Yet another "Mary" thread . . . . .

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Mary is not the Ark of the covenant.. She is the mother of Jesus whom was fully man and fully God... This is who Jesus is.. Mary is a Jewish young woman who had a Word of the Lord and she said let it be done to me as you have spoken.. THerefore she became the earthly mother of Jesus in whom was not only our redemtion but hers also..

To Christians, she is know as The Ark of The New Covenant.

For obvious reasons.

Forgive me...

 

[orthodoxy]

Mary is the "Ark" that carried the "Word of God".. you cannot imagine Mary as the Ark of the "New Covenant" in this way as the "Ark" that carried the "word of God" on tablets of stone?

Did not Jesus ever sit in the lap of Mary, His mother growing up into a young lad? Is not Mary the Throne to the Living Word in this imagery?

Mary is seen over and over in the OT imagery... She is the "tongs" that carries the coal to the lips of Isaiah... The "sea" which is parted for the Israelites to "pass through" as in giving birth to a nation... Mary is the Gate in which the Lord God has entered which will be closed and no other will enter by.... Mary is the "burning bush" in which contained the "fire of God" without being consumed... etc, etc, etc...

if the entire bible is about Jesus Christ then Mary is ever present....

kyril

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

To Christians, she is know as The Ark of The New Covenant.

For obvious reasons.

Forgive me...

Can we take a poll on that ? If you view her symbolically like that, then you should have no problem viewing here as a type of New Jeruslem/Judah/Israel.

(Young) Jeremiah 31:22 Till when dost thou withdraw thyself, O backsliding daughter? For Jehovah hath prepared a new thing in the land, Woman doth compass man.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Can we take a poll on that ? If you view her symbolically like that, then you should have no problem viewing here as a type of New Jeruslem/Judah/Israel.

No problem. Please be sure to include all the Christians who have passed before us as well.

Forgive me...

 

[BBAS 64]

To Christians, she is know as The Ark of The New Covenant.

For obvious reasons.

Forgive me...

Good Day, Othodoxy

Could you edit this to say some Christians, paint with a broad brush you are bound to make mistakes....

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[IamAdopted]

Mary carried the man Jesus. Jesus carried the fulness of God.. The ark.. So therefore Jesus would be the ark of the Covenant for it is in christ that the NEW covenant came.. So when Jesus died the temple veil was torn. Jesus is God with us.. No longer the ark of the covenant where God was with Isreal.. Now in the form if His Son..

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Good Day, Othodoxy

Could you edit this to say some Christians, paint with a broad brush you are bound to make mistakes....

Peace to u,

Bill

No.

Perhaps the doctrine is not important to you. It is to orthodox Christians.

Paint with your own brush...

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Mary carried the man Jesus. Jesus carried the fulness of God.. The ark.. So therefore Jesus would be the ark of the Covenant for it is in christ that the NEW covenant came.. So when Jesus died the temple veil was torn. Jesus is God with us.. No longer the ark of the covenant where God was with Isreal.. Now in the form if His Son..

Jesus did not carry God.

Christ Jesus IS God.

Forgive me...

 

[IamAdopted]

In Jesus was the fullness of God... He was fully man and fully God.. Get the picture? Mary is not God with us.. Jesus is God with us Immanuel...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by BBAS 64
Good Day, Othodoxy

Could you edit this to say some Christians, paint with a broad brush you are bound to make mistakes....

Peace to u,

Bill

No.

Perhaps the doctrine is not important to you. It is to orthodox Christians.

Paint with your own brush...

Forgive me...

Hi. Well, I am an O-C in the Christ and that doctrine is not important to me.

(NKJV) Deuteronomy 4:11 "Then you came near and stood at the foot of the mountain, and the mountain burned with fire to the midst of heaven, with darkness, cloud, and thick darkness.

