Birth Control

[tulc]

Removing one of these purposes, is a rejection of God's gifts and an improper use of what He has given to us.

I'm sorry you think that.
tulc(I will however still support you as our Imperator in 2008!)

 

[catlover]

St. Augustine had zero influence on the formation of the Orthodox understanding of marriage and sexuallity.

Read St. John Chrysostom's book On Marriage and the Family Life.


The purpose of Marriage is salvation. It is the uniting of two into one, and the martyrdom of our self will to the will of the other. This first and foremost is the purpose of marriage.

Sex bonds us, tames our passions and provides us with children, the physical manifestation of the union that took place in marriage. Removing one of these purposes, is a rejection of God's gifts and an improper use of what He has given to us.

The purpose of marriage is a partnership between a man and a woman. I have to disagree with the idea that marriage is only fo rthe purpose of having children...elderly people marry after the death of a spouse. Obviuosly they cannot have children.

 

[icedtea]

No, its not only for that purpose. Older people have wonderful marriages, they are unable to have children and thats okay.

 

[Lotar]

The purpose of marriage is a partnership between a man and a woman. I have to disagree with the idea that marriage is only fo rthe purpose of having children...elderly people marry after the death of a spouse. Obviuosly they cannot have children.

I never said the only purpose for marriage was to have children. To be accurate, I never even mentioned children in my explaination of the purpose of marriage.

Marriage is not a partnership, it is a union where two become one.

 

[rainbowbright]

Excuse me, but WHO here ever said this? Could you please quote whoever it was instead of generalizing?

what I meant by this, is people are trying to to mold the Bible to fit modern secular society. i can't go back and figure out who said this because it seems that almost everyone here agrees so there is not just one inparticular person.
To repeat to what Lotar and Twincrier (who seems to have a very Orthodox view on this) have been saying, if you don't want to take responsibility of being a parent, then don't have sex.

 

[Lotar]

if you don't want to take responsibility of being a parent, then don't have sex.

Here, Here!!!

 

[WalkingforHim]

BC is fine and perfectly moral. There isn't a rational reason as to why use of it would be a sin, or immoral.

 

[WalkingforHim]

if you don't want to take responsibility of being a parent, then don't have sex.

Or you could use BC. Your arguement assumes procreation is the only reason for sex, which it obviously isn't.

It's completely backwards, and even dangerous, to think that one should have a child everytime they have sex.

 

[icedtea]

I believe the pill was created so people could have sex outside of marriage and not get pregnant.

 

[WalkingforHim]

I believe the pill was created so people could have sex outside of marriage and not get pregnant.

It certainly helps those who do that do it without getting pregnant. Now personally, I don't see non-married people taking precautions against out of wedlock births to be a bad thing. We don't need more single parents, and there are currently more kids in orphanges now than will ever be adopted, so we don't need any more kids being given up for adoption.

Though they are plenty of married people who use BC as well. And many women take the pill for hormonal reasons completely seperated from sex.

 

[fuzzymel]

Well if birth control was banned I would be putting the children up for adoption because I would not be a good mother but at least I can admit it.

 

[Ino]

That is a very low and narrow view of marriage.
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Who had a narrow view of marriage and women was this man:

I fail to see what use woman can be to man," Augustine said, "if one excludes the function of bearing children."

That is the mind set which got us where we are today with the prohibition of birth control.

Well that quote certainly explains an opinion or two.

 

[elsbeth]

Tough subject. On one hand, women have been giving birth without birth control for thousands of years and never felt like slaves; in fact, many women wish they could get pregnant (hopefully they are married women).

C'mon! I'm sure in the "thousands of years" you mention that MANY women felt basically like slaves- either to their families or to their biology or both. One of my Grandmothers had 9 children, my mother-in-law had 6. They weren't the happiest women I've known. Women used to wear out early because of a pregnancy all the time. They died in childbirth more too. Too many pregnancies too close isn't healthy.
I got married late- had 2 kids in 3 yrs with the last one at 38. I was worn out physically (2 C-sections besides the pregnancies) and I just didn't want any more children. We would have had a tremendously hard time financially with the cost of the doctors and hospital to have another. My husband had a vasectomy THANK THE LORD.

