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My questions-

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TheDreadedAtheist

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1) Why should I believe in God? Please support your answer with some sort of evidence.

2) Are there any opponents of evolution here? If so, please explain your dispute.

3) Why is the Big Bang theory not enough of an explaination for the creation of the Universe?

4) How can the following condition be true at the same time?:

  • God is real
  • God is benevolent
  • God is all knowing
  • God is all powerful
  • Horrible disasters such as the Halocaust and the so rightly named "Red Death" occur
Surely the God would know about these disasters, surely God would dislike the disasters, surely God would have the ability to stop the disasters from happening. Yet they still happened.

5) How old is the Earth? Explain.
 

ebia

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1) Why should I believe in God?
Because he exists.

Please support your answer with some sort of evidence
.
What sort of evidence did you want?

2) Are there any opponents of evolution here? If so, please explain your dispute.
Not applicable - I don't have a problem with the ToE.

3) Why is the Big Bang theory not enough of an explaination for the creation of the Universe?
It doesn't answer the questions "why?".

4) How can the following condition be true at the same time?:

  • God is real
  • God is benevolent
  • God is all knowing
  • God is all powerful
  • Horrible disasters such as the Halocaust and the so rightly named "Red Death" occur
God wanted to create a truely free being - one who can make genuine choices. You can't do that without taking the risk that some of the choices will be bad ones. God thinks we are worth that risk.

Surely the God would know about these disasters, surely God would dislike the disasters, surely God would have the ability to stop the disasters from happening. Yet they still happened.
God can't stop the disasters without taking away our freedom, and that would be worse than allowing the disasters.

5) How old is the Earth? Explain.
Very, very old - date best determined by cosmology but I'm not very good at remembering big numbers and I can't be bothered to look it up.
 
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TheDreadedAtheist

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Because he exists.
Yeah, I'm not convinced
What sort of evidence did you want
Evidence that he exists. Anything that that would make someone who does not currently believe in God, begin to believe.
Not applicable - I don't have a problem with the
It just seems to conflict the "God made everything" idea in the bible.
God wanted to create a truely free being - one who can make genuine choices. You can't do that without taking the risk that some of the choices will be bad ones. God thinks we are worth that
So you are saying that the "Red Death" AKA "The Plague" is due to human "perfect freedom"?
God can't stop the disasters without taking away our freedom, and that would be worse than allowing the disasters
I am glad that your God is willing to allow me to die, in some attempt to keep me "free".
Very, very old - date best determined by cosmology but I'm not very good at remembering big numbers and I can't be bothered to look
edit- I missed this, sorry
I am glad that you are rational enough to believe geologists. I have heard that it is 6700 years old before.
It doesn't answer the questions "why?".
Can you explain why it needs to?
 
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ebia

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Then you can't have it (or, at least, I can't provide it).
Proof is for maths and alcohol as they say.



I don't have an issue with the the theory of evolution (ToE). It's as good a scientific theory as any other.




I did what?



Sorry, I don't have it.



Beats me, but that isn't what the O.P. asked about.


Why do I need to look up something that we wouldn't disagree about?
 
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United

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Hi There TheDreadedAtheist & ImpactOfReasoning,

You both appear new here & I understand you are keen to debate. However, given your pointed remarks, it (perhaps incorrectly) appears that you are more interested in pushing your point then listening to others answers. We should all be here to listen, learn & add our contributions, so please - ease up & be polite!

With that said, I'm sure you will find answers to your questions spread through previous threads. I don't have much time now, but I will respond to your queries later today.
 
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ebia

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Yeah, I'm not convinced
Didn't think you would be.

Evidence that he exists. Anything that that would make someone who does not currently believe in God, begin to believe.
You should be able to find that in the transformed lives of the people in your local parish chuch. Unfortunately that may not be the case in practice. Sorry.

It just seems to conflict the "God made everything" idea in the bible.
Not at all. The theory of evolution is a scientific description of a small part of the mechanism by which God created and is creating.

So you are saying that the "Red Death" AKA "The Plague" is due to human "perfect freedom"?
I was actually responding to the first part - the holocaust.

