Birth Control

[MrsJoy]

Christians and Jews through out history have always interpreted God's commandments concerning children and condemnation of Onan to be condemnations of contraception in general. It isn't that you can't find it in the Bible, its that you have changed your interpretation and have become blind to it.

error.
the point was not the act, the point is the intent.
it was not that he did not sleep with her, it was that he disobeyed a direct command from God to give her children in his brothers name.

 

[Lumen]

using wisdom and science and planning is not saying no to God.
it is using wisdom.
we are told to do such things.
again, bc is not addressed in scripture.
i love that many have thrown ideas out there w/ out scripture to back it up.

And whatever scripture is used to supposedly back up their claims is a twisted interpetation.

 

[MrsJoy]

It helps your rationalization to think so, but the real reason has always been theological. Roman and Greek medicine was more advanced than many today give it credit for, and bishops of the early Church made distictions between abortion and contraception. St. John Chrysostom (4th century), for example, gave homilies on the sin of preventing the creation of life through contraceptive practices.

wow.
a man made a rule.
and therefore it is equivalent with Scripture.
I think not.

That is a very low and narrow view of marriage.




It is God who opens and closes the womb. If a couple is sterile, they can continue to have relations and a miracle may happen, as has happened many times in the past.

And God is bigger than us.
God does open and close the womb, but that is not the only verse in the bible as so many stand on it with such vehemence, one would think so.
the point of said verse is not "do not use bc".
it is the sovernity of God.
and HE is soveign.

 

[icedtea]

I can't memorize verses well but I think there is one where a wife calls upon God because she is barren, in fact, more than one instance.
Or was that just for biblical times?

 

[MrsJoy]

The purpose of marriage is a partnership between a man and a woman. I have to disagree with the idea that marriage is only fo rthe purpose of having children...elderly people marry after the death of a spouse. Obviuosly they cannot have children.

the picture of marriage is actually the picture of Christ and the church.
THIS is the picture God's Word gives...

 

[MrsJoy]

what I meant by this, is people are trying to to mold the Bible to fit modern secular society. i can't go back and figure out who said this because it seems that almost everyone here agrees so there is not just one inparticular person.
To repeat to what Lotar and Twincrier (who seems to have a very Orthodox view on this) have been saying, if you don't want to take responsibility of being a parent, then don't have sex.

this is also a VERY UNBIBLICAL stance as we are strictly forbidden from doing such a thing (1 cor 7)

 

[Lumen]

[/SIZE]
wow.
a man made a rule.
and therefore it is equivalent with Scripture.
I think not.

And God is bigger than us.
God does open and close the womb, but that is not the only verse in the bible as so many stand on it with such vehemence, one would think so.
the point of said verse is not "do not use bc".
it is the sovernity of God.
and HE is soveign.

How do you get the idea that God opens and closes the womb? That would mean that he interferes with whether the woman gets pregnant or not. From what I understand of God he doesn't interfere like that.

Any pregnancy is a result of physical conditions, and not because of God.

 

[MrsJoy]

I believe the pill was created so people could have sex outside of marriage and not get pregnant.

go ahead and believe that, and more power to you.
b/c something is abused does not make it wrong.
music is abused: not inherintly wrong.
movies-same.
sex...wow, let's all abstain from this as well as it is abused by the world.

 

[MrsJoy]

You arfalling into the world's way of thinking that pregnancy is some medical problem or disease (unless you planned and wanted it of course) instead of the normal, natural funtion of the body. Reproduction isn't an illness that must be separated for sexual relations. I actually heard someone say on on of those talk shows that there are two kinds of sex, love making and baby making. What a terrible way to disect it.

that time of the month is a "normal function of the body", yet i'm sure you do things to deal with this and help your body to feel better.

 

[catlover]

I can't memorize verses well but I think there is one where a wife calls upon God because she is barren, in fact, more than one instance.
Or was that just for biblical times?

I believe it was a disgrace, during Biblical times, for a woman to not be able to have children.

 

[MrsJoy]

usually it is safe.
My former churchmate had 12, the last 11 at home. She's fine. And about 40 years old.

it is INDEED quite dangerous, more so depending on your personal body.
and, after 40 you CAN Still have a few more...and that is extreamly dangerous.
i've seen this first hand.
not to mention doctors and medical evidence will back this up (not just a personal opinion)

 

[MrsJoy]

That's fantastic.

You're right, God will not force His blessings on us, even though He know what is best where as we don't. We have a free will to chose the second best. Or even the worst.

God is Soverign.
we are not bigger than He is.

There are commands to "be fruitful and multiply" and I know many see that as directed to someone besides them, but that fact remains, throughout the bible it is all pro-procreation, not pro sterility and barrenness.

all the verses that speak of being fruitful and multiplying are given as commands at the creation of the world because the world was not yet inhabited. they were to rememdy this.
it was a specific command for a specific time.
and also, God is pro-life yes, but NOWHERE is sterily and bareness spoken against as a sin. NOWHERE.
it was a CULTURAL thing.

