Matt Crouch

[HisBelovedMelody]

I would agree with that. My personnal opinion is that I would rather the money be spent on the movie than on some of the other programs they have, but then I'm not a supporter or fan of TBN.



It may be excusable to some people, but it is not excusable as far as I am concerned. We are supposed to be above reproach and not even have the appearance of evil. I thought it was illegal to give a ministry money for one reason and it be used for another. Anyone know?

I would think it is illegal...but then..where is the facts on this? We are running on gossip here. IF it is true that it was done...there is a paper trail..OR even better yet..write TBN and ask for a financial report. JUST cause an article said it...could it be they MAY perhaps be lying? WHO knows...

 

[lyonguard]

I would think it is illegal...but then..where is the facts on this? We are running on gossip here. IF it is true that it was done...there is a paper trail..OR even better yet..write TBN and ask for a financial report. JUST cause an article said it...could it be they MAY perhaps be lying? WHO knows...

I believe we all understand your position on the facts and gossip issue and how upset you are. Since this thread and the posters here appear to have caused you a lot of grief, maybe it might be more beneficial for you to pray for everyone instead of continuing to make your case.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

I believe we all understand your position on the facts and gossip issue and how upset you are. Since this thread and the posters here appear to have caused you a lot of grief, maybe it might be more beneficial for you to pray for everyone instead of continuing to make your case.

mhm...food for thought. Though, honestly. I am not mad really! Honest I am not.

 

[Tamara224]

I would think it is illegal...but then..where is the facts on this? We are running on gossip here. IF it is true that it was done...there is a paper trail..OR even better yet..write TBN and ask for a financial report. JUST cause an article said it...could it be they MAY perhaps be lying? WHO knows...

Isn't that kind of a contradiction? It's not okay to go on 'gossip' when discussing the finances of TBN, but it is okay to speculate that the reporter is lying? How do you know they are lying? Don't you think you should write the reporter and ask for proof before you call him a liar?

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

Isn't that kind of a contradiction? It's not okay to go on 'gossip' when discussing the finances of TBN, but it is okay to speculate that the reporter is lying? How do you know they are lying? Don't you think you should write the reporter and ask for proof before you call him a liar?

I WASN"T calling him a liar! I suggested MAYBE it was untrue?? Please, read what is written. It may very well be true for all I know. BUT if people are here posting that Matt Crouch fraudulantly did things with money, or Paul Crouch...and we sit and keep spreading it...

 

[Tenebrae]

apparantly not, cause there is another thread dissing Paula White cause she had Donald Trump on her show!! GASP! Such blasphemy! YIKES!

I'm going to say this slowly, so you get it

If these..................threads................annoy.........you........so .............much..........DONT............click............on..........them

Its not rocket science. If this subject annoys you, close down your web browser, turn your computer off, and go and do something else. I see no one twisting your arm up your back and forcing you to read these threads

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

I'm going to say this slowly, so you get it

If these..................threads................annoy.........you........so .............much..........DONT............click............on..........them

Its not rocket science. If this subject annoys you, close down your web browser, turn your computer off, and go and do something else. I see no one twisting your arm up your back and forcing you to read these threads

and your point? I find these couple threads funny actually! I didnt say I was MAD or upset or anything else! Wiseone....chill. Relax...thanks for being concerned for my welfare,but I am ok..honest!

 

[Tenebrae]

I personally liked the movie One Night With the King. If it was made by a secular studio, no one would have a problem with the amount of money they made or the kind of car they drove. We are the Kings kids so why shouldn't we have the best?

I know there's the argument that all that money could be used to feed the poor, but then you could argue that all the way down until you walk and live in a tent if you use that logic.

Having said that, all the money Matt Crouch made should be above board and there should not be any appearance of a conflict of interest. Obviously this isn't the case.

However, part of the problem is with the body of Christ itself. There is a huge void in discernment. If Christians would walk with discernment then a lot of problems would never become problems to begin with. Instead, a great majority believe whatever someone tells them on tv and then are upset when they don't live up to expectations. It's a sad commentary on today's Christian.

 

[Tamara224]

I WASN"T calling him a liar! I suggested MAYBE it was untrue?? Please, read what is written. It may very well be true for all I know. BUT if people are here posting that Matt Crouch fraudulantly did things with money, or Paul Crouch...and we sit and keep spreading it...

