Earth Outer Core is Spiritual

[dad]

Assuming the earth was created, there is no need to assume the center of the earth is like the current science models, namely, hot.

" iron at the core was thought to change into a new high pressure crystal form.

But they did not find evidence of that expected transition and published their findings in the current issue of the journal Nature.

The researchers used a hydrogen gas gun to fire a metal-tipped plastic projectile onto a stationary plate of iron to recreate and exceed the high pressure found inside the core.

As the projectile hit the iron, a shockwave was generated and the researchers used this to determine the iron's physical characteristics such as its density and crystal structure.

Scientists are still unsure of what exactly the Earth's core is made from. Meteorites, which scientists presume are floating remnants of cores from broken planets, are mostly made from iron or a mixture of iron and nickel."
www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1350587.htm


I would propose that the outer core of the earth is not liquid after all, but spiritual. Yes, hell.

That could be why the waves behave differently, as they would in liquid, way down there.

That means there is no need for the core to be hot at all, that I think is an idea that comes from a non creation assumption of the orgin of the earth.

I actually think this could be the case, that the center of the earth is cool, and unlike the standard teachings.

The big bang model, and similar are a large part of the reason the earth is claimed to be hot in the center. That never happened. Time for a fresh perspective.

 

[theFijian]

Nice. I'd like to hear what all the Creationists say about dad's theory, do you support his assertion?

 

[busterdog]

Nice. I'd like to hear what all the Creationists say about dad's theory, do you support his assertion?

Not sure. I would say that the criticism of the conventional theory is fine. I seriously doubt science knows much about the composition and characteristics of the earth core. I am not sure how much the OP implies knowledge of the physical characteristics of the core. If it did, and to the extent that it does, I would be dubious of that. But, sheol/hell has to be somewhere, why not in the center of the earth, where the Bible says it is. As for the core being "cool", I don't see a theological rational for this, nor does it seem that the science is complete on this question.

I do note that our enemy seems to spend time walking upon the "stones of fire."

That would meet the criteria of being in the "heart of the earth" and, at its center, would be a "bottomless."

Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

What ideas are discussed in the TE camp? Is there a hell? does it have an identifiable location? What does Jesus spending three days in the heart of the earth mean?

Here is a possible related idea. Jack Hibbs on realradio.com and JR Church on prophecyinthenews.com have recently been teaching about Mount Hermon, sometimes referred to as Baal Hermon. This is in what was known as Cesari Phillippi, near the home of King Og and Bashan, traditionally associated with the occult. It was here that Jesus said of his Church, "The gates of hell shall not prevail against it." There is a cave in Mt. Hermon traditionally known as the "gates of hell." One rabbinical teaching is that the Nephilim entered earth through this area. Pictures of this area will also show numerous niches in the side of the mountain, which had been occupied by idols (suggesting a basis for a merely metaphorical reference to the "gates of hell," which is reasonable, but not completely satisfactory.) This was also the territory of the tribe of Dan, of which the prophecies of Jacob were ominous and some associate the AC with the tribe of Dan.

While I am not clear on a straight line from the OP to the "gates of hell." It is, however, very interesting to see geography and perhaps geology merge with this particular ideas. As YEC, I think there is a literal truth and a literal aspect to the association beteween physical features of the earth and these spiritual realities. But, there exact mechanism is pretty murky.

 

[Mallon]

Hm. If the center of the earth is indeed hell, it should be possible to divide the volume of the core by the volume of the average human and come up with an estimate as to how many humans could possibly fit in hell. Then we could subtract that number from the estimated number of all humans that have ever lived and come up with an educated guess as to how many people there will be in heaven!
Who's first? I've got to take off for the lab.

 

[busterdog]

Hm. If the center of the earth is indeed hell, it should be possible to divide the volume of the core by the volume of the average human and come up with an estimate as to how many humans could possibly fit in hell. Then we could subtract that number from the estimated number of all humans that have ever lived and come up with an educated guess as to how many people there will be in heaven!
Who's first? I've got to take off for the lab.

So, the body of Jesus for the YEC would have to have left the tomb of Joseph of Arimethea and travelled to the center of the earth and then come back?

I have never heard of such a proposition. I am not sure why you try to use it here. Has anyone actually suggested the same?

Lets also be absurd and say that if Jesus was really resurrected and talked with his disciples, there must be archeological evidence of Wile E Coyote style holes in the walls of rooms that he entered without using door, as is taught of his post-resurrection appearnces.



The Bible clearly teaches that we return to the earth as dust, ie, part of the crust.

 

[shernren]

Is hell a physical location? Do souls (if "souls" are indeed the best handle by which we should describe the afterlife) have physical existence?

 

[busterdog]

Is hell a physical location? Do souls (if "souls" are indeed the best handle by which we should describe the afterlife) have physical existence?

Good questions. Seems to me the OP breaks down into two parts:

1. What is the core of the earth like? And there we probably part company.

2. Where the heck is hell? We have no physical evidence of anything (unless you count the Art Bell story of the microphone in the Russian deep earth drilling. ). What do we make of this void in our understanding and the sparse quality of scriptural comment on such topics?

