With all the talk about microphones being cut so the candidates cannot interrupt each other. I was thinking about the moderators. It is their job to ask the questions - not editorialize.

So I started this thread and every time the moderator asks a question and interrupts the candidate during his 2min reply. Simply write the candidates name in a simple post. We record it in real time then and we can compare the totals at the end.

Just an interesting experiment.

Hello folks. This is the Wall Street Journal's coverage of the Presidential Debate. I might not watch it, but as public service, here it is. The debate starts on June 27, 2024 at 8:00 PM CT or 9:00 PM ET (01:00 UTC on June 28, 2024 for the British folks). Use this thread to discuss the debate. Left, center and right are all welcome to join in the conversation.

Presidential Debate: June 27, 2024 (Age rating: 15+, due to heavy topic, and potential slander from both sides)
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AP News link below (no summary, as AP has strict copyright rules):

I stopped using Google for search years ago, but recently started using it again occasionally. The results page has something new on it, a section titled "People also ask", where it doesn't necessarily provide a link, but just answers related questions. I assumed this was done with AI, but today I received an answer which contained an opinion about food - "An American 'Full Yankee' is equivalent to the 'Full English' Breakfast. You can top this with brown sauce but no beans are allowed. If you want a breakfast with beans, go for the TexMex Breakfast Burrito which is much better than the British tomato flavoured mush."

So is this AI or not?

An Armenian citizen has been sentenced to a decade in prison in Iran under accusations of proselytizing, which is considered illegal under the country’s strict religious laws.

His conviction was not based on evidence but on the judge’s “personal intuition,” per the Islamic Penal Code of Iran, which permits judicial decisions on mere suppositions of criminal activities.

Hakop Gochumyan was sentenced earlier this month despite no clear evidence, the Catholic outlet Asia News reported.

Continued below.

I am wondering how Trump will do tonight. Will he attack and lose track of the topic? Will he discuss policy or water pressure?

I wonder as this was what he said at a recent rally:





Hillary Clinton said this about debating Trump:

Note the topic is Trump and how he will do tonight.

I prefer Real Clear Politics because it is inclusive across the spectrum.

Right now - hours before the debate:



Battleground states:

Over a thousand religious pilgrims have died of heat stroke in Mecca, news outlets tell us.

I have not seen a cartoon of the oceans boiling but that would be far more accurate than most of the editorial cartoons that I do see.

The evidence of global warming is all around us, yet I am often stunned by the arrogance of those who deny that it exists. At the least, many deny that global warming is caused by human activity.

One of the lines we hear is that carbon dioxide is just a part of the atmosphere. It is always been there and so is nothing to worry about. It is beneficial to plants. This notion has just enough truth in it to be dangerous. Is CO2 always harmless?


Contrary to this cheerful picture, carbon dioxide actually has a “permissible exposure limit” in workplaces.

<< The levels of CO2 in the air and potential health problems are ...

• 2,000–5,000 ppm: level associated with headaches, sleepiness, and stagnant, stale, stuffy air. Poor concentration, loss of attention, increased heart rate and slight nausea may also be present.

5,000 ppm: this indicates unusual air conditions where high levels of other gases could also be present. Toxicity or oxygen deprivation could occur. This is the permissible exposure limit for daily workplace exposures. >>

From a different source:

<< At 4%, CO2 levels can be fatal. >>

Why is CO2 potentially fatal to humans? It triggers the exhale reflex in the lungs. Above a certain level of CO2, you can only exhale.

The connection between carbon dioxide and global warming is straightforward to anyone who knows anything about chemistry. Carbon dioxide is O=C=O, oxygen double bond carbon, double bond oxygen. The carbon-oxygen double bond absorbs infrared rays on a wavelength crucial to the earth’s climate. Machines are in use every day that make use of this fact, namely infrared spectrometers.



Links
Toxicity: Wisconsin Department of Health Services
https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/chemical/carbondioxide.htm#:~:text=5%2C000%20ppm%3A%20this%20indicates%20unusual,harmful%20due%20to%20oxygen%20deprivation

Fatal Level at 4%

Carbon Dioxide Levels Chart

Discover what safe, elevated, and dangerous CO2 levels mean with our carbon dioxide levels chart. Learn how CO2 impacts indoor air quality and when action is needed.

www.co2meter.com

After mistakenly leaking the decision before releasing the final ruling, the Supreme Court ruled on Thursday that Idaho hospitals must perform abortions in certain emergencies.

