I hate the media

[S.ilvio]

Its hatred when we get tired of people telling us we're wrong and evil for not accepting homosexuality, for telling us we have to change our minds and re-educate our children? No.

Thats going from one extremist view point to another.

Gay folk are human beings and sinners just like you. You're at their level. No better nor worse in God's eyes. He loves us all equally.

So going around vilifying Gay people (my nephew) curries no favour with God and wearing the fig leaf of 'loving the sinner, hating the sin' doesn't fool him either...

 

[benedictaoo]

The gay men/women I know are activists, so they definitely want to be regarded as morally equivalent to a straight couple and they want the definition of marriage changed. They aren't content with civil unions.

what concerns me honestly is once they win on that front, they will then go after Churches and that will be nothing nice if that happens.

 

[benedictaoo]

The way I have always heard the expression used is that the object (in this case it would be homosexuality) is a sin with nothing redeeming in it. It is just wrong. It is against God's will. Sort of like "unrefined" sin.

Wow, so you are not blown away that we accept two ppl having sex and/or living together who is not married and who has kids out of wed lock or who is Catholic but married by a judge or a Lutheran pastor, you are not blown away that they live in pure sin according to the Church and we think literately nothing of it?

We think nothing of it becuase we have gotten use to it and I was raised with it as a normal functioning part of society. The Catholic Church even found ways around it.

"And this to shall pass" is all I'm saying.

Y'all get over your freaking out becuase this is not the first abomination society has sprung on the Catholic community.

Gays are here to stay and they will become a normal functioning part of society and our kids will be raised to think its perfectly normal, just as we think divorce and living together, having kids with three different dads is perfectly acceptable.

You need to be able to put it in perspective. Yes its a sin... but what isn't these days? we will have to live among it, just like we have to live among those couples who live, have sex and kids with ppl they are not married to or married to properly.
The Catholic Church found a way around that- she will find a loop hole for this one too.

 

[AMDG]

So going around vilifying Gay people (my nephew) curries no favour with God and wearing the fig leaf of 'loving the sinner, hating the sin' doesn't fool him either...

But neither does approval of wrong behavior. In fact, seeming approval is a scandal.

Since "gay" means actively doing what God considers abomination, it's the activity that is being vilified--not the person. The person is considered to have to bear a very heavy cross. (Read the CCC.) We *cannot* approve of sin--whether it is someone else's or ours, whether it is of a sexual nature or some other sin.

 

[AMDG]

our kids will be raised to think its perfectly normal

It is still wrong. It is sin. And I pity the folks who would purposely lead children astray. Jesus had some harsh words to say about those people.

(BTW, I hope you don't hold that fornication is fine and dandy, and that it's okay for people to live together without marriage, or that contraception and abortion are okay too. We know that they are not.)

 

[benedictaoo]

So is what heterosexuals do... but I don't see threads about the horror of heterosexuals in the media who sleep around, have kids all over the place, who take ABC, who live together, or who, becuase the Catholic Church for what ever reason won't marry the Catholic couple or becuase they don't want to wait, they go and get married by the Lutheran pastor down the road.

These are all pure sins.

I don't see any one being made sick over or complaining about them being obnoxious and being all up in the media and they are ALL OVER Hollywood and have been for decades influencing our children... I do not see why this is any worse or different- its just another layer add to the pile, is all.

 

[benedictaoo]

But neither does approval of wrong behavior. In fact, seeming approval is a scandal.

Since "gay" means actively doing what God considers abomination, it's the activity that is being vilified--not the person. The person is considered to have to bear a very heavy cross. (Read the CCC.) We *cannot* approve of sin--whether it is someone else's or ours, whether it is of a sexual nature or some other sin.

I think he's point is and if its not his point, its mine...

You don't seem to have that same "passion" for the heterosexuals who are just everywhere with their pure sins... for some reason, y'all think the gay persons sexual sins are somehow different and its really not.

yeah- two straights can repent and marry correctly or what ever, provided they really do repent mind you...and they are not just being fake.

and have no idea why you think a gay person can not have the same conversion and live chaste...

Its harder for them becuase a straight person can still have a relationship if they make it right but a gay person won't be able to.

So I don't know what's up with everybody- yeah its a sin but what are they to do?

No, really AMDG, what are they to do? What are we to do with them?

These are real life reality based questions... I don't want the ideal, I want to know practically speaking what are WE to do and what are they to do in this crazy world?

 

[MikeK]

So is what heterosexuals do... but I don't see threads about the horror of heterosexuals in the media who sleep around, have kids all over the place, who take ABC, who live together, or who, becuase the Catholic Church for what ever reason won't marry the Catholic couple or becuase they don't want to wait, they go and get married by the Lutheran pastor down the road.