Why God needs to allow plague and earthquakes (for instance) to happen is not a question that any Christian can give a satisfactory answer to I'm afraid. I could run off one of those trite ones if you want, but they don't make any sense and make for bad theology.

I am glad that your God is willing to allow me to die, in some attempt to keep me "free".
If lack of freewill is, essentially, never to exist, which is better?

edit- I missed this, sorry
No worries.

Can you explain why it needs to?
What do you mean? As a mechanical explanation of how the universe first started it may be fine (my physics isn't up to commenting on that). But it doesn't answer the question of why it came into the existance because it isn't supposed to. To answer that question I need theology and/or philosophy, not science.
 
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TheDreadedAtheist

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Hi There TheDreadedAtheist & ImpactOfReasoning,

You both appear new here & I understand you are keen to debate. However, given your pointed remarks, it (perhaps incorrectly) appears that you are more interested in pushing your point then listening to others answers. We should all be here to listen, learn & add our contributions, so please - ease up & be polite!

With that said, I'm sure you will find answers to your questions spread through previous threads. I don't have much time now, but I will respond to your queries later today.
I am merely interested in finding a serious answer. I hoped that possibly this forum would be a place that I could decide if religion is for me. I am not willing to simply accept any response as the truth, so I ask for clarification, or other types of further explanation for points of view that are presented.
 
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TheDreadedAtheist

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Didn't think you would be.
Can you blame me?
You should be able to find that in the transformed lives of the people in your local parish chuch. Unfortunately that may not be the case in practice. Sorry.
I don't believe that anything like that could ever be unexplainable through science, and a series of coincidences, so I don't see how looking at changed lives is going to serve as valid evidence for me.
Not at all. The theory of evolution is a scientific description of a small part of the mechanism by which God created and is creating.
I don't see God (or anyone claiming to be under divine inspiration) saying that mammals eveolved from fish, and fish from single celled organisms.
I was actually responding to the first part - the holocaust.

Why God needs to allow plague and earthquakes (for instance) to happen is not a question that any Christian can give a satisfactory answer to I'm afraid. I could run off one of those trite ones if you want, but they don't make any sense and make for bad theology.
I have recieved all the information I can on this subject from you, so I will not ask any further questions.
If lack of freewill is, essentially, never to exist, which is better?
How can you call a life, which you say is created by God (God being an all-knowing being) free? According to you, he created us, and thereby knew exactly what all of our actions would be. If God is real, and what is explained in the bible is also true, "free-will" must be an illusion.
What do you mean? As a mechanical explanation of how the universe first started it may be fine (my physics isn't up to commenting on that). But it doesn't answer the question of why it came into the existance because it isn't supposed to. To answer that question I need theology and/or philosophy, not science.
No science will do, allow me to explain what I have heard (mod, please do not interprate this as pushing my point of view, I am simply sharing information, that anyone may interprate as they wish).

"Before the Big Bang" is not a logically valid phrase. Everything that is came from the Big Bang, this includes time, as Einstein showed us with general relativity. Because there was no "before' the Big Bang, the question of "something coming from nothing" is not even a logical question. This is because the term "come from" means "was created as a result of" or "was the immediate predecessor of", and since neither of those make sense if there was no "before the Big Bang", the question of something comming from nothing is not valid.

I hope that was the point you were making.
 
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TheDreadedAtheist

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This is flaming. I would like you to tell me what immature things I may have said in the chat box, and since that is impossible due to the fact that I did not, I would like you to leave. I am sorry I cannot subscribe to beliefs simply based on what a few people tell me, and what is written in a book. I have made up my mind about religion, and I expect to see many of you in the debate forums.

By the way constantly typing "...." is not a very good way to make youself look intelligent. I did not mean to be insulting here, but you, my friend have forced me. I would like to also see some research you have done that led you to believe in Christian doctrine, as you have questioned my research, and I find it rather insulting to my intelligence.
 
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Godsgurl08

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1) Why should I believe in God?

You should believe in God, because he created this world and you, so give glory, honor and respect to the One who created you.

Please support your answer with some sort of evidence.

2) Are there any opponents of evolution here? If so, please explain your dispute.

