What is your end times view on the rapture?

POLL: What is your end times view on the rapture?

  • No Rapture

    Votes: 16 29.6%
  • Pretribulation

    Votes: 22 40.7%
  • Pre-Wrath/6th Seal

    Votes: 2 3.7%
  • Midtribulation

    Votes: 2 3.7%
  • Posttribulation

    Votes: 12 22.2%

  • Total voters
    54

Laureate

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You lost me.

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with Ea'huah as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Ea'huah is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Ea'huah will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." [2nd Peter 3:8-10]

When Peter mentions a day being as a thousand years, he is partially referencing a passage in Psalms;

"For a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night." [Psalms 90:4]

The children of Israel divide a day into eight three hour watches (8X3=24hrs);

Though no Man knows the Day or Hour, but the Father, Y'shua did say that a Faithful Steward would be able to ascertain which Watch in the the night that he would return.

The parable of five wise, and five foolish reveal that he shall return during the third Watch specifically from Midnight to Three am.

Which also reminds me of what David said in Psalms;

"At midnight I will rise to give thanks unto thee because of thy righteous judgments." [Psalms 119:62]

Then of course there is the manner in which the number three follows Christ from the craddle unto the grave.

If he rose on the third day, then it stands to reason he will return sometime in the third millennium, it was still dark before sunrise when he rose from his tomb, therefore I suspect no one will recognize him when he initially appears, not until the sun rises.
 
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Psalm3704

And He shall give you the desires of your heart.
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I can safely assume you are now living on earth.
This Bible passage speaks in the past tense, as Christians, our citizenship is in heaven, but plainly we stay on earth. As it says; the spirits of the just are there, not the bodies. This scripture in no way says that Christians will be raptured to heaven.
Again, your rapture view leads you into further error.

You're right Keras, you are wasting your time by cherry picking scriptures again, citing only those verses you want to quote to promote your own doctrine. Where in the bible --- anywhere --- does it show God having destroyed earth a second time? Or heaven and earth once? This is not past tense.

Hebrews 12:26-29 New King James Version (NKJV)
26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also heaven.” 27 Now this, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Are you not aware that you cannot appear before God in a corruptible mortal body? To be raptured into heaven, you have to take on immortality, not an earthly body. That passage is correct when Paul used the word spirit. As well as the words church in heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:50 Good News Translation (GNT)
What I mean, friends, is that what is made of flesh and blood cannot share in God's Kingdom, and what is mortal cannot possess immortality.









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Psalm3704

And He shall give you the desires of your heart.
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If this statement is true (as written above) then Jesus Lied as he did not ascend to his father until the third day after the cross.

Try this on for size
"I assure you today, you will be with me in paradise."
Jesus talking today, promises future event.

The Bible was written without punctuation, paragraphs, verses or Chapters.

I copied and pasted that verse directly from the New Living Translation bible.

“I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Luke 23:43 New Living Translation (NLT)
And Jesus replied, “I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

If you believe you're more skillful of how this passage should be written over those who wrote the New Living Translation, can you provide us with your credentials?

Plus can you correct all the other translations as they all appear to be wrong by your standard as all also seem to indicate Today as the day Christ died on the cross and not a future day.

{book-chapter-title}:{verse-number-start} - {passage-text}










.
 
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Psalm3704

And He shall give you the desires of your heart.
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That Paul is speaking of himself is evident from 1) the fact that this reference to visions is in the midst of an account of events connected with his own life and ministry; 2) the fact that in verse 7 he designates these visions and revelations as being made directly to himself; and 3) the fact that he uses the third person in order to avoid the appearance of boosting.

Congratulations on being the only one that knew this.

2 Corinthians 12:2 New Living Translation (NLT)
I was caught up to the third heaven fourteen years ago. Whether I was in my body or out of my body, I don’t know—only God knows.

But I wouldn't be so quick jumping to hasty conclusions without sufficient evidences as other translations indicate the 3rd person as someone other than Paul. You need more evidence than this.

2 Corinthians 12:2 King James Version (KJV)
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, ( whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; ) such an one caught up to the third heaven.











.
 
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LastSeven

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Being taken up to held elsewhere temporarily is not a resurrection (per-say)... We usually only call a resurrection a resurrection when it is into a bodily form to be here on the earth, that doesn't happen till the last day...

So then you must not think 1 Corinthians 15 refers to "the rapture", because clearly this is the resurrection of the last day but you want to split this event into two separate events.

So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.


 
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LastSeven

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"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with Ea'huah as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Ea'huah is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Ea'huah will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." [2nd Peter 3:8-10]

When Peter mentions a day being as a thousand years, he is partially referencing a passage in Psalms;

"For a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night." [Psalms 90:4]

The children of Israel divide a day into eight three hour watches (8X3=24hrs);

Though no Man knows the Day or Hour, but the Father, Y'shua did say that a Faithful Steward would be able to ascertain which Watch in the the night that he would return.

The parable of five wise, and five foolish reveal that he shall return during the third Watch specifically from Midnight to Three am.