It's funny, but on OBOB and CAF there has always been more interest in hating the sins that "other people" commit - the relatively rare sins that most of us aren't tempted with, sins like homosexuality, abortion, etc. Few are interested in threads about how gluttony runs rampant in the West and what poor stewards we are collectively. That stuff gets ignored mostly, I suspect, because people would rather feel superior for not committing a sin they were never tempted by in the first place than for humbly trying to free themselves from their own sinful lifestyles.

 

[AMDG]

You don't seem to have that same "passion" for the heterosexuals who are just everywhere with their pure sins

Actually, you don't know. The topic is sin--breaking the Ten Commandments--it's breaking God's word for us. Breaking the 6 Precepts of the Church is also sinful because God gave His authority to bind and loose to the Church. It sounds like the only reason you are saying that living "gay" is because you are fine with this sin (because you have said that you know a couple) and you have "misplaced compassion".

and have no idea why you think a gay person can not have the same conversion and live chaste...

Actually I *have* said that the homosexual (not "gay" because "gay" means he's still into the lifestyle) has a very heavy cross to bear. It's a personal stuggle. I *have* said that we don't wear our sexual preferences on name tags or on signs around our necks. It's nothing that should be "out there". And furthermore, I said that homosexuality is a choice (there have been conversions and COURAGE *has* had success in this respect.) The object of love is to wish the best for a person. It is not to wish problems on him. It is not to wish that he spends eternity separated from God. It is not to wish AIDS upon him. It is not to wish relationship problems on him. It is not to wish confusion upon a person. And it's only too obvious that just acceptance of this lifestyle choice (which is sin) doesn't lead to a person to get out of this sin--it just allows him to be more "comfy" in this sin. To *not* do that and instead encourage the person to change to be chaste (or even experience a greater conversion) is showing love--real love and not "misplaced compassion", which isn't compassionate at all.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I feel the same way about black people and Jews.

They're just everywhere.

ick

I would never suggest you are bigots.

I'd just come out and say it.

I'm just saying what I don't like




I don't see the false analog but then, I am not smart

Um, could be because you are hating races of ppl vs sins.
FWIW - like i told ppl who feel like this, if you dislike someone's color - of which God created - you are stating boldy to God that you dislike His Intelligent designs.

AND make no mistake, God created all ppl and He loves them. Color wraps arent what makes the person.

SIN on the other hand makes the person. And in that instance they need counseling.

Retrain the brain.

I know some lesbian couples and what can I say, they are lovely ppl.

And yeah, at one point last year, I was hanging out at Chuck E Cheese with a lesbian couple and my kids were playing we their artificially inseminated sperm doner children, who the boy, he is totally gay already at age 9 or 10.... I began to ask myself, is this right? Should I be doing this?

I know some too, but i rather not know their lifestyle choices. I am not worried about the friendship and catering to folks in sin if it means letting them go to the edge of the cliff and fall off.

It takes time to warm up to them [that i understand even in the face of how tight it makes my stomach tho that happens as a reflex and nothing i try to make happen] and then find the moment to bring the subject up, i know that.
Thats how i do it.

However; i always tell someone how to undo the do button in life and explain it is out of love and friendship i say it.

So do we not hang out with them or do we?

It's bothering you probably because you know it seems like you are condoning it. And ya have to sometimes go for the jugular [in a kind way of course lol] and discuss it all. Its not popular, and friendship can end. Thats the chance you take. If they are not in your life, you still tried out of concern to help them. MAYBE they will someday reflect on the loving gesture.

Let the moment arise.

BUT pray for them most.
I know more gay guys than women. But all the same, ppl come and go in our lives. Our impact might eventually help them. Never be afraid to show love this way. There is nothing to lose. [Do it kindly]

 

[benedictaoo]

It's funny, but on OBOB and CAF there has always been more interest in hating the sins that "other people" commit - the relatively rare sins that most of us aren't tempted with, sins like homosexuality, abortion, etc. Few are interested in threads about how gluttony runs rampant in the West and what poor stewards we are collectively. That stuff gets ignored mostly, I suspect, because people would rather feel superior for not committing a sin they were never tempted by in the first place than for humbly trying to free themselves from their own sinful lifestyles.

There's such a disconnect and a mixed message... love the sinner- but its gross and obnoxious to see gay ppl on TV. Well, okay then.

You know what? Its also gross and obnoxious to see hetero's pure sins being taken seriously on TV and in life but we don't see threads about that.

