• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Donald John Trump: I hate Taylor Swift

Congenitally petulant former guy declared on his failing platform, "I HATE TAYLOR SWIFT!” - yes, in all caps.


Last month, Trump shared an AI-generated image of Swift in an Uncle Sam outfit giving a fake endorsement to his campaign, along with other images promoting the idea that he’d won over some of her fanbase. “I accept,” he said in posting the images. He's since denied knowing anything about the images...
...“I was not a Taylor Swift fan,” Trump said.

Poor Donald, reduced to first pretending the pop star endorses him, then, when exposed by her endorsing his opponent, he whines like a toddler denied candy.

Christian leaders call for prayers, enhanced protection after second Trump assassination attempt

Former President Donald Trump escaped a second assassination attempt unharmed Sunday after the Secret Service fired at a man attempting to shoot him while he was playing golf at the Trump International Golf Club in West Palm Beach, Florida, thereby thwarting the intended act of violence. While the gunman escaped, a witness identified the license plate number of his getaway vehicle and he was later arrested in Martin County, Florida.

Sunday’s assassination attempt marks the second time in the past two months that the Republican nominee for president has found himself the target of gunfire. At a campaign rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, two months ago, an assassin’s bullet grazed the candidate’s ear while one rally attendee was fatally killed and others were wounded by gunfire.

Prominent Christian leaders in the United States have reacted to the latest assassination attempt against Trump, who remains locked in a tight race with Vice President Kamala Harris ahead of the 2024 presidential election.

Continued below.

Fact check: Harris campaign social media account has repeatedly deceived with misleading edits and captions


A social media account run by Vice President Kamala Harris’ campaign has been repeatedly deceptive.

The @KamalaHQ account, which has more than 1.3 million followers on the X social media platform formerly known as Twitter, has made a habit of misleadingly clipping and inaccurately captioning video clips to attack former President Donald Trump.

Melania Trump questions response to Trump assasination attempt: 'Silence around it feels heavy'

Suspect in 2nd assassination attempt identified as Ryan Wesley Routh


Melania Trump
Melania Trump | Screenshot: X.com

Former first lady Melania Trump warned Americans about government encroachment on their freedoms and discussed the July assassination attempt against her husband in two video messages promoting her memoir days before a Secret Service stopped a second potential assassin targeting former President Donald Trump.

In her first video released last Tuesday, Melania Trump said, "The attempt to end my husband's life was a horrible, distressing experience," referring to the July 13 assassination attempt during a Trump campaign rally in Butler, Pennsylvania.

Thomas Matthew Crooks, the assailant, fired eight shots into the crowd, resulting in the tragic death of former fire chief Corey Comperatore and wounding two others, marine veteran David Dutch and retiree James Copenhaver. A bullet pierced Trump's ear.

Continued below.
  • Agree
Reactions: Vambram

Ok... who is right?

Paul says
Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

Yeshua says
Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment.

I don't think you can fulfill the law with just loving your neighbor. If we do not look up, our world shrinks to just those around us.

ABC Moderator Linsey Davis Admits: ‘Fact-checking’ Was Only Planned for Trump


ABC News’ Linsey Davis, one of two moderators for last week’s presidential debate, admitted to the Los Angeles Times that the plan was only to fact-check former President Donald Trump, and not Vice President Kamala Harris.

Harris Slammed Over Disastrous Solo Interview With Local Station


“She is the Michael Scott of presidential candidates but with no endearing qualities whatsoever,” said political commentator Sean Parnell.

^_^

Cell Phones, Social Media, Conspiracy Theories, and Lifestyle


Note that the British Christians started "Sunday school" in order to keep idle children busy, on Sunday. This was an innovation.

It is true that the laws against child labor, were an innovation in England. Most of the world at the time, allowed unrestricted child labor. Some countries still do.

The more difficult problem, today, is that we have had "electronic screen" generations since the millenials. And only now, the NIH and other researchers are coming out with serious studies showing the negative effects of kids who were raised by cell phones. As is the case of multiple generations of poor catechism, it is the multigenerational aspect of the problem that is a killer.

To correct the use by children of social media, requires a LIFESTYLE change by both parents and children. And frankly, I don't see many PARENTS ready to give up the babysitting cell phones, and create a different lifestyle for their kids. We will be going through the same debate with cell phones, that we went through with single mothers. Now that many Christians think that the phenomenon of single mothers is normal, why bother with all the orthodox Christian teaching about the constitution of a Christian family?