Out with the Old:

(NKJV) Revelation 8:8 Then the second angel sounded: And [something] like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

The Veneration of the Mother of God During Her Earthly Life
FROM APOSTOLIC TIMES and to our days all who truly love Christ give veneration to Her Who gave birth to Him, raised Him and protected Him in the days of His youth. If God the Father chose Her, God the Holy Spirit descended upon Her, and God the Son dwelt in Her, submitted to Her in the days of His youth, was concerned for Her when hanging on the Cross— then should not everyone who confesses the Holy Trinity venerate Her?
Still in the days of Her earthly life the friends of Christ, the Apostles, manifested a great concern and devotion for the Mother of the Lord, especially the Evangelist John the Theologian, who, fulfilling the will of Her Divine Son, took Her to himself and took care for Her as for a mother from the time when the Lord uttered to him from the Cross the words: “Behold thy mother.”
The Evangelist Luke painted a number of images of Her, some together with the Pre-eternal Child, others without Him. When he brought them and showed them to the Most Holy Virgin, She approved them and said: “The grace of My Son shall be with them,” and repeated the hymn She had once sung in the house of Elizabeth: “My soul doth magnify the Lord, and My spirit hath rejoiced in God My Savior.”
However, the Virgin Mary during Her earthly life avoided the glory which belonged to her as the Mother of the Lord. She preferred to live in quiet and prepare herself for the departure into eternal life. To the last day of her earthly life she took care to prove worthy of the Kingdom of Her Son and before death she prayed that He might deliver Her soul from the malicious spirits that meet human souls on the way to heaven and strive to seize them so as to take them away with them to Hades. The Lord fulfilled the prayer of His Mother and in the hour of her death Himself came from heaven with a multitude of angels to receive her soul.
Since the Mother of God had also prayed that she might bid farewell to the Apostles, the Lord gathered for her death all the Apostles, except Thomas, and they were brought by an invisible power on that day to Jerusalem from all the ends of the inhabited world, where they were preaching, and they were present at Her blessed translation into eternal life.
The Apostles gave Her most pure body over to burial with sacred hymns, and on the third day they opened the tomb so as to once more venerate the remains of the Mother of God together with the Apostle Thomas, who had arrived then in Jerusalem. But they did not find the body in the tomb and in perplexity they returned to their own place; and then, during their meal, the Mother of God Herself appeared to them in the air, shining with heavenly light, and informed them that her Son had glorified Her body also, and She, resurrected, stood before His Throne. At the same time, She promised to be with them always.
The Apostles greeted the Mother of God with great joy and began to venerate Her not only as the Mother of their beloved Teacher and Lord, but also as their heavenly helper, as a protector of Christians and intercessor for the whole human race before the Righteous Judge. And everywhere the Gospel of Christ was preached, His Most Pure Mother also began to be glorified.

