I hate the media

benedictaoo

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Oh and I walk in on "Teen Nick" that was on in a room no body was in, thank God, and there was a scene with two teen guys kissing and the mom walking in on them.

That is way way taking it too far. I get the real issues and all, just trying to deal with openly but come on. Not for young kids.
 
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Root of Jesse

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and the Catholic Church will find a way around this one too... they already have in certain ways. Just like they found a way around divorce, remarriage and ABC, they are going to find a loop hole to this too becuase we would not want to run all these ppl away from the Church.

Huh? A way around divorce? How's that? No such thing as remarriage, don't know what you're reading...There's no way around ABC either.

Divorce-wrong
Remarriage-wrong
ABC-wrong.

Always were, always will.

If you're talking about annullments, those aren't a way around divorce (you still have to get a divorce before you can even apply for an annullment). You cannot remarry. If you got an annullment, then your marriage was never valid. So you can only marry. Regarding birth control, certainly there's NFP, but it's not nearly the same thing as ABC, sorry.
 
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Root of Jesse

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Okay, here is my thing... why can't I "embrace" a gay couple?

Not condone with or agree with but why can't I treat them the same way I would treat a couple who isn't married properly according to the Church or who is living together? (the two are the same anyway.)

When we start treating all the people who mock and spit on the rules like their obnoxious freaks... then I'll treat gay people like that.

I'm over trying to discern or feel guilty if it's wrong to have a friendship with a gay couple.

You can and should treat people with dignity.
 
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MikeK

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That is way way taking it too far. I get the real issues and all, just trying to deal with openly but come on. Not for young kids.

Agreed. I don't have a problem with gays on TV, but the focus should be on loving them as human beings and respecting them as equals, not on watching them make out.

I reserve to change my opinion if a very special iCarli special airs involving Sam and Carli exploring their relationship.
 
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Andy Hardy

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. Food Network has an openly gay Iron Chef (Cat Cora) who has a wife and three or four children.

I'm curious. You find this a problem, why exactly ?

What if Cat was divorced, remarried and was raising four kids ?

What if she was using ABC to avoiding having more the four kids ?

Would you still be outraged ?
 
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Root of Jesse

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They may have been around forever. Its not annulments, its the Church's abuse. what hasn't been around forever is divorcing a guy just becuase you don't like his eye color anymore...

Its the Church knowing these ppl are full of it and granting these annulments anyway- lettin a 2, 3, 4 times divorcee even marry again.

but you know, "Everybody makes mistakes..."

Got some stats about that? Hey, I'm not saying that there isn't abuse, but it's not as simple as you may believe it is.
 
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Andy Hardy

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Well the media is very guilty of the problems of lack of valours in addition of the economic problems because people waste so much in not necessary things. .

All this time I thought the economic problems were caused by social security recipents, Medicare patients and teacher's unions.
 
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Irenaeus

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Hey Mike,

Having sins ranked is a general and well-established norm among Catholic moral theologians, particularly the original Scholastics (later Scholastics admittedly got a bit absurd though).

You can find the rankings variously distributed throughout Thomas' Summa Theologiae, for example. He reasons that because the two ends of marriage are unitive and procreative, the sexual sins that most frustrate those ends are the most sinful because they violate what God intended for human sexuality. inappropriate behavior with animals is clearly the worst since it not only is non-procreative, it's not even within our species, and hence has absolutely zero unitive power.

See especially this Article from Thomas:

On the contrary, Augustine says (De adult. conjug. [The quotation is from Cap. Adulterii xxxii, qu. 7. Cf. Augustine, De Bono Conjugali, viii.]) that "of all these," namely the sins belonging to lust, "that which is against nature is the worst."

I answer that, In every genus, worst of all is the corruption of the principle on which the rest depend. Now the principles of reason are those things that are according to nature, because reason presupposes things as determined by nature, before disposing of other things according as it is fitting. This may be observed both in speculative and in practical matters. Wherefore just as in speculative matters the most grievous and shameful error is that which is about things the knowledge of which is naturally bestowed on man, so in matters of action it is most grave and shameful to act against things as determined by nature. Therefore, since by the unnatural vices man transgresses that which has been determined by nature with regard to the use of venereal actions, it follows that in this matter this sin is gravest of all. After it comes incest, which, as stated above (Article 9), is contrary to the natural respect which we owe persons related to us.

Thomas is hard to understand in this unless you understand what he established earlier in his Summa, but there are other writers today who put it in easier terms. Thomas doesn't mention inappropriate behavior with animals but it is broadly agreed as being the gravest sexual sin one can commit, then homosexuality, and then (as Thomas says) incest.