The 6-3 decision, issued in Moyle v. United States, means that Idaho hospitals are compelled to perform abortions, despite it being illegal in the state.

The decision hinged on the court’s interpretation of the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA) that hospitals are required to provide abortions “when needed to stabilize a medical condition that seriously threatens a pregnant woman’s life or health.”

While Idaho law allows abortions only in cases to save the life of the mother, the court now holds that this is too narrow an exception.

Continued below.

People believe in a literal week of 24 hour days but no one can tell me when this week happened.

I have a very simple question. When did Genesis chapter one take place?

In 1658, Bishop James Ussher, an Anglican cleric and biblical scholar, wrote in his chronology "The Annals of the World" that the world began on October 23, 4004 BCE.

"In the beginning, God created heaven and earth, which beginning of time, according to this chronology, occurred at the beginning of the night which preceded the 23rd of October. If Adam was created on the SIXTH day that would be 23 plus 6 or Oct 29, 4004, So God rests for a day. Oct 30 then we see Adam in the Garden of Eden Oct 31 4004 BCE.

Genesis 2 7 "Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being.d"

So are we going back to Oct 29, 2004? Then we read: Genesis 2:8 "8And the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, where He placed the man He had formed. 9Out of the ground the LORD God gave growth to every tree that is pleasing to the eye and good for food. And in the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."

In Genesis 1 first God created the animals and then man. In Genesis chapter two first God created man and then He creates the animals. In Genesis chapter 1 Man was told to fill the earth and subdue "it". In Genesis chapter two man was told "15Then the LORD God took the man and placed him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate and keep it." So which is it? Fill the earth or cultivate the garden?

Next we are told: "18The LORD God also said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make for him a suitable helper.” In chapter one we have male and female given the whole earth. In Chapter two we have a man and a women give the garden of eden. In chapter one the animals are created first, in chapter two man is created and then the animals and then Eve.

The Sixth Day

24And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, land crawlers, and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. 25God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that crawls upon the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

26Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, and over all the earth itselfd and every creature that crawls upon it.”

27So God created man in His own image;

in the image of God He created him;

male and female He created them.e

28God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and every creature that crawls upon the earth.”

29Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every seed-bearing plant on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit contains seed. They will be yours for food. 30And to every beast of the earth and every bird of the air and every creature that crawls upon the earth—everything that has the breath of life in it—I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so.

31And God looked upon all that He had made, and indeed, it was very good.

And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

Exactly what is the timing of Justification ? When is one for whom Christ died Justified before God ? John Gill gives reasons why he believes that the saint is Justified before God, from everlasting. I concur with his sentiment and here's why, and of course in ursuit it is reasonably concluded why Justification before God is before Faith:

1. Faith is not the cause, but the fruit and effect of justification. The reason why we are justified, is not because we have faith; but the reason why we have faith is because we are justified. Was there no such blessing of grace as justification of life provided for the sons of men, there would be no such thing as faith in Christ bestowed upon them, nor, indeed, would there be any use for it; and though it is provided, yet since not for all men, therefore all men have not faith. The reason why some do not believe, is, because they are not of Christ's sheep; (John 10:26) they never were chosen in him, nor justified by him, but are justly left in their sins, and so to condemnation; the reason why others do believe, is, because they are ordained to eternal life, (Acts 13:48) have a justifying righteousness provided for them, and are justified by it, and shall never enter into condemnation and, in asserting this, I say no more than what Dr. Twisse, the famous Prolocutor to the Assembly of Divines, has said before me. His words are these: "Before faith the righteousness of Christ was ours, being in the intention of God the Father, and Christ the Mediator, wrought out for us; and, because wrought out for us, therefore God, in his own time, gives us grace of every kind, and among others, faith itself, and, at last, the crown of heavenly glory." And, a little after, he says: "Before faith and repentance the righteousness of Christ is applied unto us; since it is on the account of that, that we obtain efficacious grace, to believe in Christ and repent." Likewise the judicious Pemble writes to the same effect, when, observing a two-fold justification, he says, the one is "In foro divino, in God's sight, and this goes before all our sanctification; for even whilst the elect are unconverted, they are then actually justified, and freed from all sin, by the death of Christ, and God so esteems of them as free, and, having accepted of that satisfaction, is actually reconciled to them. By this justification, we are freed from the guilt of our sins; and because that is done away, God, in due time, proceeds to give us the grace of sanctification, to free from sin's corruption still inherent in our persons." The other is, "In foro conscientiae, in their own sense, which is but the revelation and certain declaration of God's former secret act of accepting Christ's righteousness to our justification." And Maccovius says, "That because that God justifies us, therefore, he gives us faith, and other spiritual gifts." Now, if justification is the cause, and faith the effect; then, as every cause is before its effect, and every effect follows its own cause, justification must be before faith, and faith must follow justification.