The First Enemies of the Veneration of The Mother of God
THE MORE the faith of Christ spread and the Name of the Saviour of the world was glorified on earth, and together with Him also She Who was vouchsafed to be the Mother of the God-Man,—the more did the hatred of the enemies of Christ increase towards Her. Mary was the Mother of Jesus. She manifested a hitherto unheard-of example of purity and righteousness, and furthermore, now departed from this life, She was a mighty support for Christians, even though invisible to bodily eyes. Therefore all who hated Jesus Christ and did not believe in Him, who did not understand His teaching, or to be more precise, did not wish to understand as the Church under stood, who wished to replace the preaching of Christ with their own human reasoning’s—all of these transferred their hatred for Christ, for the Gospel and the Church, to the Most Pure Virgin Mary. They wished to belittle the Mother, so as thereby to destroy faith also in Her Son, to create a false picture of Her among men in order to have the opportunity to rebuild the whole Christian teaching on a different foundation. In the womb of Mary, God and man were joined. She was the One Who served as it were as the ladder for the Son of God, Who descended from heaven. To strike a blow at Her veneration means to strike Christianity at the root, to destroy it in its very foundation.
And the very beginning of Her heavenly glory was marked on earth by an outburst of malice and hatred toward Her by unbelievers. When, after Her holy repose, the Apostles were carrying Her body for burial in Gethsemane, to the place chosen by her, John the Theologian went ahead carrying the branch from paradise which the Archangel Gabriel had brought to the Holy Virgin three days before this when he came from heaven to announce to Her Her approaching departure to the heavenly mansions.
“When Israel went out of Egypt, and the house of Jacob from among a barbarous people,” chanted St. Peter from Psalm 113; “Alleluia,” sang the whole assembly of the Apostles together with their disciples, as for example, Dionysius the Areopagite, who likewise had been miraculously transported at that time to Jerusalem. And while this sacred hymn was being sung, which was called by the Jews the “Great Alleluia,” that is, the great “Praise ye the Lord,” one Jewish priest, Athonius, leaped up to the bier and wished to overturn it and throw to the ground the body of the Mother of God.
The brazenness of Athonius was immediately punished: the Archangel Michael with an invisible sword cut off his hand, which remained hanging on the bier. The thunderstruck Athonius, experiencing a tormenting pain, in awareness of his sin, turned in prayer to the Jesus Whom he had hated up to then and he was immediately healed. He did not delay in accepting Christianity and confessing it before his former co-religionists, for which he received from them a martyr’s death. Thus, the attempt to offend the honor of the Mother of God served for Her greater glorification.
The enemies of Christ resolved not to manifest their lack of veneration for the body of the Most Pure One further at that time by crude violence, but their malice did not cease. Seeing that Christianity was spreading everywhere, they began to spread various vile slanders about Christians. They did not spare the name of the Mother of Christ either, and they invented the story that Jesus of Nazareth had come from a base and immoral environment, and that His Mother had associated with a certain Roman soldier.
But here the lie was too evident for this fiction to attract serious attention. The whole family of Joseph the Betrothed and Mary Herself were known well by the inhabitants of Nazareth and the surrounding countryside in their time. Whence hath this man this wisdom and these mighty works? Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary, and his brethren: James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? (Matt. 13:54-55; Mark 6:3; Luke 4:22.) So said His fellow- countrymen in Nazareth when Christ revealed before them in the synagogue His other-worldly wisdom. In small towns the family matters of everyone are well known; very strict watch was kept then over the purity of married life.
Would people really have behaved with respect towards Jesus, called Him to preach in the synagogue, if He had been born of illegitimate cohabitation? To Mary the law of Moses would have been applied, which commanded that such persons be stoned to death; and the Pharisees would have taken the opportunity many times to reproach Christ for the conduct of His Mother. But just the contrary was the case. Mary enjoyed great respect; at Cana She was an honored guest at the wedding, and even when Her Son was condemned, no one allowed himself to ridicule or censure His Mother.

continued on next post...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

continued from previous post...