The sexual sin that is traditionally considered least grave is fornication, if I'm not mistaken.

To Benedicta, the Blessed One, :wave:

but hell is hell right?

My deal is not saying this sin is no big deal but that we are worried about it while we act like the sins that are rampart are not a big deal becuase its not as bad.

If people are going to hell, then they are going to hell, be it a gay or a straight.

I'm just not getting what it matters if its worse.

It does matter for several reasons. First, different sins have different effects upon the spiritual life and on the spiritual well-being of the one who commits them. Lust is well known among Mystical Theologians as causing a particular hatred of God and of Religion, and blindness of the soul. The deeper and more grave that sin becomes, the more and more blind one becomes to spiritual realities. This is also generally true of Pride, but Pride does not cause the same type of blindness.

Furthermore, in this case, if the vice of lust becomes so culturally pervasive that we can no longer depend upon general society to aid us in being virtuous, we will find that it will lead to a collapse to a general sense of moral norms and what our Holy Father has called the "eclipse of God" in Madrid this week. Also, the all vices surrounding lust are so common (because of our fallen nature) that they tend to have a ripple effect throughout a society and also within the heart. Pride, avarice and sloth generally tend to be solitary sins. Lust often is not, except for the one.

The greater the sexual sin, (all sin, actually, but most especially those of lust and pride) the greater the darkness becomes and the more difficult it is to penetrate.

This all being said, I 100% agree with you, Benedicta: sin is sin, and its gravity is what it is, regardless if one person does it or one million. However, certain sins are more grave than others and do demand greater attention, both pastorally and in our prayers and loving outreach.
 
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Root of Jesse

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I have many gay friends, as I have said. Scott and I share season tickets to live theater, music and dance events. As close as I come to a dating relationship, this is the man. He is gay. His long time partner, John, does not like theater but never misses a game day party at our place. He and my brother go to all kinds of sporting events.

They are both decent people. Their relationship is really none of my business. If their lifestyle is sinful, they are not accountable to me for that sin.

It is not up to me to condone or condemn. I have my own sinful nature to overcome, and my own judgment to face.

I am not without sin, so I have no stone to cast.

It is up to you not to encourage, though...there's more than one way to sin: 1. Counsel: Giving advice or direction to the evil-doer;
2. Command: Ordering or inducing another to commit sin;
3. Consent: approving of the sin, before or after its act;
4. Provocation: Inciting or urging one to commit sin;
5. Praise or flattery: Inciting or urging one to commit sin by praise;
6. Concealment: helping one to commit sin by offering to conceal the crime;
7. Partnership: Sharing the fruits of another’s sin;
8. Silence: Not speaking out when we should, or not acting to prevent sin when obliged;
9. Defending evil: Attempting to justify the evil actions of others.
 
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MikeK

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Hey Mike,

Having sins ranked is a general and well-established norm among Catholic moral theologians, particularly the original Scholastics (later Scholastics admittedly got a bit absurd though).

That's what I thought you'd say. We're under no obligation to believe these writings to be truth though, and I don;t think the Church says that "inappropriate behavior with animals is worse than homosexuality which is in turn worse than masturbation, which is in turn worse than fornication" though.
 
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Andy Hardy

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From above:

Wherefore just as in speculative matters the most grievous and shameful error is that which is about things the knowledge of which is naturally bestowed on man, so in matters of action it is most grave and shameful to act against things as determined by nature.

Thank you

I have now final figure out why its so important for some people to reject, out of hand, that homosexuality is an inate orientation.

I hope I don't have to explain it.
 
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Root of Jesse

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So is what heterosexuals do... but I don't see threads about the horror of heterosexuals in the media who sleep around, have kids all over the place, who take ABC, who live together, or who, becuase the Catholic Church for what ever reason won't marry the Catholic couple or becuase they don't want to wait, they go and get married by the Lutheran pastor down the road.

These are all pure sins.

I don't see any one being made sick over or complaining about them being obnoxious and being all up in the media and they are ALL OVER Hollywood and have been for decades influencing our children... I do not see why this is any worse or different- its just another layer add to the pile, is all.

All I can say is open your eyes. The thing is there so much in this world we should be 'made sick' about...but we also have to thank God for allowing us our time on earth.
 
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Irenaeus

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Mike,

That's what I thought you'd say. We're under no obligation to believe these writings to be truth though, and I don;t think the Church says that "inappropriate behavior with animals is worse than homosexuality which is in turn worse than masturbation, which is in turn worse than fornication" though.

The general teaching of moral theologians coupled with the Ordinary Magisterium of the Church is material binding upon the conscience of the Catholic Christian.