I oppose evolution, the anatomy and physiology of different species are distinct, even though they are related closely to each other. Who believes that we all came from a euglena?

evidence:

first of all if we were all to come from that one cell the euglena (all cells come from pre existing cells) we wouldn't be here today. You see if you were to take that cell and burst it (scientists say that amino acids; proteins were here first on the earth) you can't put back the pieces together. Those cell parts can not make up any other cell parts. Read below to see the experiment a guy did in the 70's to show how life began.

3) Why is the Big Bang theory not enough of an explaination for the creation of the Universe?

The Big Bang theory is nonsense. Did you know that if the earth was moved a millimeter closer or away from teh sun, we would die either from freezing or frying? Also if the earth's gravitational field was moved from 6.67 * 10^17 and higher, or lower that means that we would all die. So how could the big bang just come out of no where and put the earth in a specific place with water, grass, trees, animals, bacteria and other species? The human body is very complex. How can we emerge from one cell...a euglena (to be more specific) and then gradually over billions and billions of years become reptiles and then dinosaurs. Did you know that dinosaurs lived during the time when Noah was alive? That's how they all died in the flood, it even mentions it in the Bible how God loved his creatures. Its funny how someone can make up foolish ideas. Ok, the substances that they say that were here on earth to make life, was nitrogen and some other type of gas that I can't remember from the top of my head. Anyways if you take them and put them into a glass and make lightining with electrical discharges, you would see that amino acids' proteins would appear.

4) How can the following condition be true at the same time?:

  • God is real
  • God is benevolent
  • God is all knowing
  • God is all powerful
  • Horrible disasters such as the Halocaust and the so rightly named "Red Death" occur
Surely the God would know about these disasters, surely God would dislike the disasters, surely God would have the ability to stop the disasters from happening. Yet
they still happened.

God is omnipresent, and omniscient. God does not bring disasters on His people, Satan does. Satan was kicked out of heaven because he was jealous of Jesus. When he was kicked out onto Earth, he tempted Eve to eat the fruit and when he did that Eve gave some to Adam and that is when sin began. Sin brings pressure, hardships and pain. God did not create sin, the devil did. God does have the ability to stop the disasters, but He won't for a reason. That reason is, when God kicked Satan out of heaven, the angels felt as if God was not a nice God. So God decided to send His son to die for us on the cross to save us from our sins. When the angels saw that God did this, they kind of felt that he was losing the battle to Satan, because most people betrayed Him. If God were to come right now and not give a chance to people to give their life to Him, the angels would know for sure that God is unjust and not nice. So God is waiting for everyone to have a chance to turn to Him. He will judge every single person on this earth. (If the person is a baby, He will judge the mother, because she is accountable for the baby). As soon as every ear has heard about God, then he will come and take back his people who gave their life to him, obeyed him, and loved him. Adam and Eve sinned and God took back the Garden of Eden and cast them out of it. The reason why he did that was because Eve and Adam ate from the tree of knowledge, good and evil. (when God told them not too). These disasters happen because of sin, but God sent his son to save us from our sins so that we can go to heaven if we obey and trust in Him. God loves us and doesn't want to see us suffer, that is why whenever we sin, God turns his head away and cries. He wants to get into your heart. He doesn't force His way through like Satan does, but He does it in love, so accept His love.

5) How old is the Earth? Explain.

The earth is about 6000 years old.

It's in the Bible somewhere, I'll tell you when I find it

By the way, if you need a better example and explanations, read Ellen G. White's book on The Acts and the Prophets. She has strong words to say and explains this stuff in detail. :)
 
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ebia

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Can you blame me?
No.

I don't believe that anything like that could ever be unexplainable through science, and a series of coincidences, so I don't see how looking at changed lives is going to serve as valid evidence for me.
On that basis - if you are willing to write off evidence on principle before it's even produced - I'm not sure what evidence would convince you.

I don't see God (or anyone claiming to be under divine inspiration) saying that mammals eveolved from fish, and fish from single celled organisms.
And? God's revelation is about teaching us theology, about God and our relationship to him, not about the mechanisms of this universe. We have a perfectly good tool for finding that out for ourselves - it's called science.

