What is your end times view on the rapture?

POLL: What is your end times view on the rapture?

  • No Rapture

    Votes: 16 29.6%
  • Pretribulation

    Votes: 22 40.7%
  • Pre-Wrath/6th Seal

    Votes: 2 3.7%
  • Midtribulation

    Votes: 2 3.7%
  • Posttribulation

    Votes: 12 22.2%

  • Total voters
    54

2X4

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Did this statement come from the mind of Christ?

Yes. Once you understand what the Tree of Life is and the information called Christ and the Beast, then you will understand where we get all our languages from. I've been living with information called Christ now for several years so that's where all my thoughts come from. Everyone else gets their thoughts from Satan and the Beast until that information is deleted from the program on the day of the Lord. However, Chosen believers were connected to God through information called Christ but they haven't been used to testify to this knowledge and think only with thoughts called Christ. They still are being influenced by Satan and the Beast until their flesh perishes. This is why they're called believers. They can only believe our stories from Christ.

In the next generation called the New Heaven and Earth. ALL MEN will be observing images and thinking with thoughts from Christ only. Satan and the Beast won't exist in Heaven, which is the program with stored information.
 
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SeventyOne

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Yes. Once you understand what the Tree of Life is and the information called Christ and the Beast, then you will understand where we get all our languages from. I've been living with information called Christ now for several years so that's where all my thoughts come from. Everyone else gets their thoughts from Satan and the Beast until that information is deleted from the program on the day of the Lord. However, Chosen believers were connected to God through information called Christ but they haven't been used to testify to this knowledge and think only with thoughts called Christ. They still are being influenced by Satan and the Beast until their flesh perishes. This is why they're called believers. They can only believe our stories from Christ.

In the next generation called the New Heaven and Earth. ALL MEN will be observing images and thinking with thoughts from Christ only. Satan and the Beast won't exist in Heaven, which is the program with stored information.

I think your file has been corrupted. Time to reboot.
 
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keras

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How do you rapture the elects already in heaven?
In a rapture, people go up, not come down.
Your quote of Matthew 24:31,.....gathered from one end of the heavens to the other. is not referring to the place where God dwells. The word translated 'heaven' is 'ouranon' Strongs 3770 meaning: sky or celestial space.
No human goes to live in heaven, Jesus said so: John 3:13
 
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Monk Brendan

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Unless 1000 years means something else than 1000 actual years in the bible

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (2Peter 3:8 KJV)
 
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Monk Brendan

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Reading luke 21 the whole chapter you get the idea that jesus is more so warning people to make sure they are living righteous because he can come at any time.

How about a person can die at any time? Don't know about you, but I have to trust God with every beat of my heart, and every breath I take. He could come for me in ten seconds...Okay, he didn't come then, but I don't know when He is coming, either to take me, personally, OR the rapture. Personally, I think I will already be dead when the rapture comes.
 
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lismore

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In the same way, when you see all these things, you can know his return is very near, right at the door (Matt 24:33)

In the same way, when you see all these things taking place, you can know that his return is very near, right at the door (Mark 13:29)
 
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Psalm3704

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They ( unspiritual ) Men will never understand what you're saying to them. They all think they're going TO Heaven.

Well that's why we need to help them. Jesus didn't come to save the righteous, He came to save the sinners, unbelievers and the losts.








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Psalm3704

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Your quote of Matthew 24:31,.....gathered from one end of the heavens to the other. is not referring to the place where God dwells. The word translated 'heaven' is 'ouranon' Strongs 3770 meaning: sky or celestial space.

Matthew 24:31 New King James Version (NKJV)
And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This is not the rapture as you can't rapture people from heaven. In a rapture, people go up, they don't come down.

And it doesn't matter if you think heaven in Matthew 24:31 refers to the sky just above us and not the 3rd heaven where God dwells. Paul said the dead in Christ will rise at the rapture: 1 Thessalonians 4:16. The dead are NOT buried in the sky just above us. They are buried on earth in the ground, 6 feet beneath us.

Many people have used Matthew 24:31 to promote their own theology on the timing of the rapture but if one put some thought into this and carefully examine the text and ask themselves, "how did the elects get to heaven before the end of the tribulation?"

Well, it's possible the elects went to heaven in a Pre-Trib rapture.

It's also possible the elects got there in a Mid-Trib rapture.

And it's even possible the elects got to heaven in a Prewrath rapture.

But if the elects are already in heaven immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31), there's no way possible a Post-Trib rapture can exist.

Bottom line. Under scrutiny, Matthew 24:29-31 refutes a Post-trib rapture.

Plus strong's definition of heaven also means the 3rd heaven where God dwells. You're just cherry picking the definition you want it to say.