We don't always say these things because they are more specialized to experts, but it does belong to our patrimony (read, Deposit of Faith) and should not be discarded without peril.
 
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Root of Jesse

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There's such a disconnect and a mixed message... love the sinner- but its gross and obnoxious to see gay ppl on TV. Well, okay then.

You know what? Its also gross and obnoxious to see hetero's pure sins being taken seriously on TV and in life but we don't see threads about that.

If a hetero couple post a thread discussing their living situation and how they accidentally had sex, we give them encouragement becuase after all, they are human and in love and as long as they did not use ABC, then its all good.

I don't know, I do not know why they are homosexual and lesbian people in the world but they are and its not for me to figure out why.

It's a sin but we have to live among them and our kids, like it or not, will be raised to not blink an eye at it, the same way we know we all do not blink an eye at all the other accepted sins.

It will become an accepted sin- it already is and is it right? No, but tell me, are the other accepted sins right? No. But we aren't freaking out over them.

As Catholics, we have to live in the world but not become of the world. I'm not going to ever get to the point of thinking these aren't really sins but I'm not going to live my life all up in arms about it either.

It is what it is.

We have been slowly losing this culture war and we'll keep losing it and yes, we are supposed to be evangelizing the world but we aren't and we need to take a good honest look at the fact that we suck at evangelizing the world. WE are responsible for this, so get over yourselves please!

Venting about how the gay media agenda makes you sick is not evangelizing.

and the fake *** Catholics who can't even seem to stay married themselves are not helping out the situation.

So why don't we work on cleaning up out own backyard before we try to show the poor sinners the error of their ways.

I think it's funny how you would take an "I hate the media" thread and think it's only about homosexuality. I stopped watching all network television because of the base-ness of it, with one exception-Extreme Makeover-Home Edition. I don't like shows that deal with people's lives-I don't even like Giulliana and Bill (my wife loves it), because I know that one reason they're having trouble conceiving is because of artificial birth control in her past.

It's very nice of you to judge why we have this forum-because media, all of it, is too sexually charged.
 
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Root of Jesse

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LOL - that's what irks me most. The media portrays all sorts of sinful things as "normal". Consumerism, greed, lust, irreverence, gossip, what have you. What gets the attention of the Catholics? The gays.

Thanks for lumping us all together...I write about that stuff all the time.
 
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WarriorAngel

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I'm not sure that "not as bad a sin" is the right language. I don't think that the fact that homosexuality is disordered makes the sin worse....if anything, a disordered pasion might even reduce culpability, even if the sin is objectively worse (which I'm not convinced it is).

At any rate, we are to hate all sin, not just the ones we think are icky.
Sexual sins are mortal. So yah, there is a difference in sins it is called venial and mortal [latin for death or hell]
homosexual sins have greater gravity than sins we can pray for. [st John] tho we dont need it specified in categorical terms, the outline in total of scriptures says it. See the whole 1st chapter of Romans.
Neither fornicators nor those who act on homosexuality will go to Heaven NOR THOSE who agree with those who do these things.
SO not even defenders of the acts will go to Heaven..
The word homosexual wasnt known back then, so Paul details the acts.
Do you remember when you decided to become a heterosexual? I don't.


No - BUT ask a homosexual and they do in fact remember - because it isnt something that is normal and their consciences do remember the 1st time they began to let the temptations sink into their awareness.
 
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MikeK

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Mike,



The general teaching of moral theologians coupled with the Ordinary Magisterium of the Church is material binding upon the conscience of the Catholic Christian.

We don't always say these things because they are more specialized to experts, but it does belong to our patrimony (read, Deposit of Faith) and should not be discarded without peril.

I disagree that there has been enough thought, especially in recent centuries as the Church's understanding of sexuality has improved, put into the matter of grading sexual sins that we could consider it to be part of the general teaching of moral theologians. While I agree that we shouldn't dismiss such teachings out-of-hand, it's important to remember that very much of what they thought about sin and sexuality is now taught by the Church to be false. The Church's relative silence on the matter of ranking sexual sins shouldn't be taken to be an endorsement.
 
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MikeK

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Sexual sins are mortal. So yah, there is a difference in sins it is called venial and mortal [latin for death or hell]
homosexual sins have greater gravity than sins we can pray for. [st John] tho we dont need it specified in categorical terms, the outline in total of scriptures says it. See the whole 1st chapter of Romans.
Neither fornicators nor those who act on homosexuality will go to Heaven NOR THOSE who agree with those who do these things.
SO not even defenders of the acts will go to Heaven..
The word homosexual wasnt known back then, so Paul details the acts.

That's missing the point. We weren't talking about a difference between mortal and venial sin but the relative gravity of specific category of mortal sins.
 
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