I have recieved all the information I can on this subject from you, so I will not ask any further questions.
Ok.

How can you call a life, which you say is created by God (God being an all-knowing being) free? According to you, he created us, and thereby knew exactly what all of our actions would be. If God is real, and what is explained in the bible is also true, "free-will" must be an illusion.
Some have concluded that. Most have not. If God knows what all our choices will be because he is outside of time that doesn't preclude us having freewill within time. Unless, of course, the whole concept of freewill is inherently flawed regardless of the existance or nonexistance of God - but in that case any conversation we might have on anything is rather moot.

If God is real, and what is explained in the bible is also true, "free-will" must be an illusion
If what is explained in the bible is true God is also regularly surprised by our choices. The bible is an attempt to explain God within the limits of the human language and understanding of it's human authors. It's explanation are inherently imperfect, therefore.

No science will do, allow me to explain what I have heard (mod, please do not interprate this as pushing my point of view, I am simply sharing information, that anyone may interprate as they wish).

"Before the Big Bang" is not a logically valid phrase. Everything that is came from the Big Bang, this includes time, as Einstein showed us with general relativity. Because there was no "before' the Big Bang, the question of "something coming from nothing" is not even a logical question. This is because the term "come from" means "was created as a result of" or "was the immediate predecessor of", and since neither of those make sense if there was no "before the Big Bang", the question of something comming from nothing is not valid.
I understand all of that. However:
a. it's my understanding that science is currently looking for stuff that explains the big bang. Sorry if that sounds a bit hazy, but it's not an area I've kept up with.

b. describing stuff without using terms like 'before', though incorrect, is beyond most of us who aren't mathematical physicists. The language doesn't exist outside of mathematics, if there, and if it did it would go over the head of everyone who isn't a mathematician.

c. I'm not looking for a "God-of-the-gaps" who explains the bits science can't. God's working is in the stuff science can explain. Even if science can explain everything with one finite, complete and consistant theory of everything (unlikely since such a mathematical system is impossible) God is still behind it all.
 
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Godsgurl08

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This is flaming. I would like you to tell me what immature things I may have said in the chat box, and since that is impossible due to the fact that I did not, I would like you to leave. I am sorry I cannot subscribe to beliefs simply based on what a few people tell me, and what is written in a book. I have made up my mind about religion, and I expect to see many of you in the debate forums.

By the way constantly typing "...." is not a very good way to make youself look intelligent. I did not mean to be insulting here, but you, my friend have forced me. I would like to also see some research you have done that led you to believe in Christian doctrine, as you have questioned my research, and I find it rather insulting to my intelligence.

if you have made up your mind about religion, why do you want to debate? if you are so strong that you don't believe in God, then there is no point on making a debating what you should believe and what you shouldn't and other things
 
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ebia

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The earth is about 6000 years old.

It's in the Bible somewhere, I'll tell you when I find it
It's not stated in the bible. It was arrived at by Bishop Usher by adding together the ages given in the geneologies and making a few assumptions.
 
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TheDreadedAtheist

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if you have made up your mind about religion, why do you want to debate? if you are so strong that you don't believe in God, then there is no point on making a debating what you should believe and what you shouldn't and other things
I'm afraid that my answer to that question would quickly get me banned from these forums.
 
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Someguyouknow

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This is flaming. I would like you to tell me what immature things I may have said in the chat box, and since that is impossible due to the fact that I did not, I would like you to leave. I am sorry I cannot subscribe to beliefs simply based on what a few people tell me, and what is written in a book. I have made up my mind about religion, and I expect to see many of you in the debate forums.

By the way constantly typing "...." is not a very good way to make youself look intelligent. I did not mean to be insulting here, but you, my friend have forced me. I would like to also see some research you have done that led you to believe in Christian doctrine, as you have questioned my research, and I find it rather insulting to my intelligence.

haha i found that funny... like your correcting my typos.

Thats how i type on the interweb. Its my "style" love it or hate it. Havent had any complaints so i that this as "getting me back". If you are actually serious, which your last post brings me to believe you arent, check out some of the apologetics threads. Since i rather not be annoyed with this, i will just leave it at that...
 
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