Which also reminds me of what David said in Psalms;

"At midnight I will rise to give thanks unto thee because of thy righteous judgments." [Psalms 119:62]

Then of course there is the manner in which the number three follows Christ from the craddle unto the grave.

If he rose on the third day, then it stands to reason he will return sometime in the third millennium, it was still dark before sunrise when he rose from his tomb, therefore I suspect no one will recognize him when he initially appears, not until the sun rises.
o.k. so what's your opinion on the meaning of the thousand year reign. Literal or not?
 
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Aryeh

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I am curious of the end times views on this forum. I would appreciate if you would vote on this poll to see what the majority view is. Thanks.

***Note: Please don't debate views or argue with others on this thread. There are plenty of threads for that. If you want to post your view, that is great. I know this is a touchy subject for many, I just know it can get heated. I mainly want a poll to just see how views are split.

Rapture: either it doesn't happen at all (and we all endure, including saints) or it happens at the absolute last event - the last trump (vial, and/or seals.)

I don't believe anyone will be raptured, but I think there is an event being planned to stage a type of rapture.
 
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LastSeven

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I copied and pasted that verse directly from the New Living Translation bible.

“I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Luke 23:43 New Living Translation (NLT)
And Jesus replied, “I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

If you believe you're more skillful of how this passage should be written over those who wrote the New Living Translation, can you provide us with your credentials?

Plus can you correct all the other translations as they all appear to be wrong by your standard as all also seem to indicate Today as the day Christ died on the cross and not a future day.

{book-chapter-title}:{verse-number-start} - {passage-text}
That's an impressive list, but if they're all wrong they're still wrong. Jesus did not go to paradise that day, because he was dead. You can't go to paradise if you're dead. Because you're dead.
 
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Open Heart

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There is no rapture. The verses some people apply to the rapture are actually about the second coming.

REvelation is actually prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem beginning in 70 AD. It is written before that date.
 
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BeStill&Know

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Recently when I read Revelations I saw that when Christ speaks to the messengers of the Churches He states to these Christian Churches, that UNLESS there are serious changes among their members there will be consequences.verse 23And all the churches shall know that I am he who searches deep within men’s hearts, and minds; I will give to each of you whatever you deserve.
It appears that if there is a rapture, that not all of who call themselves christian will go. Some will and some which looks like perhaps a majority will stay.
 
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Laureate

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o.k. so what's your opinion on the meaning of the thousand year reign. Literal or not?

Well, I rely on the Spirit to guide me in my studies precept upon precept, etc., as Y'shua promised the Spirit of Truth would do, so to ask me what My opinion is, is more like asking me where am I in my growing knowledge of our faith/Higher Opinion?

If we take our cue from Y'shua who only spoke in parables when speaking to the general public which congregated to see and hear the Word of Elohym (ref. Matthew 13), which pretty much would include the entire bible/Word of Elohym;

Then we carefully consider the Parable of the Sower which Y'shua declares to be the Parable by which one may understand any/all parables (ref. Mark 4:13);

It is evident that a Parable (besides being a Mystery of the Kingdom) has two Literal Truths/Meanings each being Figurative to one another;

On the one side there is a Natural event, and on the other side a Spiritual event, yet both events Literally occur;

What makes the time orientation of a day equating to a thousand years, and as a (three hour) watch in the night more of a tri-fold reality that also implies a fourth undisclosed factor;

1 Hour = 1 Thousand Years = 3 Hours
2 Hours = 2 Thousand Years = 6 Hours
3 Hours = 3 Thousand Years = 9 Hours
4 Hours = 4 Thousand Years = 12 Hours
5 Hours = 5 Thousand Years = 15 Hours
6 Hours = 6 Thousand Years = 18 Hours
7 Hours = 7 Thousand Years = 21 Hours
8 Hours = 8 Thousand Years = 24 Hours

Notice here (above) how 8 Hours also equates to a 24 hour day, the implications only continue to increase, just as Y'shua promised unto those who have/get it, more is given to them to have/get;

Pardon all those rid bits, but I feel if one feels qualified to assert something, and present it as a plausible truth, then there should be some substantiation behind it;

I believe each parallel day is relative to the other, in essence one three hour period could set a prophetic course of an hour, and if no adjustments, amendments, repentances occur, then that sets the course for a Thousand years, sort of like a dominoes effect;

These parallel moments of time may also be indicative of windows of opportunity that open and shut.

Notwithstanding I think the question is awesome to ponder.....take Satan being bound for a thousand years then released;

Aside from the fact that there is a real Satan, remember they called the Holy Spirit (aka Master of the house) Beelzebub, which Y'shua describes as just another name for Satan;

In the Parable of Householder who leased his land unto laborers to tend his vineyard, after they cast the Son out of the vineyard the Master of the House is the one who comes viditing next;

Y'shua said he is going to send us another Comforter, the Holy Spirit, aka the Spirit of Truth, aka the Father who desires to be worshipped in Spirit and Truth;

Yet none of the denominations seem to be prepared to acknowledge this biblical fact, and therefore are subject to call him Satan, as was done before;

What if he is cast into the Lake of Fire (like Jonah was cast into the sea), yet remember, if he was acctually faithful unto death, then the second death i.e., the 'Lake of Fire' will not harm him (ref. Rev. 2:11-12, and 20:14);

I'm just saying, what if?

