve 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael [Daniel 12] and his messengers fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his messengers fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place/ topoV <5117> found for them in heaven any longer.

If you found it in the Bible it would be "of epistle". Please name one Holy Tradition "of word" that you keep.

Just one... I contend that you keep none by word, and only those by epistle.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

You seem to have no trouble saying that we are wrong for keeping Holy Traditions that were handed down by word. However the Bible clearly states that we are to do so.

Therefore, it is without a doubt that you should be able to show something that you have held onto by word and not by epistle.

Forgive me...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

If you found it in the Bible it would be "of epistle". Please name one Holy Tradition "of word" that you keep.

Just one... I contend that you keep none by word, and only those by epistle.

Forgive me...

No Jewish traditions or man made "church" traditions that are not in the Bible. That is what got the OC Jewish Priesthood in trouble with the LORD.

(Young) Exodus 12:21 And Moses calleth for all the elders of Israel, and saith unto them, `Draw out and take for yourselves [from] the flock, for your families, and slaughter the passover-sacrifice;

(Young) Revelation 5:9 and they sing a new song, saying, `Worthy art thou to take the scroll, and to open the seals of it, because Thou wast slaughtered, and didst redeem [59 agorazo] Us to God in Thy blood, out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation,

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

So then, everything in Christianity that was not recorded Biblically has no value to you?

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

How do you reconcile yourself to 2Th 2:15?

And BTW ~ We are now approaching a line at which you would need to be able to show what books are to be contained in the Bible that you believe, for there is certainly more text in one Bible than in another... and the KJV is incomplete.

Forgive me...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So then, everything in Christianity that was not recorded Biblically has no value to you?

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

How do you reconcile yourself to 2Th 2:15?

And BTW ~ We are now approaching a line at which you would need to be able to show what books are to be contained in the Bible that you believe, for there is certainly more text in one Bible than in another... and the KJV is incomplete.

Forgive me...

The word being spoken would have been what were written in the Epistles, as not everyone would have had access to them.

Still no made up man made traditions for me to follow though as I would hate to end up as the OC Jewish Priesthood did.

Reve 11:2 and, the Court/Palace[Court of High Priest/Altar of Burnt Offerings?][ #833] the one without the Sanctuary[#3485], be you casting out!! [#1544 ekbale] out-side,[exw #1854]

http://www.creeds.net/
Creeds of Denominations

The Creeds and Confessions produced by the Christian Church over the centuries are not inspired additions to Scripture nor in any way replacements for the words of Christ and his apostles or the prophets which preceded them. Instead these human documents are carefully considered and usually thoughtfully worded responses to various issues, heresies and historical situations that have troubled the Church and the world over the centuries. Creeds are statements of faith that are true and authoritative insofar as they accurately reflect what Scripture teaches. Those linked here have been found useful either by the entire Church or by important segments and/or denominations of it over the ages. They are thus helpful "measuring sticks" for orthodoxy. Canons but not the canon.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Incorrect.

Psst . .. be careful about bursting those bubbles some have . . they don't know about all those ancient prayers and hymns and liturgies of the Christian Church that refer to Mary as Ever Virgin . . . We don't want to give them a heart attack . . . they might find out they are wrong . . ..


.

 

[thereselittleflower]

In 107, Ignatius of Antioch described the virginity of Mary as "hidden from the prince of this world… loudly proclaimed, but wrought in the silence of God".[2] The affirmation of the doctrine of Mary's virginity before, during, and after the birth of Jesus was the principal aim of the early second century work, the Protoevangelium of James (c. 120-150).[3] The work, concerned with the character and purity of Mary, claims that Joseph had children from a marriage previous to Mary.[4] However, the text does not explicitly assert the doctrine of perpetual virginity, the earliest such surviving reference being Origen's Commentary on Matthew,[5] where he cites the Protoevangelium in support.

By the fourth century, the doctrine is well attested.[6] Athanasius described Mary as "Ever-Virgin",[7] as did Epiphanius.[8] Hilary argued in favor of the doctrine,[9] and to this may be added Didymus,[10] Ambrose,[11] Jerome,[12] Siricius[13] and others. However, it cannot be said that unanimity existed in antiquity concerning the doctrine, as it was denied by Tertullian,[14] and Jovinian's teaching that childbirth ended Mary's physical virginity had to be condemned by a synod of Milan in 390.