 

[theFijian]

Quite frankly, this kind of nonsense is a very good reason why creationism is a laughing stock. That anyone takes any of this seriously makes me wonder if some folk actually live in the real world.

Well quite. This assertion would also make Hell not a lake of fire, but a rather cool place, wouldn't it?

 

[rmwilliamsll]

We have no physical evidence of anything

that is not true. there is lots of evidence and data from echo soundings and seismic reflection.

other techniques such as:
"Geophysicists can also make maps of other physical properties that rocks show over an area. Gravitational pull, magnetic field strength, electrical conductivity, radioactivity, and spectral reflectance are all properties that may be used to detect particular rock formations of economic or geologic interest, even if they are buried below the surface."
from: http://www.seismo.unr.edu/ftp/pub/louie/class/100/interior.html

but to say we have no data, therefore the theory that hell exists in the core of the earth is scientifically entertainable, is simply and completely wrong.

 

[theFijian]

2. Where the heck is hell? We have no physical evidence of anything (unless you count the Art Bell story of the microphone in the Russian deep earth drilling. ). What do we make of this void in our understanding and the sparse quality of scriptural comment on such topics?

At time like this it's often useful to refer to the creeds and confessions of the church. I subscribe to the WCF take on Hell. Hell is a spiritual place we are told and doesn't relate to any physical location. At death the body of believer and non-believer alike go to the grave and see corruption. The souls of believer go to be with the Lord and the souls of sinners are cast into Hell.

At the Judgement day when the Heavens and the Earth are made anew our bodies will be reunited with our souls and only then will Hell, and indeed Heaven, have physical location to my mind.

In short, we aren't told where Hell is and to speculate on it is a pointless and vain triviality.

 

[Parmenio]

I really, really, like, really thought humanity was past the point of thinking that Hell is underground.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

I really, really, like, really thought humanity was past the point of thinking that Hell is underground.

search the forum's past threads, we have had genuine geocentrics and at least one hollow earther hang around here for a little while in the not too distant past. and vigorously defend their cosmology from the Scriptures. I don't think there has been a flat earther here but i have engaged with them elsewhere online. the viewpoint that hell physically exists in the center of the earth is, imho, not as odd as those views.

 

[busterdog]

I really, really, like, really thought humanity was past the point of thinking that Hell is underground.

Why is this such a big deal? We all know that this is a mysterious subject with no clear answer from any side. Why would it be a question of maturity or realism?

I can't even figure out why the TEs even care. Evolution, I can understand. Why does this question even matter to a TE cosmology?

 

[rmwilliamsll]

Why is this such a big deal? We all know that this is a mysterious subject with no clear answer from any side. Why would it be a question of maturity or realism?

I can't even figure out why the TEs even care. Evolution, I can understand. Why does this question even matter to a TE cosmology?

The earth is not flat.
The sun, planets do not revolve around the earth.
The earth is not hollow, with an opening in the north pole where spirits go into the earth, where both heaven and hell are physically located.
Hell is not in the center of the earth's core.
The earth is not 6000 years old.
God did not miraculously create kinds de novo, ex nihilo. there is no "kind" barrier to evolutionary common descent.
Black African slavery is not justified by the Hametic verses.

Yet everyone of these principles can be and has been justified in terms of the Scriptures. And the error in supporting each one of these wrong ideas is from the same root cause, an improper hermeneutic. A hermeneutic which fundamentally address the Scriptures as written to modern 19thC people, whose common sense and modern science and historical thinking are the context for interpretation. Contrary to this mistaken hermeneutic is the proper grammatical-historical one, that believes the Scriptures are addressed to their first readers (hearers) and are written "for" us, not "to" us, thus it is their context-social, linguistic, protoscientific, etc that has to be understood as surrounding Scripture, not ours. This context is from the POV of a naive realist, untrained in modern science, but throughly conversant with the theology of his day, written in the language of appearances, not modern scientific terminology. Furthermore interpretation and exegesis must be done with one eye watching history as people engage and uncover the meanings of the text. To neglect this fundamental hermeneutic is to end up believing one of the principles listed above and thus bring derision onto the faith as Augustine said, if you are mistaken about what the unbeliever knows, then he will not trust you on the topics he knows nothing about.

 

[Parmenio]

Because there is 0 evidence for Hell being in the center of the earth as opposed to the voluminous evidence that something physical is there, that leaves no room for people to be burning. It's true, we're still investigating exactly what is in the center of the earth, but if you look at the evidence, it's clear, it isn't a void for hell.

The reason I look at it from the prospective of maturity is because it is just a silly assertion, best kept to the theologians of the Dark Ages. But rmwilliamsll is right, and I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

 

[grimbly]

Why is this such a big deal? We all know that this is a mysterious subject with no clear answer from any side. Why would it be a question of maturity or realism?

I can't even figure out why the TEs even care. Evolution, I can understand. Why does this question even matter to a TE cosmology?

