How does that answer the question of why God does not use His soverenity to intervene and not let satan run amuk? Or why Jesus (fully God) let satan tempt Him for 40 days and 40 nights and not exercise His authority?
So you have no answer, but are asking which POV seems better?
I'm attempting to cut through the knee-jerk, facile comments and get you to appreciate the issue that we started off with. Sometimes it works to illustrate a point by suggesting a parallel situation that the other person can appreciate more readily than the one that seems, like this one, to be at a standstill.
Oh, no. I don't know anyone who thinks that every Hebrew prior to Jesus was guaranteed salvation merely by being born a Hebrew.
I did not say that either. I said that God specifically chose the Hebrew people and that it was only the Hebrew priesthood that was able to temporarily attone for sin through sacrifice.
Ok, so we're in agreement to that extent. We don't know everything about God and his will and, I might add, the Bible makes it clear that we have been given all that we NEED TO KN0W.
Yes. IS it a convincing argument to say that in the very important (according to the Bible it is important) matter of saving souls, God would choose to be Missing In Action and, as a result, have Satan win most of us rather than God? That's the question put a little bit more specifically.
So, let's look at this.
The question could also be asked 'Why did Jesus not come in glory with the full power of being the Son of God and God Himself and wipe out the Pharisee's and the ruler's (ie Pontius Pilot) and such?
God was not exercising His authority over mankind letting them kill His Son. But what became of it. God reconciled all those who believe in His Son back to Himself.
So who won? God who get's billions of His Children back through Christ or the people that crucified Christ (ie. Pharisee's and Pontius Pilot) got to kill Jesus dead?
God won!
People did evil, but God used it for good. Are not we His Children used for His good in an evil world when we love our neighbors as ourselves? Does satan win because we did not choose to exercise our authority to serve self, not God.
I agree. But the case is not clear cut for Calvinism although people act like it is. From Genesis in the Garden, Eve was able to disobey God. And that is free-will.
It's NOT free-will as that term is used in these discussions concerning Predestination, Calvinism, or etc.
Wow. No, that's not misconscrewed (sic) in Calvinism. Calvinism very clearly accepts that salvation is by Faith in Christ. And if you're saying that having Faith requires free-will, you certainly haven't shown why that would be so. Obviously, I think, God is capable of imparting Faith by Grace to a person if he so chooses.
That was a point someone else made. I was asking them a similiar question waiting for their answer. They were saying that if predestination were not true, that God would not be exercising authority over the earth.
They rely upon the Bible, just as I presume that you do. When the topic turns to the Calvinist vs Arminian POVs or Freewill vs Election, it's to resume a debate that goes back at least to the Reformation. And you chose to refer to Calvinism in this discussion, so I think there's no question about what you meant to discuss.