If they do by chance cast the wrong person in the Lava crater, then he is subject to not only be unharmed but bound for only three hours, or even less, once your finished crunching the numbers we could be talking about split seconds.
 
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Laureate

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There is no rapture. The verses some people apply to the rapture are actually about the second coming.

REvelation is actually prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem beginning in 70 AD. It is written before that date.

I see what your saying as being what the scriptures refer to as a rapture;

There are those who twist and mangle scripture, and then there are those who allow the miss representation of such folks to affect their own formulization of the truth;

Try not considering the miss conceptions of others in your assessment of the scriptures, and I'm sure we will be in agreement.
 
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Psalm3704

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That's an impressive list, but if they're all wrong they're still wrong. Jesus did not go to paradise that day, because he was dead. You can't go to paradise if you're dead. Because you're dead.

You need to know what Jesus means sometimes when He says Me. In the spiritual realm, Jesus aka God is omnipresent. After Jesus died on the cross, He doesn't have to ascend to heaven yet to be there as God or whoever else He wishes to be, anywhere He wants to be. In other words, the Me implies Yahweh being everywhere.

John 14:7-11 New King James Version (NKJV)
7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.” 8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.











.
 
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LastSeven

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REvelation is actually prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem beginning in 70 AD. It is written before that date.
I thought Revelation was written about 20 years after the destruction of Jerusalem.
 
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LastSeven

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You need to know what Jesus means sometimes when He says Me. In the spiritual realm, Jesus aka God is omnipresent. After Jesus died on the cross, He doesn't have to ascend to heaven yet to be there as God or whoever else He wishes to be, anywhere He wants to be. In other words, the Me implies Yahweh being everywhere.

John 14:7-11 New King James Version (NKJV)
7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.” 8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
If you mean that the father was in paradise that day then I can't argue with that, and perhaps when Jesus said "Me" he meant God the father, but that doesn't change the fact that people do not become spirits immediately upon death. That doesn't happen until the resurrection. Until then, we actually die and go back to the dust of the earth, just as God told Adam. So the thief on the cross did not go to paradise that day, unless he got special consideration like Moses or Elijah, but that seems unlikely.
 
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LastSeven

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Aside from the fact that there is a real Satan, remember they called the Holy Spirit (aka Master of the house) Beelzebub, which Y'shua describes as just another name for Satan;
Who called the holy spirit beelzebub? Do you have a reference for this?

Y'shua said he is going to send us another Comforter, the Holy Spirit, aka the Spirit of Truth, aka the Father who desires to be worshipped in Spirit and Truth;
Are you saying the Holy Spirit is just another name for the Father?
 
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Laureate

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Who called the holy spirit beelzebub? Do you have a reference for this?


Are you saying the Holy Spirit is just another name for the Father?


"But the hour is coming, as it is now, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him.

Elohym is a Spirit: and those who worship him must worship him in Spirit and in Truth." [John 4:23-24]

"Believe you not that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? the words which I speak unto you I speak not on my own accord, but the Father who dwells in me, he performs the works." John 14:10]

"It is the spirit that animates; not the unprofitable flesh: the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are life." [John 6:63]

"For it is not you who speaks, but the Spirit of your Father which speaks through you." [Matthew 10:20]

"And the Father himself, which has sent me, has borne witness of me. You have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

And you have not his word abiding in you: for whom he has sent, him you believe not." [John 5:37-38]

"If you love me, keep my commandments.

And I will ask the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever;

Even the Spirit of Truth; whom the world can not receive, because it does not see him, neither knows him: but you know him; for he dwells with you, and shall be in you.

I will not leave you Comfortless: I will come to you.

He that loves me not keeps not my sayings: and the word which you hear is not my own, but the Father’s who sent me." [John 14:15-18, & 24

"Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spoke and saw.

And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?

But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow does not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

"And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He has Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casts he out devils." [Mark 3:22]

And Y'shua knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of Elohym, then the Kingdom of Elohym has Come unto you.

He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathers not with me scatters abroad.

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

And whosoever speaks a word against the Son of Adam, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come." [Matthew 12:22-28, & 30-32]

"The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.

It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the Master of the House Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his Household?

"And a man’s enemies shall be those of his own household." [Matthew 10:24-25, & 36]
 
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Laureate

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Y'shua proclaimed it was the Father (Grace) in him both speaking, and performing the works, and those among the Priests said he is not casting them out by the Holy Spirit, but by Beelzebub, they were not calling the Messiah Beelzebub, but the one who was performing the works.
 
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Psalm3704

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but that doesn't change the fact that people do not become spirits immediately upon death.

No such thing as soulsleep. The corpse is what dies upon death and awaits a resurrection. The soul never dies.

Your stubbornness to admit your error reveals more errors in your thinking.









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