 

[tulc]

I believe the pill was created so people could have sex outside of marriage and not get pregnant.

...uhmmm also so people who ARE married can have sex and not get pregnant.
tulc(not having more kids, concentrating on grandkids now!)

 

[TwinCrier]

...Oh, I trust God to decide when I have offspring, just like I trust God to decide when I contract the flu. That doesn't prevent me from getting vaccinated, though....

This is always brought up regarding bc. Do we leave everything else in God's hands? I don't think so. Do we take antibiotics and other medicines? Do we get flu shots and other vaccinations? Get mammograms? X-rays? Cat scans?...

You arfalling into the world's way of thinking that pregnancy is some medical problem or disease (unless you planned and wanted it of course) instead of the normal, natural funtion of the body. Reproduction isn't an illness that must be separated for sexual relations. I actually heard someone say on on of those talk shows that there are two kinds of sex, love making and baby making. What a terrible way to disect it.

 

[catlover]

You arfalling into the world's way of thinking that pregnancy is some medical problem or disease (unless you planned and wanted it of course) instead of the normal, natural funtion of the body. Reproduction isn't an illness that must be separated for sexual relations. I actually heard someone say on on of those talk shows that there are two kinds of sex, love making and baby making. What a terrible way to disect it.

Getting pregnant over and over again, IS dangerous to a woman's body.

Childbirth is not without risk either...also some women experience permanent incontinence after the birth of a child and the inability to control their bowels.



http://www.continence-foundation.org.uk/in-depth/baby-bladder-bowels.php#e

http://www.prevention.com/article/0,5778,s1-1-93-178-2738-1,00.html
So for you to claim reproduction is harmless without any risk is false.

 

[icedtea]

usually it is safe.
My former churchmate had 12, the last 11 at home. She's fine. And about 40 years old.

 

[tulc]

Reproduction isn't an illness that must be separated for sexual relations.

Nor is it a consequence of sexual relations any more. Why should that be considered a sin?
tulc(was told he isn't REALLY pro-life because he believes in BC)

 

[Lotar]

We have quite a few families with 5+ children at my parish. Usually the ones with many children are the ones who are most healthy. Chasing around 8 children will keep just about anyone in good shape.

 

[TwinCrier]

I can't help but wonder if this question was more of a suggestion that people who use birth control must automatically be pro-abortion.
Just because some people don't want kids, that doesn't mean they automatically support abortion or that they would have one. This might shock you, but I (the child-free freak) have actually volunteered extensively in anti-abortion charities and programs.

That's fantastic.

Actually you're confusing sin with free will.
For you perhaps they are. For many people in Bible times they were. But note, no where does God command us to accept this "blessing", nor does He force them on us. Blessings are freely given and received. It is not a sin to refuse a blessing. It is a sin to go against a command. But again, there is no command in the Bible that says we are to refrain from using birth control.

You're right, God will not force His blessings on us, even though He know what is best where as we don't. We have a free will to chose the second best. Or even the worst. There are commands to "be fruitful and multiply" and I know many see that as directed to someone besides them, but that fact remains, throughout the bible it is all pro-procreation, not pro sterility and barrenness.

Also, that's quite an eclectic combination of verses you quoted! A couple about how God sent many blessings, including offspring, livestock, health, etc. (note, no commands given! Not to mention, does that mean that all barren, sick, poor, etc. people must be cursed by God???); and then a bunch about totally unrelated commands like refraining from having homosexual sex or sex with animals, etc. I'm surprised you would venture so far out of context to try and support your argument.
quote]Well, homosexuality and beastilaity are also forms of sexual copulation that don't result in procreation, so I think the point is very relevent. Again, you're right, we don't HAVE to accept God's blessings, but what kind of fool wouldn't want God's best, His perfect will?

This one gave me a laugh. What does fertility have to do with love between a husband and wife?

Are you suggesting that couples who don't have kids must love each other less than people who do have kids?

Birth control isn't fertility, it's infertility.
No I am not "suggesting that couples who don't have kids must love each other less than people who do have kids" I'm suggesting that couples who don't want to have children with each other don't love each other as much as couples who are open and accepting of God's blessings if He chooses to bless them as such.