Sabbath and the New Covenant

[Gary K]

What I'm talking about is the idea that the overall principle written in our hearts is Love.

Have you talked about that? My impression was that most seventh day observers are reluctant to talk about principles being written in our hearts.

What do you think that OP I posted was about? It's blatantly obvious it's about the principle of love. Do you really think an emotion was what motivated Jesus to die on the cross?

Sometimes I'm blown away by your seeming inability to reason.

 

[Leaf473]

What do you think that OP I posted was about? It's blatantly obvious it's about the principle of love.

Do you believe it is the principle of love that God writes on our hearts in the New Covenant, and not specific Commandments?

Do you really think an emotion was what motivated Jesus to die on the cross?

Sometimes I'm blown away by your seeming inability to reason.

 

[Gary K]

Do you believe it is the principle of love that God writes on our hearts in the New Covenant, and not specific Commandments?

The NC was given to Jeremiah a Jew. So what do you think? It's all 10 written in our hearts, not just nine.

So does that mean you don't want to be a partaker of the NC?

 

[Leaf473]

The NC was given to Jeremiah a Jew. So what do you think?

The word for law there is Torah. I think it means direction, a pathway.

Strong's Hebrew: 8451. תּוֹרָה (torah) -- direction, instruction, law

So in the New Covenant, God puts his direction, how to walk his path, in our hearts.

It's all 10 written in our hearts, not just nine.

Well, I think it would be referring to the entire law there, not just the 10.

And I think a good summary of that entire law / Torah / direction is the principle of love.

Can you say a hearty Amen to that? If not, then we have something to discuss

So does that mean you don't want to be a partaker of the NC?

No, it does not mean that at all.

 

[Gary K]

The word for law there is Torah. I think it means direction, a pathway.

Strong's Hebrew: 8451. תּוֹרָה (torah) -- direction, instruction, law

So in the New Covenant, God puts his direction, how to walk his path, in our hearts.


Well, I think it would be referring to the entire law there, not just the 10.

And I think a good summary of that entire law / Torah / direction is the principle of love.

Can you say a hearty Amen to that? If not, then we have something to discuss


No, it does not mean that at all.

God's law, the law written on stone, is separate from the temporary laws written on perishable material written on perishable material.

You're in disagreement with Jesus.

Matthew 7: 12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

 

[Leaf473]

God's law, the law written on stone, is separate from the temporary laws written on perishable material written on perishable material.

Well, Jeremiah and his readers would have thought of Torah as referring to the entire law imo.

You're in disagreement with Jesus.

Matthew 7: 12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

No, it's the same. I would like most of all for other people to treat me in a loving fashion. So, that's the way I attempt to treat other people... That is the principle of the entire law / Torah / God's direction

 

[Leaf473]

God's law, the law written on stone, is separate from the temporary laws written on perishable material written on perishable material.

Is it only the Ten Commandments that you see written on your heart?

You're in disagreement with Jesus.

Matthew 7: 12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

 

[Gary K]

Well, Jeremiah and his readers would have thought of Torah as referring to the entire law imo.


No, it's the same. I would like most of all for other people to treat me in a loving fashion. So, that's the way I attempt to treat other people... That is the principle of the entire law / Torah / God's direction

You can disagree with Jesus if you choose. I don't recommend it as if any human knows the truth it is Jesus as He is God. He is the truth.

 

[Leaf473]

You can disagree with Jesus if you choose. I don't recommend it as if any human knows the truth it is Jesus as He is God. He is the truth.

I'm not disagreeing with Jesus. Treating other people the way I want to be treated - loving them - is the law and the prophets.

 

[Gary K]

I'm not disagreeing with Jesus. Treating other people the way I want to be treated - loving them - is the law and the prophets.

It is not the Torah. It is not the law of God.

 

[Leaf473]

It is not the Torah. It is not the law of God.

I believe that Jesus is talking about Torah / the law of God.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 7:12 - New Century Version

The Most Important Rule - “Do to others what you want them to do to you. This is the meaning of the law of Moses and the teaching of the prophets.

www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 22:37-40 - New Century Version

Jesus answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’ This is the first and most important command. And the second command is like the first: ‘Love your neighbor as you love yourself.’ All the law and the writings of the prophets depend on these two...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Gary K]

I believe that Jesus is talking about Torah / the law of God.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 7:12 - New Century Version

The Most Important Rule - “Do to others what you want them to do to you. This is the meaning of the law of Moses and the teaching of the prophets.

www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 22:37-40 - New Century Version

Jesus answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’ This is the first and most important command. And the second command is like the first: ‘Love your neighbor as you love yourself.’ All the law and the writings of the prophets depend on these two...

www.biblegateway.com

Well, I guess it is time to stop this conversation as our positions are so far apart they will never meet.

 

[BobRyan]

one Gospel Gal 1:6-9
preached to Abraham Gal 3:8
preached to us just as it was to them also Heb 4:2

Sabbath given to all mankind in Gen 2:2-3 at creation - as in the case of all TEN of the Ten Commandments

Jer 31:31-34 "law of God written on the heart" included the TEN where "He spoke the TEN and added no more" Deut 5:22

These basic Bible details admitted by the majority of even Sunday-keeping denominations

No wonder almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today

[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul
[*]many others as well..