Well, MAYBE it's true. Can't we even discuss it or the possibility of it? I never said Paul or Matt Crouch has done anything fraudulent... I said IF...

So far I've read the article and it seemed biased but that doesn't mean that the bare facts and figures aren't true. If you can give me a reason to doubt the facts...

Does Matt Crouch really own a Porcshe? Does Laurie Crouch really own a Bentley? Did Paul really provide Matt with $32 Million to make the movie? It seems to me that these facts would be easily documented. If the LA Times is lying, I have no doubt that the Crouches will be suing soon.

The article is just as creditable as anything else coming out of the media. They often present the facts with a definite bias, but it is not often that they flat-out lie about things that can be so easily contradicted. So, until presented with contradictory evidence, I see no reason to dismiss the facts as presented in the article.

I don't think it's wrong to disseminate the truth, even if it damages a person's reputation. If it is true, then the person doesn't deserve a good reputation.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

Well, MAYBE it's true. Can't we even discuss it or the possibility of it? I never said Paul or Matt Crouch has done anything fraudulent... I said IF...

So far I've read the article and it seemed biased but that doesn't mean that the bare facts and figures aren't true. If you can give me a reason to doubt the facts...

Does Matt Crouch really own a Porcshe? Does Laurie Crouch really own a Bentley? Did Paul really provide Matt with $32 Million to make the movie? It seems to me that these facts would be easily documented. If the LA Times is lying, I have no doubt that the Crouches will be suing soon.

The article is just as creditable as anything else coming out of the media. They often present the facts with a definite bias, but it is not often that they flat-out lie about things that can be so easily contradicted. So, until presented with contradictory evidence, I see no reason to dismiss the facts as presented in the article.

I don't think it's wrong to disseminate the truth, even if it damages a person's reputation. If it is true, then the person doesn't deserve a good reputation.

could very well be true..don't know. I guess my question is...why sit here and help the enemy? Why can't we think the best of people..not just the ones mentioned here. I don't know. Is there anything wrong with them driving those vehicles? Shoot, my husband wants a Bently and is working towards it....nothing wrong iwth it. IF and that is a BIG IF the Crouches did it fraudulantely..then YES, it is wrong. BUT there is no proof either way is there?

 

[Tamara224]

could very well be true..don't know. I guess my question is...why sit here and help the enemy? Why can't we think the best of people..not just the ones mentioned here. I don't know. Is there anything wrong with them driving those vehicles? Shoot, my husband wants a Bently and is working towards it....nothing wrong iwth it. IF and that is a BIG IF the Crouches did it fraudulantely..then YES, it is wrong. BUT there is no proof either way is there?

If it is the truth, spreading it will never be helping "the enemy".

Thinking the "best" of people sounds really nice, but it serves no one's best interests to stick our heads in the sand and pretend that people are good when they are not.

I already said I have no problem with a Christian owning a Bentley. Personally, I don't understand how that kind of excess squares with the calling of a Christian but I would never say that a person owning such is not a Christian. What I have a problem with is anyone, Christian or non, using fraudulent means to gain money. I don't know for sure if the Crouches are frauds. I have seen and heard them ask for money, though, and I've never once heard them, or heard of them, saying "We will use some of the money you send in to fund the movie that will help my daughter-in-law buy a quarter of a million dollar car."

The money came from somewhere and if it came out of a general fund raised by contributions to TBN it was given by people responding to the requests made on TBN. Probably TBN does not earmark money unless specifically asked to do so. It's probably not illegal. Just because it's legal, however, does not mean it is not a bit 'shady'. It just seems real fishy to me. Do you know the demographics of the people watching TBN? I think it's safe to say that the vast majority (99.99%) of the viewers are not wealthy and many are living on fixed incomes. Those people are giving faithfully to support the 'ministry' of TBN around the world. They give, they use public transportation or drive the same old Toyota they've had since 1982, and Matt Crouch drives a Porsche, paid for, ultimately, by the money sent in by little old ladies, struggling young families and middle-class blue-collar workers. If that doesn't smell fishy to you...

 

[GodismyRefuge]

If it is the truth, spreading it will never be helping "the enemy".

Thinking the "best" of people sounds really nice, but it serves no one's best interests to stick our heads in the sand and pretend that people are good when they are not.