Also, that's quite an eclectic combination of verses you quoted! A couple about how God sent many blessings, including offspring, livestock, health, etc. (note, no commands given! Not to mention, does that mean that all barren, sick, poor, etc. people must be cursed by God???); and then a bunch about totally unrelated commands like refraining from having homosexual sex or sex with animals, etc. I'm surprised you would venture so far out of context to try and support your argument.
quote]Well, homosexuality and beastilaity are also forms of sexual copulation that don't result in procreation, so I think the point is very relevent. Again, you're right, we don't HAVE to accept God's blessings, but what kind of fool wouldn't want God's best, His perfect will?

equating sexual perversions with using bc?
are you quite serious??
I'de take a step back and think that over again.
that is not only abuse of scripture, it is condemning unscripturally at that, God's children.

Birth control isn't fertility, it's infertility.
No I am not "suggesting that couples who don't have kids must love each other less than people who do have kids" I'm suggesting that couples who don't want to have children with each other don't love each other as much as couples who are open and accepting of God's blessings if He chooses to bless them as such.

no, it's using wisdom and science.
again you are assuming that infertilty is a SIN, when it is NOT shown as such in scripture.

 

[MrsJoy]

Like I said, I'd always hated kids. Once I fell in love and married my husband, I wanted to have his child. Its only natural.

mm, not always.

 

[MrsJoy]

The sin of contraception is like most other sins: it is convenient and self-serving. It allows people to maintain a higher devotion to self. Money, time, and other selfish desires.

~calling it sin is adding to God's Word.
nowhere is it shown to be such.
~it CAN be used in such a way.
but to say that everyone who uses it has these motivations is very wrong and incorrect.
unless of course God has let you read everyone's mind.
which I doubt He has.

 

[MrsJoy]

Trust in God and He will not give you more than you can handle.

Openess to children is not an optional part of Christian marriage, it is commanded by God.

scripture never advocateds not using wisdom.
God gave us minds and reasoning for a purpose.
again, we are told that fools go on without planning.

 

[MrsJoy]

It has been established, just some wish to reject what has always been an established point of Christian morality.

where was this established???
and where was it established through God's Word.
i see a lOT OF man's opinion, none of God's Word.

 

[catlover]

that time of the month is a "normal function of the body", yet i'm sure you do things to deal with this and help your body to feel better.

Not only that...pregnancy is not some bliss which always turns out rosy. Many women encounter complications such as gestational diabetics and preeclampsia.

The leading cause of death for women in the good ole' days was child birth!

In some countries, it still is. There is a reason there is a term called:maternal mortality rate.

Maternal mortality rate: The number of maternal deaths related to childbearing divided by the number of live births in that year. http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=4297

 

[MrsJoy]

No no and no bc is not the answer. You don't get pregnant everytime, I've been married six years and only have four kids and two of them are twins.

um yea
get back to me in 20 years

 

[Randombitsofstring]

For those who say God told you to use birth control, I have to ask; Didn't you find it insulting that the creator of the universe specifically asked you to not reproduce offspring? And also, does God always ask you to do things that you already want to do anyhow?

I don’t think it’s insulting for God to want a married couple to wait until they are financially stable before they start bring children into a world when they can not feed or cloth said children. Of if a couple finds themselves in a financial tough spot latter in life to hold off on bringing more children into a family when they are having trouble supporting the ones they have.

 

[SallyNow]

it is INDEED quite dangerous, more so depending on your personal body.
and, after 40 you CAN Still have a few more...and that is extreamly dangerous.
i've seen this first hand.
not to mention doctors and medical evidence will back this up (not just a personal opinion)

I think brings up a good point... there seems to be a lot of anecdotal evidence being brought up, statistical flukes, etc.

For instance, I know many women who had one ortwo or three children in their late twenties and early thirties, and then at around age forty decided to have another, once their oldest children were in school. Does that mean that this is the norm? No. It means that the for some reason, in my community, there was a bit of a baby boom around that time, and many women discovered that at age 40 they were not close to menapause and still had healthy bodies, and could still carry a healthy baby to term.

The same goes for mothers who do not use any form of birth control, not even the rhythm method, and still only have one or two pregancies, or none, or for women who give birth to ten children and never have any serious problems.

And the same even goes for the rare occurances of serious side effects from BC pills. All medication carries risks of side effects, from painkillers to antacids. Birth control pills are not particularly dangerous when compared to other medications. Yes, you may be hear of a woman who does suffer a serious side effect, and that is tragic. But it would be no different than a side effect from migraine medication.

I'm sick of those with no medical experience saying that doctors are wrong, wrong wrong, and lying, and wanting to somehow kill little babies, and are spreading lies and trying tp poision women with birth control pills. They are not. They have the real information. The sites are often propaganda and nothing more, with little actual scientific evidence to back up their claims... or, a little bit of scientific evidence, but put in the wrong context.