Attempts of Jews and Heretics to Dishonor The Ever-Virginity of Mary
THE JEWISH slanderers soon became convinced that it was almost impossible to dishonor the Mother of Jesus, and on the basis of the information which they themselves possessed it was much easier to prove Her praiseworthy life. Therefore, they abandoned this slander of theirs, which had already been taken up by the pagans (Origen, Against Celcus, I), and strove to prove at least that Mary was not a virgin when She gave birth to Christ. They even said that the prophecies concerning the birth-giving of the Messiah by a virgin had never existed, and that therefore it was entirely in vain that Christians thought to exalt Jesus by the fact that a prophecy was supposedly being fulfilled in Him.
Jewish translators were found (Aquila, Symmachus, Theodotion) who made new translations of the Old Testament into Greek and in these translated the well-known prophecy of Isaiah (Is. 7:14) thus: Behold, a young woman will conceive. They asserted that the Hebrew word Aalma signified “young woman” and not “virgin,” as stood in the sacred translation of the Seventy Translators [Septuagint] where this passage had been translated “Behold, a virgin shall conceive.
By this new translation they wished to prove that Christians, on the basis of an incorrect translation of the word Aalma, thought to ascribe to Mary something completely impossible—a birth-giving without a man, while in actuality the birth of Christ was not in the least different from other human births.
However, the evil intention of the new translators was clearly revealed because by a comparison of various passages in the Bible it became clear that the word Aalma signified precisely “virgin.” And indeed, not only the Jews, but even the pagans, on the basis of their own traditions and various prophecies, expected the Redeemer of the world to be born of a Virgin. The Gospels clearly stated that the Lord Jesus had been born of a Virgin.
How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? asked Mary, Who had given a vow of virginity, of the Archangel Gabriel, who had informed Her of the birth of Christ.
And the Angel replied: The Holy Spirit shall come upon Thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow Thee; wherefore also that which is to be born shall be holy, and shall be called the Son of God (Luke 1:34-35).
Later the Angel appeared also to righteous Joseph, who had wished to put away Mary from his house, seeing that She had conceived without entering into conjugal cohabitation with him. To Joseph the Archangel Gabriel said: Fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is begotten in Her is of the Holy Spirit, and he reminded him of the prophecy of Isaiah that a virgin would conceive (Matt. 1:18-25).
The rod of Aaron that budded, the rock torn away from the mountain without hands, seen by Nebuchadnezzar in a dream and interpreted by the Prophet Daniel, the closed gate seen by the Prophet Ezekiel, and much else in the Old Testament, prefigured the birth-giving of the Virgin. Just as Adam had been created by the Word of God from the unworked and virgin earth, so also the Word of God created flesh for Himself from a virgin womb when the Son of God became the new Adam so as to correct the fall into sin of the first Adam (St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Book III).
The seedless birth of Christ can and could be denied only by those who deny the Gospel, whereas the Church of Christ from of old confesses Christ “incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary.” But the birth of God from the Ever-Virgin was a stumbling stone for those who wished to call themselves Christians but did not wish to humble themselves in mind and be zealous for purity of life. The pure life of Mary was a reproach for those who were impure also in their thoughts. So as to show themselves Christians, they did not dare to deny that Christ was born of a Virgin, but they began to affirm that Mary remained a virgin only until she brought forth her first-born son, Jesus (Matt.1:25).
“After the birth of Jesus,” said the false teacher Helvidius in the 4th century, and likewise many others before and after him, “Mary entered into conjugal life with Joseph and had from him children, who are called in the Gospels the brothers and sisters of Christ.” But the word “until” does not signify that Mary remained a virgin only until a certain time. The word “until” and words similar to it often signify eternity. In the Sacred Scripture it is said of Christ: In His days shall shine forth righteousness and an abundance of peace, until the moon be taken away (Ps. 71:7), but this does not mean that when there shall no longer be a moon at the end of the world, God’s righteousness shall no longer be; precisely then, rather, will it triumph. And what does it mean when it says: For He must reign until He hath put all enemies under His feet? (I Cor. 15:25). Is the Lord then to reign only for the time until His enemies shall be under His feet?! And David, in the fourth Psalm of the Ascents says: As the eyes of the handmaid look unto the hands of her mistress, so do our eyes look unto the Lord our God, until He take pity on us (Ps. 122:2). Thus, the Prophet will have his eyes toward the Lord until he obtains mercy, but having obtained it he will direct them to the earth? (Blessed Jerome, “On the Ever-Virginity of Blessed Mary.&#8221 The Savoir in the Gospel says to the Apostles (Matt. 28:20): Lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Thus, after the end of the world the Lord will step away from His disciples, and then, when they shall judge the twelve tribes of Israel upon twelve thrones, they will not have the promised communion with the Lord? (Blessed Jerome, op. cit.)
It is likewise incorrect to think that the brothers and sisters of Christ were the children of His Most Holy Mother. The names of “brother” and “sister” have several distinct meanings. Signifying a certain kinship between people or their spiritual closeness, these words are used sometimes in a broader, and sometimes in a narrower sense. In any case, people are called brothers or sisters if they have a common father and mother, or only a common father or mother; or even if they have different fathers and mothers, if their parents later (having become widowed) have entered into marriage (stepbrothers); or if their parents are bound by close degrees of kinship.
In the Gospel it can nowhere be seen that those who are called there the brothers of Jesus were or were considered the children of His Mother. On the contrary, it was known that James and others were the sons of Joseph, the Betrothed of Mary, who was a widower with children from his first wife. (St. Epiphanius of Cyprus, Panarion, 78.) Likewise, the sister of His Mother, Mary the wife of Cleopas, who stood with Her at the Cross of the Lord (John 19:25), also had children, who in view of such close kinship with full right could also be called brothers of the Lord. That the so-called brothers and sisters of the Lord were not the children of His Mother is clearly evident from the fact that the Lord entrusted His Mother before His death to His beloved disciple John. Why should He do this if She had other children besides Him? They themselves would have taken care of Her. The sons of Joseph, the supposed father of Jesus, did not consider themselves obliged to take care of one they regarded as their stepmother, or at least did not have for Her such love as blood children have for parents, and such as the adopted John had for Her.
Thus, a careful study of Sacred Scripture reveals with complete clarity the insubstantiality of the objections against the Ever-Virginity of Mary and puts to shame those who teach differently.