I already said I have no problem with a Christian owning a Bentley. Personally, I don't understand how that kind of excess squares with the calling of a Christian but I would never say that a person owning such is not a Christian. What I have a problem with is anyone, Christian or non, using fraudulent means to gain money. I don't know for sure if the Crouches are frauds. I have seen and heard them ask for money, though, and I've never once heard them, or heard of them, saying "We will use some of the money you send in to fund the movie that will help my daughter-in-law buy a quarter of a million dollar car."

The money came from somewhere and if it came out of a general fund raised by contributions to TBN it was given by people responding to the requests made on TBN. Probably TBN does not earmark money unless specifically asked to do so. It's probably not illegal. Just because it's legal, however, does not mean it is not a bit 'shady'. It just seems real fishy to me. Do you know the demographics of the people watching TBN? I think it's safe to say that the vast majority (99.99%) of the viewers are not wealthy and many are living on fixed incomes. Those people are giving faithfully to support the 'ministry' of TBN around the world. They give, they use public transportation or drive the same old Toyota they've had since 1982, and Matt Crouch drives a Porsche, paid for, ultimately, by the money sent in by little old ladies, struggling young families and middle-class blue-collar workers. If that doesn't smell fishy to you...

Excellent post!

 

[CrazyforYeshua]

It may be excusable to some people, but it is not excusable as far as I am concerned. We are supposed to be above reproach and not even have the appearance of evil. I thought it was illegal to give a ministry money for one reason and it be used for another. Anyone know?

Yes, I know, and you are correct. That goes from a TV ministry, to the local church. Money given to the food ministry I organize must be used for food, I cannot use it for anything else, unless I call a special congregational vote, because they are the ones who gave it.

 

[JTM3]

It is true that the national media hasn't always been the best friend of the church...

...but does that mean the truths that were uncovered in this article are not true? Truths such as Matt Crouch recieving 32 Million dollars of untaxed money from Dad - donated from TBN viewers who believed the money to be going towards keeping the network running.

I'll have to be a little honest here.

1) The reaction to this news is very alarming to me on so many levels. The best defense that can be offered is that it's the national media so it means nothing? What would it take for you to see the truth?

[FONT=&quot]2) Think about the scrutiny that most politicians are under for gifts in the thousands of dollars. If they get caught, they can go to jail, like her in my state where a number of state representatives went to jail over amounts such as $50,000 being used wrongly. Should not the same standard apply to this guy, despite him being a religious icon?

This to me is far more scandalous and sick.

I'd be very interested to hear what Jim Baker thinks about this.
[/FONT]

hmm, TBN asks every few minutes. If I shared the gospel 24 hours a day like they claim to, I wouldn't ask for a dime.

Tell me mister smarty pants, if they don't ask for money, HOW are they going to stay on the air?

There are plenty of good ministers on TBN preaching the gospel and you can't say that just because they are on TBN they are all crooks somehow.

We are debating what they DO with the money, not how they get it.

I don't really care for their donations-for-gifts strategy though...

I DO watch TBN, and NO they DO NOT ask for money every few minutes. AGAIN your avoidance of an answer to my question! THEY are preaching the gospel..weather you like it or not...a bit extravagant? Yeah, I concede that...a few flakes on there? YEP..agree there too! BUT please..STOP with the slander!

I think he means advertising their "love gifts" which they DO do quite a bit of...

what slander? every half hour at least they ask for money, much more often during their praise-a-thon, and which Gospel do they preach? Give money and your worries and prayers will be answered? That isn't the Gospel in my Bible.

I'll have to watch them and mark down when they do do it...so next time I post I can be better informed than all of you put together

Its...like....the BLOB!

WHERE DID YOU GET THAT EMOTE?!!?!? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's what jumps out at me in this article.

All direct quotes:

Friends and foes describe him, by turns, as charismatic, arrogant, charming, ruthless, visionary and greedy.

What friends? What foes? Who are your sources?

Other entertainment-industry veterans who have worked with Crouch — a diminutive figure that sports a modish crew cut — say he would have been drummed out of the business if not for his TBN ties.

What entertainment-industry veterans?

Associates also say that Crouch's impulsiveness — and perhaps a desire to escape his father's long shadow — has prompted him to take shortcuts that have led to risky decisions.

What associates?

A second person, a former confidant of Matthew Crouch...

What second person?

Joe Marroquin is a onetime Gener8Xion employee who said he did not leave on good terms. He said Crouch would charge pastors $15,000 to $20,000 a week to produce their shows — work that consisted of little more than providing access to his parents' network.