======================================= here is the part I will be asked to post again... and again.

And this is true EVEN THOUGH some will argue that "not bowing down before images and not serving them" - is an "issue" in some denominations that needs to be "re-thought carefully".

So then -- there exists saved saints in all denominations but not all have the same in-depth knowledge of scripture and accept it.

Judges 21:
23 The sons of Benjamin did so, and took wives according to their number from those who danced, whom they seized. And they went and returned to their inheritance, and rebuilt the cities and lived in them. 24 And the sons of Israel departed from there at that time, every man to his tribe and family, and each one departed from there to his inheritance.
25 In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what was right in his own eyes.

2 Tim 4:2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; correct, rebuke, and exhort, with great patience and instruction. 3 For the time will come when they will not tolerate sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance with their own desires, 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth and will turn aside to myths

1 Tim 4: 1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

by contrast in Acts 17: "11 Now these people were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things (spoken by the Apostle Paul) were so.

Gal 6:7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a person sows, this he will also reap.

John 3:9 Nicodemus responded and said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “You are the teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you people do not accept our testimony.

John 7:17 If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority.

Clearly not all the Jews became convinced through study of scripture that Christ's doctrine was of God. Yet John 7 remains true and so also Gal 6:7

Hi BobRyan

Is that a Yes, you do believe the seventh day Sabbath was written on the hearts of people from the very beginning?

I appreciate your willingness to show when you struggle with reading a given set of scriptures posted to make a glaringly obvious point.
In the past you hinted that this is the result of not actually reading the entire post -- I suspect that is the root cause just as you have stated before.

If so, do you believe that a sacred day gathering was also written on the hearts of people from the very beginning?

I believe God informed "man" in Gen 2:2-3 -- "both of them" - about His own sovereign choice to make the 7th day holy - sanctified for holy use such that Jesus said "The Sabbath was MADE for mankind" Mark 2:27

If you think it would help - I can add Gen 2:2-3 to the post you are responding to.

 

[BobRyan]

Well, Jeremiah and his readers would have thought of Torah as referring to the entire law imo.

Deut 5:22 - God spoke these TEN words and "added no more".

Jeremiah's readers would know that - and they would know that gentiles were never commanded to be circumcised so as to be saved - even though gentiles are specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping in Is 56:6-8

 

[BobRyan]

Do you believe it is the principle of love that God writes on our hearts in the New Covenant, and not specific Commandments?

Depends on what the person knows about God's Word, God's Will.

Luke 12 makes it very clear that those who know more about God's Word - His Will - are held to a higher standard of accountability.

Something to think about.

 

[Leaf473]

Well, I guess it is time to stop this conversation as our positions are so far apart they will never meet.

It's up to you, my brother

 

[Leaf473]

I appreciate your willingness to show when you struggle with reading a given set of scriptures posted to make a glaringly obvious point.

I'm not struggling with the scriptures that you posted. I'm inviting you to clarify your response.

In the past you hinted that this is the result of not actually reading the entire post -- I suspect that is the root cause just as you have stated before.

Your suspicion would be incorrect

I believe God informed "man" in Gen 2:2-3 -- "both of them" - about His own sovereign choice to make the 7th day holy - sanctified for holy use such that Jesus said "The Sabbath was MADE for mankind" Mark 2:27

If you think it would help - I can add Gen 2:2-3 to the post you are responding to.

Cool! But it's not what I was asking.

Peace be with you, my brother

 

[Leaf473]

Deut 5:22 - God spoke these TEN words and "added no more".

That's true. But the 10 are not the entire law

Bible Gateway passage: Luke 2:23 - New American Standard Bible

(as it is written in the Law of the Lord: “Every firstborn male that opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord”),

www.biblegateway.com

Jeremiah's readers would know that - and they would know that gentiles were never commanded to be circumcised so as to be saved - even though gentiles are specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping in Is 56:6-8

 

[Leaf473]

Depends on what the person knows about God's Word, God's Will.

In the New Covenant, God is the one doing the "putting" and the "writing" in the minds and hearts.

Bible Gateway passage: Jeremiah 31:33 - New International Reader's Version

“This is the covenant I will make with Israel after that time,” announces the LORD. “I will put my law in their minds. I will write it on their hearts. I will be their God. And they will be my people.

www.biblegateway.com

Peace be with you, my brother

Luke 12 makes it very clear that those who know more about God's Word - His Will - are held to a higher standard of accountability.

Something to think about.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said:

Depends on what the person knows about God's Word, God's Will.

In the New Covenant, God is the one doing the "putting" and the "writing" in the minds and hearts.

In the Bible God says "to the one that knows to do right - and does it not - to him it is sin" James 4:17
In the Bible God says that accountability is according to what one knows Luke 12:45-48

". 45 But if that slave says in his heart, ‘My master will take a long time to come,’ and he begins to beat the other slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; 46 then the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect, and at an hour that he does not know, and will cut him in two, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. 47 And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accordance with his will, will receive many blows, 48 but the one who did not know it, and committed acts deserving of a beating, will receive only a few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more."

Leaf - do you view yourself as one who knows or who does not know - ??

John 9:39 And Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind.” 40 Those who were with Him from the Pharisees heard these things and said to Him, “We are not blind too, are we?” 41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now that you maintain, ‘We see,’ your sin remains