Is "Belief" a choice?...lets talk about that.

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Greeting everyone,

I just wanted to start off by saying that the purpose of this thread is not to try to influence your beliefs or lack of belief but have a conversation about belief in general and how many Christians take belief for granted. Many Christians emphasize free will and that we can use this free will to freely choose to believe or not to believe in God. But is “belief” really a choice and can we truly use this “free will” to choose to believe or not to believe? I can’t say that I agree. I don’t think anyone can simply choose to believe anything….they either believe or not believe something. Here is an example. If I told you that in order to be saved you had to believe the sky was pink and purple polka dotted. You may look me in the face and tell me “yes, I believe it”. Deep down, you truly want to believe it because you want to be saved. But can you really believe it? Let us look at what the bible says about “belief” and salvation.

John 14:12-14 ESV

“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.


John 20:29 ESV

Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”


John 3:16 ESV

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


Romans 10:9-10 ESV

Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

So if belief is not a choice, the simple act of believing in Jesus is really not that simple. So how can a Christian truly convince and unbeliever to believe? Please cast your vote in the poll. Thank you.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

To use one of your quotes..

whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do;

doing the works that Jesus does, is an action that takes a choice.

Your analogy of the coloured sky is a red herring because that is asking us to believe against something we can clearly see, whereas faith requires us to believe in that which we cannot see. That's not to say we don't have evidence for our beliefs.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

So if belief is not a choice, the simple act of believing in Jesus is really not that simple. So how can a Christian truly convince and unbeliever to believe?

Through evidence in the scriptures... prophesy and history are irrefutable 'proofs' that not only is the Bible true in what it says but that the God that can know and foretell the future is more real than you or I.

 

[Albion]

IMHO, the "problem" here is that belief in God or his Son is different in several ways from belief in almost anything else. We really ought not speak of it all as the same.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

To use one of your quotes..


doing the works that Jesus does, is an action that takes a choice.

Your analogy of the coloured sky is a red herring because that is asking us to believe against something we can clearly see, whereas faith requires us to believe in that which we cannot see. That's not to say we don't have evidence for our beliefs.

I understand where you are coming from but I don't entirely agree. You are right in the fact that faith and belief are different. Faith is rooted in trust and belief is rooted in knowledge and understanding. To have "faith" is to trust with the lack of knowledge or understanding.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Faith is a gift, not from ourselves, so none may boast (Ephesians 2:8-9).

-CryptoLutheran

 

[stevenfrancis]

While I believe "belief" is a choice, the ability to believe is a grace of God. So I answered Yes...it's a choice, but it's not as clear cut as that.

Certainly, He stands at the door and knocks. It's up to us to get up and let Him in.

 

[Albion]

What would make you think it's worth doing?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Faith is a gift, not from ourselves, so none may boast (Ephesians 2:8-9).

-CryptoLutheran

Exactly! And I believe that "true belief" is a gift of saving grace.

 

[Erose]

Greeting everyone,

I just wanted to start off by saying that the purpose of this thread is not to try to influence your beliefs or lack of belief but have a conversation about belief in general and how many Christians take belief for granted. Many Christians emphasize free will and that we can use this free will to freely choose to believe or not to believe in God. But is “belief” really a choice and can we truly use this “free will” to choose to believe or not to believe? I can’t say that I agree. I don’t think anyone can simply choose to believe anything….they either believe or not believe something. Here is an example. If I told you that in order to be saved you had to believe the sky was pink and purple polka dotted. You may look me in the face and tell me “yes, I believe it”. Deep down, you truly want to believe it because you want to be saved. But can you really believe it? Let us look at what the bible says about “belief” and salvation.

You are making a nonsensical distinction. Concerning free will versus determinism, it isn't a matter of belief, but rather following. You either follow Jesus or you do not. That is a matter of free will. One can believe God, and yet choose not to follow Him. Just because one believes something doesn't mean that they follow.

For example I can believe in the Weight Watchers program, that the program can help me loose weight. Just because I believe that to be a fact doesn't mean that I will loose weight. Rather I must follow the program before I have a chance of loosing weight. Following the program is an act of free will on my part.

 

[Albion]

For example I can believe in the Weight Watchers program, that the program can help me loose weight. Just because I believe that to be a fact doesn't mean that I will loose weight. Rather I must follow the program before I have a chance of loosing weight. Following the program is an act of free will on my part.

This is why I said before that coming to Christ (with all that that implies) and making other decisions in life are not the same thing.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Btw....everyone gets a like from me no matter what you post.

 

[iam13]

The answer to your question is both yes and no. You see, we are conditioned by our individual experience. As such beliefs can be a choice in many cases, but beliefs may not be a choice in other areas. For instance, if you grew up being forced to go to a Christian church all of your life and there was never any other type of belief/church offered to you well then your going to church was not your choice. Because you may have not been exposed to other religions than Christianity, and perhaps you were not given the possibility of any other choices than Christianity, then in such cases its hard to prove that your Christian belief was ever really a choice for you. Rather it was the condition in which you were offered, and offered it whether or not you chose it. Likewise, that if you grew up say with an extended split belief family, with some of your family going to a Christian church, others going to a Muslim temple, and even others attending a Buddhist temple, that so long as you were given the choice of which one you wanted to attend then indeed your belief would have been a truly a chosen belief.

ON another note: I think that many, many people are not very clear on free will. Free will is basically your, "Free Will of Choice" it is your free will to choose. But as you can see in my previous examples, that if you were not given ample opportunity to study with and attend other systems of belief like the Muslim and Buddhists systems, or were not given any other choice but Christianity its near impossible to state that you actually chose Christianity.