Educators are ready to ditch all cell phones in the classroom, because of the disruption to lesson plans. Educators already have an alternate culture to offer kids, in the classroom. But I don't see Christian parents as being willing to ditch all the electronic game screens, and create a much healthier lifestyle for their kids.

And, as with the problem of poor catechism, it is now multiple generations of pastors who are not willing to provide high quality teaching for their congregations. The congregation members don't want real teaching. The pastors don't want to go through the effort of producing high quality material.
---------- ----------

It may be that Christian schools will have the good sense to ban cell phones from school. Some parents may be offended. Christian schools may require students to do aggressive reading, and learn how to take notes on paper. Some parents may be offended.

But even in Christian schools, there have been multiple generations of educators who rely on videos, and cannot seem to recognize the benefits of using paper books. Language skills plummet, when books are discarded. And the ability of students to visualize while reading, is gradually lost. At some point, many students can no longer visualize what is being described in the great books. And this includes descriptions of what characters are thinking, and intend, and perceive. The dimension of the inner life of people, is lost, when books are not read. Many in the electronic screen generations, cannot even imagine what I am saying.

When Christians can no longer read, they can no longer read Scripture. They can no longer read the biographies and autobiographies of Christians in past centuries. This destroys the communion of the saints (and, an appreciation of history). The concept of our shared reality, is torn apart. Electronic reality has no required overlap with physical human shared reality.
---------- ----------

Not allowing children under the age of 13, from being on social media, and banning cell phones during school hours, would disrupt current American culture. It would also be helpful for congregations to ban conspiracy theories, and to promote legislation that would openly allow businesses to NOT hire people who were distracted by CONSPIRACY THEORIES. After all, being endlessly attracted by conspiracy theories, is a mark of an inability to research truth, and reject gossip and speculation -- this ability to discern truth, is a key part of critical thinking, and no one should be arguing that businesses should not be allowed to discriminate AGAINST hiring people with defective critical thinking skills.

With the current growing pile of evidence underlining the dangers of kids using social media, why would it be wrong for businesses to discriminate AGAINST job applicants who continue to spends hours a day, online, in gaming and social media sites???

With the current trendy offerings of "critical thinking" skills in lower education, why should educators NOT openly point out the dysfunctional reasoning methods, that accompany getting entangled in CONSPIRACY THEORIES???
---------- ----------

What we have in Christian congregations, is a lack of vision. Or, more precisely, a multi-generational LOSS OF VISION. And because the problem is multi-generational, the electronic screen generations do not realize what they have lost, or what they could regain.

What Christian schools and congregations will have the vision, to painfully regain what has been lost?

RFK Jr., Tulsi Gabbard blast Dems as ‘warmongers,’ ‘party of censorship’ while stumping for Trump in Arizona

GLENDALE, Ariz. – Former Democrats Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and Tulsi Gabbard blasted their one-time party as “warmongers” and “the party of censorship” while stumping for Donald Trump in Arizona Saturday.


“Today it’s become the party of war, it’s become the party of surveillance, it’s become the party of censorship,” Kennedy, 70, told the crowd at Arizona Christian University in Glendale.


“It’s no longer the party that I recognized.”

Gabbard, a veteran and former Hawaii rep who sought the Democratic nomination for president in 2020, frequently noted in her remarks that foreign policy was behind her decision to leave the party in 2022 and back Trump this election.

"How could I […] align with a party that stands for tyranny and war?” she said, before referring to Democrats as an “elite cabal” with “warmongers.”

  • Agree
Reactions: Vambram

"God doesn't owe you anything" is a destructive doctrine.

I've heard it so many times especially if I express dissatisfaction with someone else's idea of what heaven is like (in general the idea that what you do in heaven is endlessly praise God for "all the good things He did for you" on this cursed Earth and cursed body), I've believed it, I've even parroted it to other people and especially parroted it at myself.
What profit has it wrought? Nothing good. It has created self loathing, depression, and doubt in the goodness of God, created a version of God that just sits on His laurels and basks in worship and if you don't like it, you can go get tortured in hell.