No human goes to live in heaven, Jesus said so: John 3:13

He said that before the resurrection of Matthew 27:50-53. You're cherry picking scriptures again to make it say what you want others to believe.

Bad idea Keras. When will you ever learn? When it's too late?









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Psalm3704

And He shall give you the desires of your heart.
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Matt 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

You are misunderstanding the use of heaven in this statement.
It is not the heaven where GOD abodes but the atmospheric heaven that surrounds the earth. The four winds are the four corners of the earth.

No where does it say that GOD brings his elect with him at his second coming. He comes with all the angels of heaven.

The basic problem in this issue is that of the soul.
Gen 2
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Find a bible reference to a dead soul, not there. Only the living have a soul, the soul is not a living entity that communes with GOD till the resurrection. The dead praise not the Lord

GOD gave the breath of life to the dust and man became a living soul. So what GOD gave returneth to him at death, the breath(spirit). Your soul will be returned to you at the resurrection until then as the Bible says the dead know not anything.
And if you think the GOD of creation can not return your soul to your new body then you do not have enough faith in him.

What is your soul anyway?

Matthew 24:31 New King James Version (NKJV)
And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This is not the rapture as you can't rapture people from heaven. In a rapture, people go up, they don't come down.

And it doesn't matter if you think heaven in Matthew 24:31 refers to the sky just above us and not the 3rd heaven where God dwells. Paul said the dead in Christ will rise at the rapture: 1 Thessalonians 4:16. The dead are NOT buried in the sky just above us. They are buried on earth in the ground, 6 feet beneath us.

Many people have used Matthew 24:31 to promote their own theology on the timing of the rapture but if one put some thought into this and carefully examine the text and ask themselves, "how did the elects get to heaven before the end of the tribulation?"

Well, it's possible the elects went to heaven in a Pre-Trib rapture.

It's also possible the elects got there in a Mid-Trib rapture.

And it's even possible the elects got to heaven in a Prewrath rapture.

But if the elects are already in heaven immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31), there's no way possible a Post-Trib rapture can exist.

Bottom line. Under scrutiny, Matthew 24:29-31 refutes a Post-trib rapture.








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keras

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Plus strong's definition of heaven also means the 3rd heaven where God dwells. You're just cherry picking the definition you want it to say.
I know I'm wasting time replying, as no amount of truth will shift you from the rapture belief. As Isaiah 29:9-12 says: those who believe false teachings will be locked into them.

The Greek word in Matthew 24:31 is 'ouranon' Strongs 3770 meaning the sky.
Strongs 3772- 'ouranos' means the abode of God.
Your errors compound upon you at each post you make!

Heaven is a spiritual place: how does it have one end to the other?
He said that before the resurrection of Matthew 27:50-53. You're cherry picking scriptures again to make it say what you want others to believe.
The saints who were raised on that Day, never went to heaven and they didn't stick around for long, as no further mention of them is made. They may be finally resurrected at Jesus' Return. Or at the GWT judgement.
John 3:13 is only one of many scriptures that refute any notion of the Church going to live in heaven.
Believe in a rapture if you must, but don't promote it. James 3:1
 
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bcbsr

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This is wrong. No need to explain why as it's already universally known who the rapture involves.

1Th 4
¶ Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope.
14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
15 According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

1Cor 15
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—
52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.








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Psalm3704

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Heaven is a spiritual place: how does it have one end to the other?

You can even say heaven is so big and endless, how can there be one end to the other.

The answer is easy. When Matthew wrote the angels will gather His elects from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other ~ Matthew 24:31. He's referring to all those in heaven spread throughout heaven in over all 4 cardinal points. While heaven can be unlimited in space and time, the number of elects being gathered at that future time is not unlimited.

Classical compass winds
In the ancient Mediterranean world, the classical compass winds were names for the points of geographic direction and orientation, in association with the winds as conceived of by the ancient Greeks and Romans. Ancient wind roses typically had twelve winds and thus twelve points of orientation, sometimes reduced to eight or increased to twenty-four.
Classical compass winds - Wikipedia

What does the Bible mean when it refers to the four winds?
Wind is frequently used in the Bible as a metaphor for some spiritual truth (e.g., Psalm 78:39 and Jeremiah 22:22). This holds true when the Bible refers to the “four winds.” The phrase “four winds” is used principally to describe the whole of the earth or heaven. The “four winds” encompass all directions or the “four corners” of the earth: north, south, east, and west (Jeremiah 49:36; Matthew 24:31).
What does the Bible mean when it refers to the four winds?

The saints who were raised on that Day, never went to heaven and they didn't stick around for long, as no further mention of them is made. They may be finally resurrected at Jesus' Return. Or at the GWT judgement.

On that day when Jesus was dying on the cross, He told the thief on the cross "I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise."