If a hetero couple post a thread discussing their living situation and how they accidentally had sex, we give them encouragement becuase after all, they are human and in love and as long as they did not use ABC, then its all good.

I don't know, I do not know why they are homosexual and lesbian people in the world but they are and its not for me to figure out why.

It's a sin but we have to live among them and our kids, like it or not, will be raised to not blink an eye at it, the same way we know we all do not blink an eye at all the other accepted sins.

It will become an accepted sin- it already is and is it right? No, but tell me, are the other accepted sins right? No. But we aren't freaking out over them.

As Catholics, we have to live in the world but not become of the world. I'm not going to ever get to the point of thinking these aren't really sins but I'm not going to live my life all up in arms about it either.

It is what it is.

We have been slowly losing this culture war and we'll keep losing it and yes, we are supposed to be evangelizing the world but we aren't and we need to take a good honest look at the fact that we suck at evangelizing the world. WE are responsible for this, so get over yourselves please!

Venting about how the gay media agenda makes you sick is not evangelizing.

and the fake *** Catholics who can't even seem to stay married themselves are not helping out the situation.

So why don't we work on cleaning up out own backyard before we try to show the poor sinners the error of their ways.

 

[benedictaoo]

Actually, you don't know. The topic is sin--breaking the Ten Commandments--it's breaking God's word for us. Breaking the 6 Precepts of the Church is also sinful because God gave His authority to bind and loose to the Church. It sounds like the only reason you are saying that living "gay" is because you are fine with this sin (because you have said that you know a couple) and you have "misplaced compassion".

I don't know "a" couple, I know several, s-e-v-e-r-a-l and they are some really great people, better people then some of the righteous "Catholics" I know who lie, cheat and steal... literally, who beat their wives and walk out on their kids but who would never miss a Mass.

So I need you to tell me what am I to do?

Spit on them? Be grossed out? Get sick when I see them? what? You tell me what am I to do? Preach at em'? Avoid em' like the plague?

Actually I *have* said that the homosexual (not "gay" because "gay" means he's still into the lifestyle) has a very heavy cross to bear. It's a personal stuggle. I *have* said that we don't wear our sexual preferences on name tags or on signs around our necks. It's nothing that should be "out there". And furthermore, I said that homosexuality is a choice (there have been conversions and COURAGE *has* had success in this respect.) The object of love is to wish the best for a person. It is not to wish problems on him. It is not to wish that he spends eternity separated from God. It is not to wish AIDS upon him. It is not to wish relationship problems on him. It is not to wish confusion upon a person. And it's only too obvious that just acceptance of this lifestyle choice (which is sin) doesn't lead to a person to get out of this sin--it just allows him to be more "comfy" in this sin. To *not* do that and instead encourage the person to change to be chaste (or even experience a greater conversion) is showing love--real love and not "misplaced compassion", which isn't compassionate at all.

And I think the point is this; A) you really can not say what its like to be gay and look at living the life that the Church asks you.

B) and while they are being asked to live this holy life, other Catholics can sin their life away, go to confession and one day make it right.

C) no, I do not believe all homosexuality is a choice, some yes... I think some lesbians choose to be becuase they have man issues. I think some boys were made gay becuase they were molested, some by priests (hows that for irony).

But overall- I don't think they are choosing this. Who would choose this?

D) Lets open threads about all the sins of the world and talk about them in the same fashion.

 

[MikeK]

There's such a disconnect and a mixed message... love the sinner- but its gross and obnoxious to see gay ppl on TV. Well, okay then.

You know what? Its also gross and obnoxious to see hetero's pure sins being taken seriously on TV and in life but we don't see threads about that.

If a hetero couple post a thread discussing their living situation and how they accidentally had sex, we give them encouragement becuase after all, they are human and in love and as long as they did not use ABC, then its all good.

I don't know, I do not know why they are homosexual and lesbian people in the world but they are and its not for me to figure out why.

It's a sin but we have to live among them and our kids, like it or not, will be raised to not blink an eye at it, the same way we know we all do not blink an eye at all the other accepted sins.

It will become an accepted sin- it already is and is it right? No, but tell me, are the other accepted sins right? No. But we aren't freaking out over them.

As Catholics, we have to live in the world but not become of the world. I'm not going to ever get to the point of thinking these aren't really sins but I'm not going to live my life all up in arms about it either.

It is what it is.

We have been slowly losing this culture war and we'll keep losing it and yes, we are supposed to be evangelizing the world but we aren't and we need to take a good honest look at the fact that we suck at evangelizing the world. WE are responsible for this, so get over yourselves please!

Venting about how the gay media agenda makes you sick is not evangelizing.

and the fake *** Catholics who can't even seem to stay married themselves are not helping out the situation.