The reality? God is better than that, and not just for some greatest expression of Stockholm syndrome in the universe scenario where He can torture you forever but doesn't and you're just thankful you're not being tortured, but rather because He has promised to provide, to compensate losses, to reward, and to establish a relationship far greater than a slave and his Master that the other doctrine builds up. A slave master doesn't owe the slave anything, doesn't compensate, etc. You're owned, you're property, and you work and just be thankful you don't get whipped.

But God has made promises, and therefore does owe you things. Not because you deserve them, or anything to do with you, but because He promised them and therefore if He does not owe them and can hold back on them, it would reflect negatively on His own character, name and goodness. It would defile His glory, it would paint Him a liar and a hypocrite.

Not only does God promise eternal life but also promises:

Matthew 19
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.
Now the first promise there is to the 12 disciples but to everyone who follows Jesus there's the second promise, God has promised to compensate what you lose, or forsake to follow Him.
and many people will teach, that that compensation is just seeing Jesus on His throne and praising Him endlessly for letting you go through all that suffering .
that paints God to be bait and switching people. He doesn't. It is also not just Eternal life, Eternal life is an and there, it's lumped in with other things, It's Eternal life AND 100 fold what you lost.

John 14
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Too often have I heard "heaven's not about you it's about Jesus" and makes it seem like if you don't like THEIR idea of heaven then tough luck you can just tough it out stoically for all eternity (or go to hell, that's a common retort too). But Jesus has promised to make a place for you a place you will be at home in, a place that won't be uncomfortable to be in. This really hits home with me because, I've never really felt at home anywhere, I have felt like a refugee everywhere I have ever been, and other people's descriptions of heaven never felt like home either. The one time I did read about a place, that actually seemed like it might be home, is Eden, and Isaiah 65, a place where God has made for humans to dwell, and He would provide for them, blessing them, hearing their supplications before they even voice them, and providing.
So this idea that God made a place just for Himself and you just have to tough it out, hurt, because it seemed like I'd never be in a place that felt like home, truly home.
On a tangent, when people say "you don't deserve to be there" and stress that, it translates to "you don't belong there" and reinforces the idea that you will never be somewhere you belong or fit in.
Or they'll parrot the idea that God will "change you" to like the place, like instead of making a place for you He'll make you for a place, divine brainwash, though they hate that term being used because it has negative connotations.
But that's not the promise, the promise is, a place prepared for you.

Speaking of Isaiah 65, more promises
21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them.
24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
That 1. What work you do on the New Earth will be yours, you won't be paying taxes, tributes, working for an employer's profit, what you do, you will enjoy the fruits of it.
2 The curse on the bearing of children is undone, I don't know how this works without marriage, but there are children, and offspring, and they are blessed, no longer born on a cursed Earth.
3. That God will hear and answer prayers before you even say them

Jesus lists several promises of what overcomers will be given in Revelation 2 and 3, including delegated authority, a new name, etc
and ultimately this from God the Father

Revelation 21
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
All things. Everything provided, and a promise of a relationship that is not just master and slave, but God and son.
A Father expects to be obeyed
A Father expects to be respected
but a Father provides, a Father protects, a Father has joy in His children, a Father gives gifts and asks nothing in return but to be thankful. A Father teaches, a Father loves, a Father is patient, A Father is there to answer questions, and is a very personal relationship.
These are things that a Father owes, not because a child is so great at being a great and obedient child, but because He is a great Father.

Trump is safe after Secret Service opened fire at suspected person with firearm near his golf club

WASHINGTON (AP) — A man with an AK-style rifle pointed the firearm’s muzzle into Donald Trump’s golf club in West Palm Beach, Florida, as the former president was playing a round, prompting the U.S. Secret Service to open fire, according to three law enforcement officials. The former president is safe and unharmed, and the FBI says it is investigating “what appears to be an attempted assassination” of the Republican presidential candidate.

Continued below.

Prayer request - thanks

As a faithful Christian it’s been said there are many voices that seek control of our minds. Everyone gets hit with something, and everything from self doubt, to anger, judgment, and so on. Lately I’ve felt like a ping pong ball being bounced between good and evil.