Because scientist have a commitment to seek out truth not "TRUTH™" and will not drop their guard for a second even if an untruth does not directly affect their work. So when somebody proposes something that is just plain wrong (in this case wrong and loopy), of course scientists will jump all over it even when it doesn't directly impact their field. So yea, it is a big deal.

Now I watched dad (posting under the user name of "simple") try to pull this same nonsense over at evcforum.net about 18 mo ago. It became very apparent to the posters there that they were dealing with somebody who had maybe a third or fourth grade level of comprehension in math and science. So they patiently broke everything down to a fifth grade level and explained to him why he was wrong. Even with all their simplifications, it went right over his head.

Eventually, the mods there got tired of his incoherent babble and told him that he would have to begin acting like a rational adult and actually supply data to back up his assertions or he would be banned. Unfortunately when the mods made that demand of dad, they raised the bar just a little too high for him and ultimately he was banned from posting there. So yea, this nonsense has been seen before and every time it comes up, there will always be somebody around to slap it down.

 

[dad]

Not sure. I would say that the criticism of the conventional theory is fine. I seriously doubt science knows much about the composition and characteristics of the earth core. I am not sure how much the OP implies knowledge of the physical characteristics of the core. If it did, and to the extent that it does, I would be dubious of that. But, sheol/hell has to be somewhere, why not in the center of the earth, where the Bible says it is. As for the core being "cool", I don't see a theological rational for this, nor does it seem that the science is complete on this question.

Science doesn't know. It assumes. The reason I think the bible supports a core that does not have to be hot, is because it was created not that long ago. Why would He make a hot core??? I think a lot of the theories were built around old age assumptions. - Like the big bang, and that the earth came from some sort of explosive event, or some such billions of years ago!
Just look at what actually supports that claim. Assumptions only. They really do not know.

I do note that our enemy seems to spend time walking upon the "stones of fire."

That would meet the criteria of being in the "heart of the earth" and, at its center, would be a "bottomless."

Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

A pit does open up in the last days.

What ideas are discussed in the TE camp? Is there a hell? does it have an identifiable location? What does Jesus spending three days in the heart of the earth mean?

Good questions.

Here is a possible related idea. Jack Hibbs on realradio.com and JR Church on prophecyinthenews.com have recently been teaching about Mount Hermon, sometimes referred to as Baal Hermon. This is in what was known as Cesari Phillippi, near the home of King Og and Bashan, traditionally associated with the occult. It was here that Jesus said of his Church, "The gates of hell shall not prevail against it." There is a cave in Mt. Hermon traditionally known as the "gates of hell." One rabbinical teaching is that the Nephilim entered earth through this area.

Here I would disagree. I think that refers to the sons of god that married earth girls. I think they were angels, and not a bad thing. What was so bad about it? -Having big kids? It simply shows the spiritual was much closer then. Remember Babel, they tried to build a tower to heaven, or the spiritual level that was near at the time. No need for some hell connection there.

Pictures of this area will also show numerous niches in the side of the mountain, which had been occupied by idols (suggesting a basis for a merely metaphorical reference to the "gates of hell," which is reasonable, but not completely satisfactory.) This was also the territory of the tribe of Dan, of which the prophecies of Jacob were ominous and some associate the AC with the tribe of Dan.

Now, I also believe there are gates to hell. Areas where spirits tend to enter from there to here. That could be one of them. But, I don't think a spirit needs a physical hole to do that?

While I am not clear on a straight line from the OP to the "gates of hell." It is, however, very interesting to see geography and perhaps geology merge with this particular ideas. As YEC, I think there is a literal truth and a literal aspect to the association beteween physical features of the earth and these spiritual realities. But, there exact mechanism is pretty murky.

True, we only see the surface, really. Funny thing, the surface of the earth will be burned up! IT is not forever. The earth itself, of course is forever. In other words, the inner earth is eternal, and possibly in the eternal state as we speak. Like the body of Jesus, it was spiritual, and physical after He rose from the dead. -The eternal state! So, if the mass in the center of earth was spiritual, and physical, all normal science, natural based assumption are off!!! Time for a fresh look.

 

[dad]

Hm. If the center of the earth is indeed hell, it should be possible to divide the volume of the core by the volume of the average human and come up with an estimate as to how many humans could possibly fit in hell. Then we could subtract that number from the estimated number of all humans that have ever lived and come up with an educated guess as to how many people there will be in heaven!
Who's first? I've got to take off for the lab.

I'll try.
I heard one guess like that for New Jerusalem. Based on the square miles, dimensions, etc, and so many people per sq mile. As it turns out, I think that this is almost the SAME size as the center of the earth (No I do not think at all, that it is down there. Ha)
Anyhow, as memory serves, it was about 23 billion people that could fit in the city, with only about five per square mile!!! So, ...?

 

[KerrMetric]

It's a paroDADy thread. I thought you never came over here and just hung out on the C/E board and EvC forums?

 

[grimbly]

It's a paroDADy thread. I thought you never came over here and just hung out on the C/E board and EvC forums?

Nope, dad got banned twice from the EvC forum. Still soiling himself @ physOrg.com though. They do not suffer fools gladly there so it's been kinda brutal there for dad.