Luke 23:43
And Jesus replied, "I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise."

Paul tells us in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 that Paradise is a place in the 3rd heaven and the only way to get there is to be caught up.

2 Corinthians 12:2-4 New King James Version (NKJV)
2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4 how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Keras, put the pieces of the puzzle together. On the day Christ died on the cross and resurrected the saints in the grave. Where do you think He sent them if He sent the thief to be with Him in paradise in the 3rd heaven?

Matthew 27:50-53 New King James Version (NKJV)
50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. 51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.


John 3:13 is only one of many scriptures that refute any notion of the Church going to live in heaven.

Hebrews 12:18-29 New King James Version (NKJV)
18 For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest, 19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. 20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: “And if so much as a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned or shot with an arrow.” 21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I am exceedingly afraid and trembling."

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

25 See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven, 26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also heaven.” 27 Now this, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.

At the sound of a trumpet (Hebrews 12:19), the church of the firstborn (Hebrews 12:23) are seen in heaven (Hebrews 12:22-24) just before God commences the tribulation (Hebrews 12:26) and destroys the earth with fire (Hebrews 12:29).

See the word church in verse 23?

The rapture is clearly Pre-Trib and the church is seen in heaven just before the tribulation.












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Psalm3704

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But the rapture is for those who have not died when Christ returns.

Again you just proved yourself wrong with your own post below.

16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.









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Blade

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I like the old Jewish wedding. He pays a price for his bride. He then goes back to his fathers house to make them a home. She stays behind gets reading.. stuff like that. About 1y later he comes back with some friends, mostly at night. Makes some loud noises so she knows he is coming then takes her back to his fathers house for about a week.

Jesus told the 12 He was going back to make them a home. And would come back and receive us unto Him self. So WHERE He is we will be. And if He was not going He would have told them. He said WHERE I go you know how I go you know. Then the 1st book/letter Paul writes is about? Caught up. They thought Jesus came and they missed Him. Paul told them no.

This is NOT part of salvation. And God has never forced anyone to do anything. We are told to watch and pray and looking expecting Him. Were talking about what a GOD said not some man. So if 1000 y is to God as one day and one day like a thousand years. Jesus just left about over 2 days ago. And if WE were standing there and heard Him say to US HE was going back to His Fathers house and would come back and get us/take/receive us so where HE is we will be. Them a little time after that HE goes up. Then were told this same Jesus will come back the same way. So you HEARD this MAN that is God that only says what GOD says. Everything He did He never lied and always did what He said He would.

So picture as if you are there and HE goes up.. WHEN would you be expecting Him to come back and get you? Any moment. He has not changed. So do you really believe if you do not believe His words the He will come back and get you...if you are not watching.. do you think He will force you to go? No.. to them it will be as a thief in the night. That they were not watching were not ready. For me I just take HIM at His word. You know like John 3:16? Yeah.. same thing... if HE said it.. HE IS COMING back to get me so WHERE He is I will be. I know WHERE He is and I know HOW He went. There will be a loud noise/shout/trump and the dead will rise then we which remain go up together for what? Do you KNOW what is says? To be with Him for ever.

When He sets foot on this earth He gathers the nations (great trib) and splits them..sheep and goats. This is written. I am not telling just sharing. Just take HIM at HIS word. If HE said He is coming back to get you.. then BELIEVE that! Expect it! Be ready NOW! It will always be NOW when He comes. For me no pre no mid no post. I am watching praying ready now.

And NO ONES belief is the REAL one. Its what JESUS said period. Just take HIM at His word. We will never see taste touch His wrath that hits the world. Praise GOD GLORY TO JESUS!
 
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Original Happy Camper

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On that day when Jesus was dying on the cross, He told the thief on the cross "I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise."

If this statement is true (as written above) then Jesus Lied as he did not ascend to his father until the third day after the cross.

Try this on for size
"I assure you today, you will be with me in paradise."
Jesus talking today, promises future event.

The Bible was written without punctuation, paragraphs, verses or Chapters.
 
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Original Happy Camper

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2 Corinthians 12:2-4 New King James Version (NKJV)
2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4 how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

That Paul is speaking of himself is evident from 1) the fact that this reference to visions is in the midst of an account of events connected with his own life and ministry; 2) the fact that in verse 7 he designates these visions and revelations as being made directly to himself; and 3) the fact that he uses the third person in order to avoid the appearance of boosting.
 
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keras

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22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.
I can safely assume you are now living on earth.
This Bible passage speaks in the past tense, as Christians, our citizenship is in heaven, but plainly we stay on earth. As it says; the spirits of the just are there, not the bodies. This scripture in no way says that Christians will be raptured to heaven.
Again, your rapture view leads you into further error.
 
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