I trust the Word. As a believer I know things are not as bad as they seem. I would like to request some prayers during this strange season that I’m in.
Thank you

Springfield is Emblematic of America's Immigration Death Spiral



The city's residents needed someone to believe in them. Between 1970 and the early 2000s, Springfield's population had declined by over 30,000. The Greater Springfield area had suffered a 27 percent drop in median income. For a city and region devastated by manufacturing jobs offshored to Mexico and Asia, this was exciting news.

But today, a new threat is endangering the livelihood of Springfield's citizens: Employers are actively displacing the domestic workforce by hiring newly-arrived immigrants from Haiti. All this at a time when 7 million American men between the ages of 25 and 55 are unemployed, and almost three quarters of the U.S.'s employment growth has come from immigrants since 2019.

And not everyone is embarrassed to admit it.

"I wish I had 30 more [he currently employs 30 Haitian workers," CEO Jamie McGregor of Springfield-based McGregor Metal, explained it this way during his PBS News Hour interview. "Our Haitian associates come to work every day. They don't have a drug problem. They'll stay at their machine; they'll achieve their numbers. They're here to work. And so, in general, that's a stark difference from what we're used to in our community."
How did Springfield get here? Simple: Mass immigration and chain migration during the Biden administration, as a direct result of Biden's immigration policy.

What's particularly vexing is the U.S. government is funneling taxpayer money to non-governmental organizations (NGOs) who help resettle these immigrants and assist them in applying for welfare in the form of food stamps, Medicaid, and housing.
Coming from a country where the hourly wage is around 60 cents, any Haitian would be ecstatic about working in Ohio and earning a minimum wage of $10.45 an hour. Sadly, American workers can't compete for the jobs they're taking at those wages or survive at the resulting lower standards of living.
Samuel Gompers, father of the American labor movement and founder of what's known today as the AFL-CIO Union understood all too well the conundrum of a "rapidly revolving labor supply at low wages to a regular supply of American wage earners at fair wages." Companies like McGregor's are thriving on "labor supply at low wages," knowing full well the Haitians they've hired won't ever complain about their pay nor attempt to unionize.
Let's be clear about what's going on here: Corporations are maximizing their profits while the government is socializing the costs at the taxpayers' expense.

Shameful love

Is an experience like-

I meeaan...I don't want you to think that I like you or anything...so I'm going to mask my identity when talking to you. Wouldn't wanna put that idea in your head...so I'm going to play...because I'm not 100% sure about it...so I'm going to have One Foot In and One Foot Out.

Does this sound mature in any way? Does this person sound like they're certain with what they want?

My radical two cents...

Over the years I have come to understand that intellectual blindness/ignorance is a wilful choice. Most of us choose to remain blind/ignorant in certain areas of our life. I do not refer to this in a demeaning manner, but as a simple observation. I am just sa guilty of this and still am. This isn't seen any more clearly than in the gender issues going on today. But, that isn't what this is about. This is about Christianity and what we have been led to believe and still choose to believe. If you've read any of my other posts, you've probably noticed that I don't conform to the current theological understanding of salvation. However, you should've also noticed that I don't just use scripture to back up what I'm saying, but I also try and explain why in a logical and common sense manner the reasons I believe what I believe.

What do I mean that I don't conform to current theological understanding of salvation? I mean that I believe it to be incorrect. I'm not saying we can't be saved by believing what we currently believe. But, we could definitely have a far greater acceptance of Christianity, and as a result, a far greater number of people receiving salvation.
Yes, I am well aware that Jesus said "Everyone will hate you because of me" Luke 21:17. We like to use this in defence of why we are so hated. The problem is, today, most people outside the scope of any religion don't even know who Jesus is. The problem isn't Jesus, the problem is our lack of love which, ultimately, stems from incorrect theology.

Lets go back to the fall of Adam. One of the first core beliefs we learned was that physical/human death came into the world as a result of Adam's sin. Which ultimately leads to the belief that Jesus' physical death on the cross paid for the sins of the world. We then choose to ignore all the contradictions and holes this leaves us in scripture. So instead, we focus on sin as being the main problem. In fact, coming in a close second to Jesus dying for our sins, dealing with our sins is the next main focus of Christianity and therefore, should be the focus of the rest of the world too.

Human death did not enter the world through Adam's sin. Death was a natural part of human life right from the start. Hence, the tree of life and the commandment to eat from it, Gen 2:16-17. Why would I choose to believe something that appears to contradict Rom 5:12? There are many reasons, but I'll focus on just two.