Let me tell you something vital about your free will of choice that none have yet told you. Your having free will of choice anoints you with the potential to master sin. For if one knows what is sin is, and they practice diligently at each choice they come upon, to choose moral good choices and not to sin, well that person is going to be enacting the power of their free will of choice to limit the sin in their life. But what's even more, is that if a person begins to be ever present at every choice they make, and they make present and accountable choices based on good morals, that as time goes on and they practice this that their life will have less and less sin. Even better yet - that if one does this, and continues to empower themselves with good choices by their will, that they will eventually come to realize that even sin, is but a mere choice. It is at this precise moment that one may begin down that road to beginning to perform miracles even greater than he. For being present, accountable and fully empowered by ones free will of choice, one may attain the key to mastering sin. This is EXACTLY what our father wants of you. This is EXACTLY what Christ asked of you.

Love, Light and Power,

13

the Power of your free will of choice.

Greeting everyone,

I just wanted to start off by saying that the purpose of this thread is not to try to influence your beliefs or lack of belief but have a conversation about belief in general and how many Christians take belief for granted. Many Christians emphasize free will and that we can use this free will to freely choose to believe or not to believe in God. But is “belief” really a choice and can we truly use this “free will” to choose to believe or not to believe? I can’t say that I agree. I don’t think anyone can simply choose to believe anything….they either believe or not believe something. Here is an example. If I told you that in order to be saved you had to believe the sky was pink and purple polka dotted. You may look me in the face and tell me “yes, I believe it”. Deep down, you truly want to believe it because you want to be saved. But can you really believe it? Let us look at what the bible says about “belief” and salvation.

John 14:12-14 ESV

“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.


John 20:29 ESV

Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”


John 3:16 ESV

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


Romans 10:9-10 ESV

Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

So if belief is not a choice, the simple act of believing in Jesus is really not that simple. So how can a Christian truly convince and unbeliever to believe? Please cast your vote in the poll. Thank you.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

The answer to your question is both yes and no. You see, we are conditioned by our individual experience. As such beliefs can be a choice in many cases, but beliefs may not be a choice in other areas. For instance, if you grew up being forced to go to a Christian church all of your life and there was never any other type of belief/church offered to you well then your going to church was not your choice. Because you may have not been exposed to other religions than Christianity, and perhaps you were not given the possibility of any other choices than Christianity, then in such cases its hard to prove that your Christian belief was ever really a choice for you. Rather it was the condition in which you were offered, and offered it whether or not you chose it. Likewise, that if you grew up say with an extended split belief family, with some of your family going to a Christian church, others going to a Muslim temple, and even others attending a Buddhist temple, that so long as you were given the choice of which one you wanted to attend then indeed your belief would have been a truly a chosen belief.

ON another note: I think that many, many people are not very clear on free will. Free will is basically your, "Free Will of Choice" it is your free will to choose. But as you can see in my previous examples, that if you were not given ample opportunity to study with and attend other systems of belief like the Muslim and Buddhists systems, or were not given any other choice but Christianity its near impossible to state that you actually chose Christianity.

Let me tell you something vital about your free will of choice that none have yet told you. Your having free will of choice anoints you with the potential to master sin. For if one knows what is sin is, and they practice diligently at each choice they come upon, to choose moral good choices and not to sin, well that person is going to be enacting the power of their free will of choice to limit the sin in their life. But what's even more, is that if a person begins to be ever present at every choice they make, and they make present and accountable choices based on good morals, that as time goes on and they practice this that their life will have less and less sin. Even better yet - that if one does this, and continues to empower themselves with good choices by their will, that they will eventually come to realize that even sin, is but a mere choice. It is at this precise moment that one may begin down that road to beginning to perform miracles even greater than he. For being present, accountable and fully empowered by ones free will of choice, one may attain the key to mastering sin. This is EXACTLY what our father wants of you. This is EXACTLY what Christ asked of you.

Love, Light and Power,

13

the Power of your free will of choice.

If you were an atheist and I were to ask you at this very moment to believe in God. Not just any God, but the God of Abraham. Without any other information or explanations to sway your belief. Can you honestly tell me with absolute certainty that you truly believed in the existence of God simply because you chose to do so?

 

[stevenfrancis]

What would make you think it's worth doing?

Grace

 

[Erose]

This is why I said before that coming to Christ (with all that that implies) and making other decisions in life are not the same thing.

Of course it does, because of the supernatural infusion of faith required for us to have the ability to choose freely. Without that gift of faith, there is no freedom.

 

[Albion]

Grace

Agreed.

So the point is that when someone says, "He stands at the door and knocks. It's up to us to get up and let Him in," that's not exactly an argument in favor of complete free will, although we often have people talking that way.

In reality, the ability to open that door is impossible except for God's direct involvement. And we call that Grace.

 

[Far Side Of the Moon]

While I believe "belief" is a choice, the ability to believe is a grace of God. So I answered Yes...it's a choice, but it's not as clear cut as that.

Certainly, He stands at the door and knocks. It's up to us to get up and let Him in.

You said this soo perfectly..everyone on this forum who believes in god is BC of God's grace...we can't choose god..He chooses us...

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

You said this soo perfectly..everyone on this forum who believes in god is BC of God's grace...we can't choose god..He chooses us...

Augustine predestination?

 

[Far Side Of the Moon]

Augustine predestination?

Who saves us ? God or ourselves?... God.. His word says he draws us...