Forgive me...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Attempts of Jews and Heretics to Dishonor The Ever-Virginity of Mary

Well, I suppose I must be a "heretic" along with the Jews. LORD, save me!!!!

 

[IamAdopted]

continued from previous post...

Attempts of Jews and Heretics to Dishonor The Ever-Virginity of Mary
THE JEWISH slanderers soon became convinced that it was almost impossible to dishonor the Mother of Jesus, and on the basis of the information which they themselves possessed it was much easier to prove Her praiseworthy life. Therefore, they abandoned this slander of theirs, which had already been taken up by the pagans (Origen, Against Celcus, I), and strove to prove at least that Mary was not a virgin when She gave birth to Christ. They even said that the prophecies concerning the birth-giving of the Messiah by a virgin had never existed, and that therefore it was entirely in vain that Christians thought to exalt Jesus by the fact that a prophecy was supposedly being fulfilled in Him.
Jewish translators were found (Aquila, Symmachus, Theodotion) who made new translations of the Old Testament into Greek and in these translated the well-known prophecy of Isaiah (Is. 7:14) thus: Behold, a young woman will conceive. They asserted that the Hebrew word Aalma signified “young woman” and not “virgin,” as stood in the sacred translation of the Seventy Translators [Septuagint] where this passage had been translated “Behold, a virgin shall conceive.
By this new translation they wished to prove that Christians, on the basis of an incorrect translation of the word Aalma, thought to ascribe to Mary something completely impossible—a birth-giving without a man, while in actuality the birth of Christ was not in the least different from other human births.
However, the evil intention of the new translators was clearly revealed because by a comparison of various passages in the Bible it became clear that the word Aalma signified precisely “virgin.” And indeed, not only the Jews, but even the pagans, on the basis of their own traditions and various prophecies, expected the Redeemer of the world to be born of a Virgin. The Gospels clearly stated that the Lord Jesus had been born of a Virgin.
How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? asked Mary, Who had given a vow of virginity, of the Archangel Gabriel, who had informed Her of the birth of Christ.
And the Angel replied: The Holy Spirit shall come upon Thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow Thee; wherefore also that which is to be born shall be holy, and shall be called the Son of God (Luke 1:34-35).
Later the Angel appeared also to righteous Joseph, who had wished to put away Mary from his house, seeing that She had conceived without entering into conjugal cohabitation with him. To Joseph the Archangel Gabriel said: Fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is begotten in Her is of the Holy Spirit, and he reminded him of the prophecy of Isaiah that a virgin would conceive (Matt. 1:18-25).
The rod of Aaron that budded, the rock torn away from the mountain without hands, seen by Nebuchadnezzar in a dream and interpreted by the Prophet Daniel, the closed gate seen by the Prophet Ezekiel, and much else in the Old Testament, prefigured the birth-giving of the Virgin. Just as Adam had been created by the Word of God from the unworked and virgin earth, so also the Word of God created flesh for Himself from a virgin womb when the Son of God became the new Adam so as to correct the fall into sin of the first Adam (St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Book III).
The seedless birth of Christ can and could be denied only by those who deny the Gospel, whereas the Church of Christ from of old confesses Christ “incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary.” But the birth of God from the Ever-Virgin was a stumbling stone for those who wished to call themselves Christians but did not wish to humble themselves in mind and be zealous for purity of life. The pure life of Mary was a reproach for those who were impure also in their thoughts. So as to show themselves Christians, they did not dare to deny that Christ was born of a Virgin, but they began to affirm that Mary remained a virgin only until she brought forth her first-born son, Jesus (Matt.1:25).
“After the birth of Jesus,” said the false teacher Helvidius in the 4th century, and likewise many others before and after him, “Mary entered into conjugal life with Joseph and had from him children, who are called in the Gospels the brothers and sisters of Christ.” But the word “until” does not signify that Mary remained a virgin only until a certain time. The word “until” and words similar to it often signify eternity. In the Sacred Scripture it is said of Christ: In His days shall shine forth righteousness and an abundance of peace, until the moon be taken away (Ps. 71:7), but this does not mean that when there shall no longer be a moon at the end of the world, God’s righteousness shall no longer be; precisely then, rather, will it triumph. And what does it mean when it says: For He must reign until He hath put all enemies under His feet? (I Cor. 15:25). Is the Lord then to reign only for the time until His enemies shall be under His feet?! And David, in the fourth Psalm of the Ascents says: As the eyes of the handmaid look unto the hands of her mistress, so do our eyes look unto the Lord our God, until He take pity on us (Ps. 122:2). Thus, the Prophet will have his eyes toward the Lord until he obtains mercy, but having obtained it he will direct them to the earth? (Blessed Jerome, “On the Ever-Virginity of Blessed Mary.&#8221 The Savoir in the Gospel says to the Apostles (Matt. 28:20): Lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Thus, after the end of the world the Lord will step away from His disciples, and then, when they shall judge the twelve tribes of Israel upon twelve thrones, they will not have the promised communion with the Lord? (Blessed Jerome, op. cit.)
It is likewise incorrect to think that the brothers and sisters of Christ were the children of His Most Holy Mother. The names of “brother” and “sister” have several distinct meanings. Signifying a certain kinship between people or their spiritual closeness, these words are used sometimes in a broader, and sometimes in a narrower sense. In any case, people are called brothers or sisters if they have a common father and mother, or only a common father or mother; or even if they have different fathers and mothers, if their parents later (having become widowed) have entered into marriage (stepbrothers); or if their parents are bound by close degrees of kinship.
In the Gospel it can nowhere be seen that those who are called there the brothers of Jesus were or were considered the children of His Mother. On the contrary, it was known that James and others were the sons of Joseph, the Betrothed of Mary, who was a widower with children from his first wife. (St. Epiphanius of Cyprus, Panarion, 78.) Likewise, the sister of His Mother, Mary the wife of Cleopas, who stood with Her at the Cross of the Lord (John 19:25), also had children, who in view of such close kinship with full right could also be called brothers of the Lord. That the so-called brothers and sisters of the Lord were not the children of His Mother is clearly evident from the fact that the Lord entrusted His Mother before His death to His beloved disciple John. Why should He do this if She had other children besides Him? They themselves would have taken care of Her. The sons of Joseph, the supposed father of Jesus, did not consider themselves obliged to take care of one they regarded as their stepmother, or at least did not have for Her such love as blood children have for parents, and such as the adopted John had for Her.
Thus, a careful study of Sacred Scripture reveals with complete clarity the insubstantiality of the objections against the Ever-Virginity of Mary and puts to shame those who teach differently.