First, evil only produces more evil. If death came through sin, then death also must be an evil. Yet, death is always used in the forgiveness of sins. Seems rather contradictory to the character of God for him to use evil to forgive evil. Second, is the fact that the tree of life is able to give everlasting life to a sinner, Gen 3:22. Lets say, for example, you came into possession of a new drug capable of making someone live forever. You give this drug to a person who is slowly dying and will eventually die from terminal cancer. Except, the drug cannot cure the cancer. What would be the outcome? The man would eventually die. Unless the drug is able to cure any and all potential threats of death, it's rather useless. So, if death is the result of sin, then it would be impossible for the tree of life to give everlasting life to a sinner when their sin will ultimately lead to death.

The death Adam suffered was spiritual death, not physical. And just as important, his spiritual death was the immediate punishment given by God, Rom 6:23, Prov 10:16.
When Paul speaks of sin entering the world through one man and death through sin Rom 5:12, he isn't speaking of the world in a literal sense. He is speaking withing the context of man's relationship with God. We know this because sin was already in the world- The serpent deceiving Eve. The analogy I like to use here is marriage. In a marriage there is no hate, even though the world is full of hate. However, given the right deception, hate could enter into that marriage and destroy it. This is exactly what happened. The serpent deceived man, man sinned, and the relationship with God was destroyed.

There is this concept of original sin which is the idea that we are all guilty of Adam's sin. It's based mostly on Rom 5:12-21 and sometimes Psalm 51:5. We are not guilty of Adam's sin. In fact, sin isn't even the focus of what Paul is peaking of here in Romans 5:12. Paul's focus is on the fact that we are dead as a result of Adam's sin. He says that sin entered the world through one man and through sin 'death,' and death came to all men. Death is what's at issue here, not our sin. He says death came to all men because we were all in Adam, we all come from Adam, and therefore we all suffered death as a result of Adam's sin. This is why our image is now different from that of God's image, Gen 5:3. Spiritual death is what separates us from God, not our sin.

When Adam sinned, God being true to his very nature, had to punish that sin. That punishment was immediate spiritual death. This is extremely important because any sin Adam may have committed after that, the consequences had already taken place. He was already separated from God. And since we all come into the world in the image and likeness of Adam, spiritually dead, our sin isn't the issue here. It's the fact that we are dead and separated from God.

Sin is not a physical issue, it is a spiritual and a moral issue. The spiritual issue deals with our relationship with God, while the moral issue deals with our relationship with our neighbours. I am only focusing on the spiritual issue as it deals with our understanding of salvation.

Now, if we are not guilty because of Adam's sin, would we not still be guilty of our own sin? Yes! Obviously! But again, we are already dead and were dead even before our first sin. So logically, salvation must be the receiving of new spiritual life and not the forgiveness of sins. However, if the wages of sin is spiritual death, then before salvation can even be offered, the punishment for sin must be taken care of or we can never be saved. You see, if you were given new life, but your sins were not forgiven, then you would just die the very next sin you commit. Likewise, if your sins are forgiven, but you are still dead, then you're obviously not saved, which just so happens to be the present state of the unsaved.

In old testament times the high priest would offer a sacrifice for the sins of the people. To do so he would need to enter into the Holy of Holies, into the presence of God, to offer this sacrifice. There was a curtain that separated this room from the rest of the temple. This curtain symbolized the separation between man and God. No one but the high priest, and only once a year, could he enter this room, and only after he himself was cleansed of his own sins. Basically, without being cleansed of his own sins, the high priest could not come into the presence of God to offer a sacrifice for forgiveness for the people. Today, anyone can come to God for salvation. So what changed? Everything has changed, but at the same time nothing has changed.

Everything has changed- At the very moment Christ died on the cross, God tore that temple curtain in two. God did this to show the world that the punishment for sins has been taken care of. As a result, anybody can now come to God for salvation. Jesus, paying the penalty for all sin, satisfied God's just judgment over sin. There is now no longer any penalty for sin to be handed out by God. Jesus took it all. This act brought forgiveness to the entire human race. Simply put, everyone who has come into the world from the cross forward has come into the world already forgiven. But remember, you can be forgiven and still be spiritually dead. That is, forgiven but unsaved.