Will be sorry to see the old girl go.....

NASA will have a spacecraft from Elon Musk’s SpaceX guide the International Space Station’s destruction later this decade, the agency announced Wednesday.

We all know that God created all things bright and beautiful but what about the thing that arn't so good such as the;

Wasps, snakes, scorpions, thorns, poisonous apple trees & plants and last of all Satan.

King James Bible
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The deadly Manchineel apple tree;
Known as the most dangerous tree in the world, the manchineel tree is found along the sandy beaches and mangroves in tropical climates;

Christ and his followers drew parallels between the OT and the NT in order to demonstrate that he was the Messiah and the fulfillment of the prophecies.

*Is there anything in the OT about the manner of Christ's death? I e., on a cross or a tree or something that suggests that.

Also, could you say something about tree symbolism and stories in the bible, in both OT and NT and the significance of tree symbolism in Judaism and Christianity.

Thank you

Hello Everyone!

I have a question. I'll explain the situation first. I began seeing a girl almost 2 years ago. Things are progressing nicely, and we're now talking about engagement, marriage, children, etc. Here's the part I am seeking guidance on. She was married before. The marriage largely ended due to the former husband being an alcoholic. She kicked him out, he then when out and began seeing another woman, with whom he had a child. This was a significant period of time before I began seeing her. My concern is marrying her being adultery in the eyes of God. I've been praying about it, researching it, and my thought process is this:

1. Re-marriage is allowed in the Bible under certain circumstances, one of those being adultery. If he has gone out and had relations with another woman, having a kid with her, and entering into a relationship with her, in my eyes that is adultery, and thus would allow her to re-marry and me to marry her without committing adultery.

Am I right in this line of thinking? I've really been praying over this and the world wide web has a load of opinions on this. Seeking guidance. Thank you everyone!

No single Koine word corresponded 1-to-1 to the English word "like".

2 Corinthians 9:

7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves [G25] a cheerful giver.

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God likes a cheerful giver. God is fond of a cheerful giver. God finds pleasure in a cheerful giver.

In the NT, G25-agape love usually meant a noble kind of love but it had other nuances particularly outside of the Bible.

BDAG ἀγαπάω:

2 Cor 9:7.—Jesus’ affection for people Ἰ. ἠγάπησεν αὐτον J. liked him or was fond of him Mk 10:21 (displayed affection, caressed him has also been suggested;

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Contemporary English Version, Mark 10:

21 Jesus looked closely at the man. He liked [G25] him and said, "There's one thing you still need to do. Go sell everything you own. Give the money to the poor, and you will have riches in heaven. Then come with me."

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Ἀγαπῶ μῆλον means I love apple. There is nothing noble about that.

There was another word for "love": G5368, φιλέω, phileó. BDAG:

① to have a special interest in someone or someth., freq. with focus on close association, have affection for, like, consider someone a friend.

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John 21:

17 The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love [G5368 like] me?” Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love [G5368] me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love [G5368] you.” Jesus said, “Feed my sheep.

Click to expand...

Both agape-love and phileo-love carried a nuance of "like".

You don’t have to like her to love her. Really?

Right, you don't have to emotionally like her to nobly love her self-sacrificially. That's true. However, I would not completely divorce the liking aspect from agape or phileo. I would not emphasize that liking dimension either. It is not the primary or defining characteristic of agape love. If I agape-love her self-sacrificially, that itself would give me some pleasure, so I must have liked her in some way.