Here is the one case they actually names their source - Joe Marroquin - apparently a disgruntled former employee of Crouch with an axe to grind. Is this really a great source of truthful information?

This article is extremely slanted one way, laced with innuendo and speculation and makes Matt Crouch out to be a monster living on his daddy's (poor old TBN dupes) donations - sounds like something you would read here actually.

I know nothing of Matt Crouch but considering the source and the lack of any reliable proven sources I take it with a large grain of salt.

Maybe it’s all true, partly true, mostly untrue or completely untrue but I don't trust the LA Times to tell me the truth.

The same posters on this thread that are taking the "worldy" LA Times at their word are screaming in the Paula White thread that we should run from Donald Trump because he is "worldy"

Talk about having your cake and eating it too - sheesh! Give me a break!

Excellent post!!!!!!

And you're coming across as condescening and ignorant. You refuse to believe anything in the article because it may be"gossip and slander" and because you say it was written by the secular media.

Sigh.

I used to work in the secular media. You know, people in the news aren't all devils.

Believe it or not

Just a few questions.

Did we really land people on the moon?
Did jews die in a holocaust?

How do you know?

Secular media...what's your point?? They weren't all liberal Democrat s 50 years ago...

I already said I have no problem with a Christian owning a Bentley. Personally, I don't understand how that kind of excess squares with the calling of a Christian but I would never say that a person owning such is not a Christian. What I have a problem with is anyone, Christian or non, using fraudulent means to gain money. I don't know for sure if the Crouches are frauds. I have seen and heard them ask for money, though, and I've never once heard them, or heard of them, saying "We will use some of the money you send in to fund the movie that will help my daughter-in-law buy a quarter of a million dollar car."

The money came from somewhere and if it came out of a general fund raised by contributions to TBN it was given by people responding to the requests made on TBN. Probably TBN does not earmark money unless specifically asked to do so. It's probably not illegal. Just because it's legal, however, does not mean it is not a bit 'shady'. It just seems real fishy to me. Do you know the demographics of the people watching TBN? I think it's safe to say that the vast majority (99.99%) of the viewers are not wealthy and many are living on fixed incomes. Those people are giving faithfully to support the 'ministry' of TBN around the world. They give, they use public transportation or drive the same old Toyota they've had since 1982, and Matt Crouch drives a Porsche, paid for, ultimately, by the money sent in by little old ladies, struggling young families and middle-class blue-collar workers. If that doesn't smell fishy to you...

Excellent post!!!!

 

[Alpine]

Tell me mister smarty pants, if they don't ask for money, HOW are they going to stay on the air?

Those amazing things called...commercials?

of course, then the problem arises when the companies advertising on your network demand financial responsbility...

 

[JTM3]

Those amazing things called...commercials?

of course, then the problem arises when the companies advertising on your network demand financial responsbility...

Not to mention the type of commercials....

But, I'll confess the praise-a-thon's do get a little annoying; 'cause I'm not always sure if it's an anointed message or merely hype


[LOL, watching the people piling into this thread now ]

 

[lyonguard]

I love the cheesy junk these ministries give away. Miracle water, prayer cloths, paper weights with their ministry logos, etc. What do you do with some of the stuff once you get it?

 

[JTM3]

I love the cheesy junk these ministries give away. Miracle water, prayer cloths, paper weights with their ministry logos, etc. What do you do with some of the stuff once you get it?

were you being sarcastic?

 

[Alpine]

Not to mention the type of commercials....

But, I'll confess the praise-a-thon's do get a little annoying; 'cause I'm not always sure if it's an anointed message or merely hype


[LOL, watching the people piling into this thread now ]

And it's partly why I'm upset. you ever watch those praise a thons? Paul Crouch will have video from other countries about how their spreading the gospel and need more money to keep the network afloat?

Well, guess what? A lot of that money people is giving isn't going
to the ministry, it's going into the pockets of the executives! That is fraud! And it's wrong!

 

[JTM3]

And it's partly why I'm upset. you ever watch those praise a thons? Paul Crouch will have video from other countries about how their spreading the gospel and need more money to keep the network afloat?

Well, guess what? A lot of that money people is giving isn't going
to the ministry, it's going into the pockets of the executives! That is fraud! And it's wrong!

OK. Maybe they are doing that...do you have any more proof that you would like to post in my thread?[the new one]

Other than the LA Times article? Which may be true..