And nothing has changed- If we need to come to God for salvation first and then we are forgiven, or we must ask to be forgiven before we can be saved, then we are all screwed. If we have not already been forgiven, cleansed of our sins, then no one can approach God for salvation. You cannot ask God to forgive you your sins when you must first be forgiven your sins before you can even approach God for forgiveness. It's a lot like "I cannot get a job because I have no experience, but I have no experience because I can't get a job." As I similarly stated earlier, salvation is not found in getting your sins forgiven. It is found in receiving new life. This new life is found in the resurrection of Jesus, not his death, 1Cor 15:17.

I mentioned that sin is not a physical issue. If it were, then yes, physical death would be the penalty for sin. But, if this were true, then why does our own death not pay the penalty for our own sins? The idea that Christ's physical death paid the penalty for sins is rather silly when you take the time to think about it. Take the worst sin you've ever committed to date. It was paid for at the cross. Take the worst sin every single human to ever exist has committed, collectively, and compare that to yours. Would your worst sin even be considered a drop in the bucket, at that point? Jesus paid for those. Now, take all your sins collectively, and compare that to the collective sins of the entire human race. Again, would yours even be considered a drop in the bucket? Jesus paid for these as well. Okay, now take the thief on the cross beside Jesus, who is being crucified for being a thief. Was the punishment Jesus experienced much worse than what the thief experienced? To some degree, yes. But relatively speaking, the physical punishment Jesus suffered paying for the sins of the entire human race would only amount to possibly God raising an eyebrow, if even that.

Jesus' physical death did not pay for our sins. Sin, in relation to salvation, is a spiritual matter. If the punishment for sin is spiritual death for man, then Jesus would need to suffer the same thing to pay the penalty for man's sin. This is a punishment far worse than anything man could ever dish out, and man can dish out some pretty horrific punishment. For the first time in all of eternity, Jesus world be separated from God. Even the thought of it left Jesus sweating blood while praying in the Garden of Gethsemane, Luke 22:44. So, if Jesus' physical death didn't pay for our sins, then why his physical resurrection? Simple. How else was he to prove he was God if not through his physical resurrection?

John 14:6. This single verse is a prime example of why Christianity is so hated. Out of what we think is love, we like to proclaim that Jesus is the only way to God, If you don't believe in Jesus, well... then it sucks to be you. When in reality, we are saying this out of ignorance. The most common response is "What of those who have never heard of Jesus?" My thoughts exactly! What of those who have never heard of Jesus, like Abraham for example, but still they believe in God? Are they also outta luck? If this is what Jesus is meaning, that he is the only way to the father, then him saying "No one comes to the father except through me" assumes there is or was another way to the father. Yet, scripture is clear that there has never been any other way to the father except through faith. It also assumes that Jesus and the father are not the same, John 10:30, and that Jesus is somehow less than the father, John 14:8-11, John 1:1. However, when you take into account the fact that everyone is already forgiven of their sins, this verse then takes on a whole new meaning.

Saying he is 'exclusively' the only way to the father is like me saying that by plane is, exclusively, the only way from LA to Miami. If you do not come by plane, you cannot get to Miami. That would be ridiculous. There are many ways to get from LA to Miami. By plane, automobile, motorcycle, bicycle, walking, train, boat, even a hot-air balloon. Some, obviously, will take far longer than others, but all will get you there. The reason they will all get you there is because whatever mode of transpertation you choose to take, they all have one thing in common. They are all forms of travel.

Jesus is saying however you choose to come to the father, regardless if it's believing in him or if you've never even heard of him, it will have been through him. Because he paid for the sins of the world, anyone can now come to God for salvation. Therefore, anyone who does, they will have come through/by Jesus regardless of what mode of travel they chose.

There is so much more I would like to say regarding our salvation, but I'm thinking this is already far too long a read. So, I will just leave it at that. I hope this helps you in your understanding with regards to salvation.

I want to make sure we have moved on.

Messianic people shouldn't argue about the spelling of His Name or judge anyone who doesn't spell His Name, the same way that we do. ~ The stupid division should be done, if not, it needs to stop.

There is no absolute proof, regarding pronounciation, spelling, or linquistic wrangelings that will satisfy us, so let us move on and let the variations stand until His return.

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