Forgive me...

so saith the pope..In whom I find nothing of value.. For only in scripture can we know the truth and the truth that will set us free...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Hi. Well, I am an O-C in the Christ and that doctrine is not important to me.

You claim to be an OC? Would they claim you as well?

Forgive me...

 

[Asinner]

. For only in scripture can we know the truth and the truth that will set us free...

The Truth is in Jesus Christ. He is not limited in how He chooses to reveal Himself, is He?

Love,
Christina

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

so saith the pope..In whom I find nothing of value.. For only in scripture can we know the truth and the truth that will set us free...

The Pope?

We don't have a Pope.

I belong to The Church of Antioch not Rome.

Perhaps your confused that Orthodox and Catholic are one and the same?

Forgive me...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You claim to be an OC? Would they claim you as well?

Forgive me...

My only claim is in the Lord Jesus and the LORD His Father.

(Young) Acts 2:25 for David saith in regard to him: I foresaw the Lord always before me--because He is on my right hand--that I may not be moved;

 

[Asinner]

Well, I suppose I must be a "heretic" along with the Jews. LORD, save me!!!!

*Sarcasm noted*

 

[IamAdopted]

God has always chosen to reveal Himself in His word.. His word even became flesh and dwelt among us.. God is not a man that He should lie.. The ark of the covenant was Gods presence for the Isrealites... Now His presence came in the form of His only Begotten Son.. Immanuel.. God is with us...