[open] For those of us who are liberal, why?

[razzelflabben]

It doesnt necissarily support Biblical Innerancy, but Biblical insight, certainly.

Before I address anything here let me say bravo on being civil and kind on a topic that can be very charged. Outstanding show old chap!

As to the inerancy issue of the bible. I was not trying to say that it makes the bible innerrant, but rather that any time a teaching of the bible is consistant with life, it supports the innerrancy of said. Now, this does not negate any evidence that might falsify it, and is far from conclusive, but supporting evidence none the less. By definition of inerrency, anything that shows the bible to be true is supporting evidence, would be another way to say it.

Good points though, definately valid. Conservtive on the socialogical spectrum, but very Liberal politiacaly and possibly evangelically, IMO.

Not sure what you mean here, can you explain your thoughts on how this view is liberal politically and evangelically? Thanks

So yes, Lib and Con are stoopid terms that lose all meaning when you sit down and cry with a war orphan. Again, Biblically, issues such as Justice and Equality and non-judgmentalism would strictly be Conservative, but they have become Liberal within realms such as CF and Evangelicalism.

God, of course, is liberally conservative or conservatively liberal. Cos all people and situations are different we should apply ourselves appropriately, methinx.

Anywho, cheers for the thoughts Raz-Flab.

Again, thanks it's soooooo nice to be able to say something potentially charged and get a civil and respective response.

 

[artrx]

I am a liberal because I like to drink and smoke my pipe....

No, not really, even though there's not much in life more relaxing than a pipe full of smoking tobacco, some jazz music playing on the hi-fi, and a cup of hot coffee with a shot of frangelica and french vanilla cream....

I think I'm a liberal because I accept the hard fact that it all may not be true in the long run. Therefore, I have a deep respect for people who disagree with my understanding of truth; in fact, I long to learn from those outside the faith whose worldviews/metanarratives may differ profoundly from my inherited faith.

"Inherited faith"....just what have I maintained in spite of my philosophy degree and MA degree in literature? Well, I believe deeply in the Johannine idea that the essence of God's being is Love.....God IS Love. I deplore the past and present images of God that depict God more as a devil or monster. Just think about St. Augustine, Calvin, and Jonathan Edwards....I actually think Calvin was one of the greatest heretics Christianity has ever seen; yet, this murderer is reverenced by modern Calvinistic Baptists.

I am a liberal because I have a deep love for those liberals who affirm God's universal love for all people, theologians and thinkers like Alfred North Whitehead, Charles Hartshorne, Shubert Ogden, John Cobb, and others in the process community have done us a great service by working out a metaphysics of love that have attracted many people in our modern world, if not to the Christian faith in a liberal form, at least, to a form of theism. And they did so without denying the validity of scientific theories that have been dreamed up by excellent women and men in the scientific communities.

I am a liberal because it for me it frees the Bible from cold, rigid fundamentalisms. I now read Paul differently, yes, as a voice in and of the ancient world, but a voice loud enough to penetrate the confusions of our modern world too. I have seen in Paul's writing - reading it from a non-Augustinian/Calvinist perspective - a passion for Love Itself, a burning Love that Paul felt so intensely that he thought It would transform the whole world in his own lifetime.

I am liberal because I believe that Paul, John, and, furthermore, the Patristic Fathers are probably liberal compared to the fundamentlisms of today. It very well be the case that early Christianity DID NOT have the hell, fire, and brimstone message that later Christians feared; in fact, Augustine himself admitted that there were many Christians who believed that all would eventually be saved.

I am liberal because I believe truth must be tested in real life. In a belief system doesn't change lives and society for the better then what good is it really? The hellfire theology, the Calvinist theology, unpardonble sins, don't drink, smoke, or attend movies, evolution is of the devil theologies HAVEN'T WORKED!!!!! My sincere belief is if we view God differently, as a God of Love Who reaches out to all people at all times, seeking their reconciliation, and Who will finally win all people to Himself, then the church will change. We ourselves will want to love others when we see God as Love Itself.