For the Father so agape-loved me that he gave his one and only Son, that if I believe in him, I shall not perish but have eternal life.

Before any of us became believers in and followers of Jesus Christ we were dead in the trespasses and sins in which we once walked when we were still under the control of Satan and of the flesh. We were separate from God and unable in our own flesh to be acceptable to God and to share in his holiness and righteousness. We were doomed to destruction, without hope, and with no way out of our slavery (bondage, addiction) to sin.

But, by God-provided, and God-gifted, and God-persuaded faith in Jesus Christ, which is not of our own doing (not of the will nor of the flesh of man), we were crucified with Christ in death to sin, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life in him, no longer to live as slaves to sin, but as slaves to God and to his righteousness. So sin is to no longer have mastery over our lives. For if we obey sin, it leads to death, not to life everlasting.

Hebrews 12:1-2; Ephesians 2:8-10; John 1:12-13; John 6:44; John 10:27-30; Romans 6:1-23; Luke 9:23-26; Titus 2:11-14; 1 Peter 2:24; Acts 26:18; Matthew 7:21-23; 1 John 1:5-10; 1 John 2:3-6; 1 John 3:4-10

For what does it say here? “You WERE dead in the trespasses and sins in which you ONCE WALKED” (past tense, not in the present). So as those who have been saved from our sins, delivered out of our bondage (slavery) to sin, and who have been given new lives in Christ Jesus to be lived for his glory and purposes in holy living, and in walks of obedience to his commands, we should no longer live as those who are addicted to sin.

We once followed the course of this world, but that is now history. We once lived in the passions of our flesh, but no more. We once walked in sin, but Jesus delivered us from our bondage to sin. We once carried out the desires of our flesh and minds, and so we were once children of wrath, like everyone else. But if we have died with Christ to sin, and we are now walking in obedience to his commands in holy living, all of that should be in our past.

Now this is not saying that we are now perfect in every way or that we will never fail again (see 1 John 2:1-2), but that we who believe in Jesus Christ, if our faith is genuine, should no longer be those who are living according to our flesh to obey its sinful desires. We should now be living for the Lord Jesus to please him in all that we are and say and do, and for his glory and purposes. For we should now be his possession to do his will, not ours.

For Jesus Christ, who knew no sin, became sin for us on that cross that we might die to sin and now live to righteousness, by his grace, in his power. He died that we might now live for him and no longer for self. And he shed his blood for us on that cross to buy us back for God (to redeem us) out of our lives of slavery to sin so that we will now serve him with our lives, and honor him with our bodies, and walk in his righteousness and holiness.

2 Corinthians 5:15,21; 1 Corinthians 6:19-20; 1 Peter 2:24; Romans 6:1-23

For the grace of God, which is bringing us salvation, is training us to renounce (say “No!” to) ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives while we wait for our Lord’s return. And the faith to believe in Jesus, which comes from God, is persuaded of God as to his holiness and righteousness, and of our sinfulness, and of our need to turn from our sins and to now walk in obedience to our Lord’s commands.

Titus 2:11-14; Romans 1:18-32; Acts 26:18; Luke 9:23-26; John 10:27-30

And, although not one of us can be saved by of our own fleshly works, we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. For Jesus Christ gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works, which are the works that God ordained and requires of us that we should walk in them.

Ephesians 2:10; Titus 2:11-14; 1 Corinthians 15:58; 2 Corinthians 9:8; Galatians 5:6; Philippians 2:12-13; Colossians 1:9-14; 2 Thessalonians 1:11-12; 2 Timothy 2:21; John 15:1-11; Titus 3:8; James 2:17

As the Deer

By Martin J. Nystrom
Based off Psalm 42:1

As the deer panteth for the water
So my soul longeth after You
You alone are my heart's desire
And I long to worship You

You alone are my strength, my shield
To You alone may my spirit yield
You alone are my heart's desire
And I long to worship You

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God sets the sun, moon & all the stars IN the firmament


We read in Amos 9:6..



King James Bible
And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.

King James Bible
Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

King James Bible
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

King James Bible
Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?

Psalm 104:5​

He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved.

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So what are your views on the Firmament ?