Further important statements of the belief include the Lateran Synod of 649, Thomas Aquinas's teaching that Mary gave birth painlessly in miraculous fashion without opening of the womb and without injury to the hymen,[15] Pope Paul IV's Cum quorundam of 7 August 1555 at the Council of Trent,[16] and most recently the statements in the current catechism.[17]

During the Protestant Reformation, the doctrine came to be questioned, although such notable reformers as Martin Luther,[18] Huldrych Zwingli,[19] John Calvin,[20] and John Wesley[21] accepted its veracity.[22] However, the absence of clear Biblical statements expressing the doctrine, in combination with the principle of sola scriptura, kept references to the doctrine out of the Reformation creeds. Additionally, the tendency to associate veneration of Mary with idolatry[23] and the rejection of clerical celibacy[24] lead to the eventual denial of this doctrine amongst most Protestant churches. Lastly, many Protestant communities cite Biblical passages that refer to the "brothers" of Jesus (see below, see also Desposyni).


From here

You can dispute the PV of the Theotokos if you like, but the historicity of the belief is ancient and well documented.

OOOPS! Too late with the warning I see!


.

 

[thereselittleflower]

The early fathers rejected it.. It wasn't until 1850 that this became dogma...

I am sure glad I didn't have anything in my mouth when I read that. . it would have been all over the screen!





.

 

[HisKid1973]

So then, everything in Christianity that was not recorded Biblically has no value to you?

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

How do you reconcile yourself to 2Th 2:15?

And BTW ~ We are now approaching a line at which you would need to be able to show what books are to be contained in the Bible that you believe, for there is certainly more text in one Bible than in another... and the KJV is incomplete.

Forgive me...

Not really no "value" but not enought to do extra- biblical practices...I think what was spoke by word or letter by the original apostles by then would have made it into written form by then...Remember at the judgement seat of Christ for all true believers in Christ, the works will be judged by following Christ's teachings alone..If we treated others as Christ taught us and will have nothing to do with extra biblical practices...Thats why I think the scriptures contain al we need to commit our lives to Chrsit and mature in the faith...pax...kim

I have read things like Foxxes "Book of martyrs" I know and appreciate the faith of the saints and their example in the past, but I'll just stict to the same teachings Christ gave them..

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Oblio
In 107, Ignatius of Antioch described the virginity of Mary as "hidden from the prince of this world… loudly proclaimed,

I have a rather interesting study on that.
I would say this was pretty good "timing" by the Lord Jesus.

John 14:30 I will no more talk much with you, for the ruler of this world doth come, and in me he hath nothing;

(Young) John 18:3 Judas, therefore, having taken the band and officers out of the chief priests and Pharisees, doth come thither with torches and lamps, and weapons;

 

[thereselittleflower]

ekke... let that be a warning to the western christian faith the demeans the "Ark" that carried the living word of God not just tablets of stone!

kyril

Now don't go tying this demeaning of the Ark of our Lord to all of Western Christian faith . . only a very, very small segment of Western Christian faith does so . . .

Just to clarify . . .


.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hi. This thread has been interesting, but I feel there is no real edification as far as Jesus goes, so I am going to bow out and I love all of you as brothers and sisters in the Lord and King Jesus. Bless all of you.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Can we take a poll on that ? If you view her symbolically like that, then you should have no problem viewing here as a type of New Jeruslem/Judah/Israel.

(Young) Jeremiah 31:22 Till when dost thou withdraw thyself, O backsliding daughter? For Jehovah hath prepared a new thing in the land, Woman doth compass man.

We don't view her symbolically like this . . This is what She IS . .the Ark of the New Covenant. .

The Living Ark of the Living Bread, the Living High Priest the Living Word. . .

The Ark of the Old Covenant was a symbol of HER . .Mary was the fulfillment of the type . . .

The Type was the Ark of the OC . . a shadow of what was to come . .

Mary is its fulfilment.



It is strange how some will give more respect and honor to the shadow instead of what it pointed to . . .

The Ark of the Living Word is much greater than any type that fore shadowed Her . . . .


.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Then study to see if what you believe is indeed truth from Gods word.. Study the Ark of the covenant..

Yes, and while you are at it, study the parallels Luke uses between Mary and the Ark in the Gospel of Luke. . .


.