I am finally a liberal because I believe that the church must think for itself today. That doesn't mean abandoning the Bible or any of the great traditions. But it does mean taking the best and the most truthful insights of the past, developing them, and working them into a theology or into many theologies for the good of the church today.

Sorry so long...I have a lot more to get off my chest....let me close by saying that I continue to believe in such orthodox teachings as the Trinity, the Incarnation of Christ,etc. I just believe that we must develop these doctrines further in such a way that it will appeal to both the modern church and today's society.

all that and because my understanding of and knowlege about the Creator and my fellow human beings lands me in the "liberal" category.

 

[gratis]

Liberal?
Because I believe that God is sooooo much bigger than the ultra conservative man made boxes that "churchianity" tries to place him in.

Because love and acceptance flows more freely.

Because it is easier to live free then in bondage because of trying to jump through hoops trying to stay "conservative" All that does is distract us from loving our neighbour.

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Outstanding show old chap!


...can you explain your thoughts on how this view is liberal politically and evangelically?

Well old bean, you'll always get a show from me.

You touched on 2 topics, the reuction of Government and giving to the poor. In my humble opinion both of these views are Biblical, therefore Biblically Conservative, but radically Liberal politically and Evangelically. I refer to those who would cal themselves "Evangelical" by denomination or whatever, rather than the Bibles term.

The notion of sharing all things, essentialy reflects both of your points. This is traditionally interpreted as a Liberal way of living -- trust me, I do it, and I'm considered Liberl because of it!

I thought this was self-evident, but perhaps there is no greater language barrier than those between the Empire and the Colonies? (Although USA seems intent on following UKs mistakes in seeking to be an Empire, based on Dollars not a Monarch?)

Cheers me old fruit.

 

[razzelflabben]

Well old bean, you'll always get a show from me.

You touched on 2 topics, the reuction of Government and giving to the poor. In my humble opinion both of these views are Biblical, therefore Biblically Conservative, but radically Liberal politically and Evangelically. I refer to those who would cal themselves "Evangelical" by denomination or whatever, rather than the Bibles term.

The notion of sharing all things, essentialy reflects both of your points. This is traditionally interpreted as a Liberal way of living -- trust me, I do it, and I'm considered Liberl because of it!

I thought this was self-evident, but perhaps there is no greater language barrier than those between the Empire and the Colonies? (Although USA seems intent on following UKs mistakes in seeking to be an Empire, based on Dollars not a Monarch?)

Cheers me old fruit.

You brought a smile to my face on an already stressful day, thanks.

So if I get you right, what you are suggesting is that the radical life/love of God is a liberal thought. Is that about right? So what then is conservative?

Interesting thoughts old chap, you have my attention.

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Liberal in Evangelical Church terms.
Conservative under these terms would mean our current individualistic, money/success-orientated, warm-but-distant, separatist, unethical, unaware, uncaring and legalistic incarnation of what would claim to be the body of Christ in the West. IMO.

 

[freyajem]

Liberal?
Because I believe that God is sooooo much bigger than the ultra conservative man made boxes that "churchianity" tries to place him in.

Because love and acceptance flows more freely.

Because it is easier to live free then in bondage because of trying to jump through hoops trying to stay "conservative" All that does is distract us from loving our neighbour.

 

[Moana]

What do you not accept about what I posted?

And I accept everyone as Jesus did.

I was explaining what I said, that's all.

 

[razzelflabben]

Liberal in Evangelical Church terms.
Conservative under these terms would mean our current individualistic, money/success-orientated, warm-but-distant, separatist, unethical, unaware, uncaring and legalistic incarnation of what would claim to be the body of Christ in the West. IMO.

Now that's an impressive string of adjectives. Got to love it, thanks I got what you are saying at least I'm pretty sure I get it. You have prompted some interesting thoughts to explore. Again thanks!

 

[freyajem]

I was explaining what I said, that's all.

Thank you

I went back and I realize that now.

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Now that's an impressive string of adjectives. Got to love it, thanks I got what you are saying at least I'm pretty sure I get it. You have prompted some interesting thoughts to explore. Again thanks!