Bolivia’s President Luis Arce called on the country to “organize and mobilize against the coup d’état, in favor of democracy” after soldiers and armored military vehicles positioned themselves around governmental buildings in La Paz on Wednesday.

“We cannot allow coup attempts to take Bolivian lives once again. We want to urge everyone to defend democracy,” Arce said from the presidential residence, Casa Grande.

Armored vehicles were seen ramming into the doors of Bolivia’s government palace, according to Associated Press

I met a pastor on the street who was introducing himself and inviting me to his church. I explained I was Catholic and was outside praying the rosary. This led to a discussion about my Catholics beliefs, the rosary and Mary.

He simply said that you can't pray to Mary, shes dead.

I tried to respond, but could not as he suddenly had to leave and tend to his little kids playing outside.

So I came home and thought that I would ask you what you would say in such a circumstance, as a non denominational pastor inviting you to his new church, right there on the street?

Would you have been able to summon up a proper response, and say it in love?

Dead people apparently are in heaven where they cannot hear us.

This cant be true, but how to argue that they CAN hear us and that its not wrong to pray to Mary and the Saints?

Traditionalist Catholic websites and media began discussing last week what they describe as “persistent rumors” of a planned Vatican document, which is supposedly meant to suppress entirely the celebration of the extraordinary form of the liturgy, often called the “Traditional Latin Mass.”



Credit: Thoom / Shutterstock.
The current round of speculation began in earnest when Rorate Caeli, a traditionalist website, carried a post last week citing “the most credible sources” to say that a “Vatican document with a stringent, radical, and final solution banning the Traditional Latin Mass” exists and was being pushed for papal approval.

The post did not include details about the alleged document’s provisions, who had drafted it, or on whose instructions, but did claim that “the same ideologues who imposed [the 2021 motu proprio] Traditionis Custodes and its implementation… are still frustrated with its apparently slow results” and were pressing for news restrictions by Pope Francis.

The Pillar has not been able to confirm the existence of such a document. But curial officials in Rome hear many of the same rumors, and pay attention to American Catholic media of all kinds, so many of them are now discussing whether the Vatican will really impose new restrictions on the more ancient forms of the liturgy — and if so, what any new policies might hope to achieve.

And some officials said that in their view, any new policies will have to be weighed carefully against the pushback they provoke, both from those committed to the TLM, and those concerned with the reach of papal authority.

Continued below.

Then-President Trump arrived at that first matchup in Cleveland seemingly determined to steamroll Biden at every turn, leaving the Democratic candidate exasperated and moderator Chris Wallace scrambling to regain control.

Now, in 2024, many of the rules insisted on this time by Biden’s team — and agreed to by the Trump campaign — are designed to minimize the potential of a chaotic rerun. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. There will be no studio audience to chime in with hoots and jeers.


While I like the "Muting of the mic" approach (due to Trump's non-stop interruptions the last time...and duct taping his mouth shut when it's not his turn isn't an option)

Not sure how I feel about the "no audience" provision this go-around...

I feel like the combination of that "no audience" rule, combined with the the fact that it's being hosted by CNN (and moderated by two of their anchors), lends itself to the perception (and possibly the reality) of "running cover for Biden".

A) I'm assuming there were some concerns about some pro-Palestinian protestors showing up and "making a scene" (in ways that are unflattering to Biden)
B) Whether or not they'd actually do it, the perception will be that due to CNN controlling the feed (and the delay), they'll selectively cut Biden moments that contain mumbling or awkward pauses. An audience being there would at least give the perception that there's people there who could keep them honest after the fact and provide details about whether or not there were certain moments that didn't make it to TV.

If Jesus is the cornerstone as written in the book of Isaiah, then why did Jesus then turn around and tell Peter that he was the stone on which the church would be built?

A non-denominational pastor just told me that the rock was Jesus himself and not Peter.

I was left perplexed as to what to say.

Why would the rock tell someone else that they are the rock?

I want to be able to answer these tough questions when put upon me as to why I believe in the one true church.

Matthew 16:18

And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church,* and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
19l I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven.* Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Isaiah 28:16

Therefore, thus says the Lord GOD: See, I am laying a stone in Zion, a stone that has been tested, A precious cornerstone as a sure foundation; whoever puts faith in it will not waver.