Always welcome old bean. Good to think!

 

[Freedom&Light]

I was originally labeled a liberal because I believe that God is the only one that knows about a person's salvation, that we don't know Everything, and yes, Virginia, God will save people who don't label themselves as Christian.

I figured if that's what a liberal was, I was better off.

 

[freyajem]

I was originally labeled a liberal because I believe that God is the only one that knows about a person's salvation, that we don't know Everything, and yes, Virginia, God will save people who don't label themselves as Christian.

I figured if that's what a liberal was, I was better off.

That's a good way of looking at it free

I guess that is me too

 

[marli]

I was once deeply Calvinist, and to tell the truth, if someone needed advice from a Calvinist perspective now, I could give it as freely as anyone -- the answers would simply be my parroting what other people have told me.

But really, I feel as if churches and Christian groups are so interested in evangelizing and norming that they are hardly concerned with developing the individual's relationship with God anymore. And the result makes me so sad sometimes, when my friends say in a hotheaded evangelical fervor, "Oh, I would love to go to Israel, so that we can convert the Jews!" without thinking to accept others as brothers and sisters in the Lord, but rather, as some sort of conquest.

 

[freyajem]

I was once deeply Calvinist, and to tell the truth, if someone needed advice from a Calvinist perspective now, I could give it as freely as anyone -- the answers would simply be my parroting what other people have told me.

But really, I feel as if churches and Christian groups are so interested in evangelizing and norming that they are hardly concerned with developing the individual's relationship with God anymore. And the result makes me so sad sometimes, when my friends say in a hotheaded evangelical fervor, "Oh, I would love to go to Israel, so that we can convert the Jews!" without thinking to accept others as brothers and sisters in the Lord, but rather, as some sort of conquest.

I love you dearly marli

You have put my thoughts into words where I couldn't. At the moment I am not attending any church for the very reason you have stated your feelings of churches. When individuals cease to matter, something is wrong.

 

[Chazemataz]

I am a liberal- mainly in life- because of the conservatives that surround and frustrate me. Does it really make a difference if my room isn't sparkling clean for a party in which no-one will even see my room? Nope, it sure doesn't. Will it hurt anything if I decide to dress however I want? Nope, I am sure I and everyone else will survive and the earth will not explode. Will I be harmed in any way, shape, or form if I decide to do my homework at 8:30 and be done with it by 9:00, instead of as soon as I get home at 3:30 and get done by 4:00? No.

Would it hurt you in any way, shape, or form if two men are in love with each other? Nope, it sure doesn't. So why do people care about such things? It truly boggles the brain. my brain at least.

 

[DavinMochrie]

I guess I* am a liberal,

Because I believe everything you guys have said....

*And one more important issue..... I'm not an idiot.

By that I mean, that I think for myself!

If God created me, he created this mind. Enough said.

 

[Im_A]

I guess I* am a liberal,

Because I believe everything you guys have said....

*And one more important issue..... I'm not an idiot.

By that I mean, that I think for myself!

If God created me, he created this mind. Enough said.

i'm trying to understand the "idiot" part. is that to say that anyone not liberal is an idiot or doesn't think for themselves?

i'm just asking to understand...that's all.

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

We are all idiots. We all generalise and demonise the Other or Outisider.

If we cliam to be Liberal, I would offer that we all actively seek to embrace the Outsider, as Christ taught us to, especially our Enemies. It's tough, I know, and often I have to bit my lip in order to embrace some Christian who seems to have lost Christ, or a friend who seems intent on destroying themsleves.

Could I ask that a Liberal be the person that seeks to build bridges, to EMPATHISE and show GRACE? In my limited experience, there is no retort to GRACE other than ignorance or violence or fear.

Cos being gracious is a scandellously liberating act, applied liberally. So, isn't this a good definition of Liberal?

 

[DavinMochrie]

i'm trying to understand the "idiot" part. is that to say that anyone not liberal is an idiot or doesn't think for themselves?

i'm just asking to understand...that's all.

Perhaps we can discuss it here.

http://www.christianforums.com/t4582484-christianity-without-idiots.html