So why don't we work on cleaning up out own backyard before we try to show the poor sinners the error of their ways.

I agree. We have a silly double standard that we apply to gays who sin and it isn't fair or right. Several months ago there was a relatively short thread about a person who was engaged to be married and was living with and sleeping with their fiance. The tone of the thread was "eh, congrats on your upcoming nuptuals! God knows your hearts." There was also a thread involving a Catholic homosexual who was in a sexual relationship - committing the exact same sin. The crowd was considerably more judgemental of the homosexual's sin thatn the heterosexual's. If anything, it should have been the other way around - to the hetero you could seay "jeez, can't you just wait a few months?" The homosexual is being called to a lifetime of chastity with absolutely zero sexual eppisodes ever, and unlike Priests, the homosexual doesn't choose the calling. It is a really, really heavy cross, and I think that those of us who are lucky enough to be heterosexuals ought to be VERY thankful that we don't have to bare it.

 

[MikeK]

D) Lets open threads about all the sins of the world and talk about them in the same fashion.

LOL - that's what irks me most. The media portrays all sorts of sinful things as "normal". Consumerism, greed, lust, irreverence, gossip, what have you. What gets the attention of the Catholics? The gays.

 

[benedictaoo]

Um, could be because you are hating races of ppl vs sins.

I just want you to be an equal opportunity sin hater is all.

I know some too, but i rather not know their lifestyle choices. I am not worried about the friendship and catering to folks in sin if it means letting them go to the edge of the cliff and fall off.

It takes time to warm up to them [that i understand even in the face of how tight it makes my stomach tho that happens as a reflex and nothing i try to make happen] and then find the moment to bring the subject up, i know that.
Thats how i do it.

However; i always tell someone how to undo the do button in life and explain it is out of love and friendship i say it.



It's bothering you probably because you know it seems like you are condoning it. And ya have to sometimes go for the jugular [in a kind way of course lol] and discuss it all. Its not popular, and friendship can end. Thats the chance you take. If they are not in your life, you still tried out of concern to help them. MAYBE they will someday reflect on the loving gesture.

Let the moment arise.

BUT pray for them most.
I know more gay guys than women. But all the same, ppl come and go in our lives. Our impact might eventually help them. Never be afraid to show love this way. There is nothing to lose. [Do it kindly]

Wow, really?

All done in love... becuase we are the salt of the earth, we're just flavoring up the world with some loving salt.

I think I'll start using this approach first with all the heterosexual couples I know who are living in sin and who have premarital sex and who are not married correctly according to the Catholic Church.

and then when I'm done with them, I'm gonna go grab me all the ABC practicing Catholics.

and then I'm going to go after all the Catholics who defraud the IRS.

and all the divorced couples. Can't leave them out...

and then my favorite, those who went out, got remarried unlawfully first before they sought that annulment.

and then I'm going to have a conversation with the powers that be at my diocese becuase they are who is letting all this go on.

and then when I take care of all this, then I'll get a hold of those gays and lesbians.

 

[benedictaoo]

I agree. We have a silly double standard that we apply to gays who sin and it isn't fair or right. Several months ago there was a relatively short thread about a person who was engaged to be married and was living with and sleeping with their fiance. The tone of the thread was "eh, congrats on your upcoming nuptuals! God knows your hearts." There was also a thread involving a Catholic homosexual who was in a sexual relationship - committing the exact same sin. The crowd was considerably more judgemental of the homosexual's sin thatn the heterosexual's. If anything, it should have been the other way around - to the hetero you could seay "jeez, can't you just wait a few months?" The homosexual is being called to a lifetime of chastity with absolutely zero sexual eppisodes ever, and unlike Priests, the homosexual doesn't choose the calling. It is a really, really heavy cross, and I think that those of us who are lucky enough to be heterosexuals ought to be VERY thankful that we don't have to bare it.

But heterosexuality is ordered so that is why its a not as bad sin and heterosexuality is a disorder and that is why its an horrific abomination to God.

I get that part but the wages of sin is still death... right? Unless we're going to play the, their hell won't be as nearly as bad, card.

In society we need to be equally shocked and appalled by and concerned for the souls of the heterosexual sins as we are the gay ones.

 

[benedictaoo]

LOL - that's what irks me most. The media portrays all sorts of sinful things as "normal". Consumerism, greed, lust, irreverence, gossip, what have you. What gets the attention of the Catholics? The gays.

Exactly what I'm saying.

Who here blinks an eye at the artificial contraception commercials where the one girl laughs at the stork who is trying to bring her a baby as she picks up a trip to Paris and walks out the door with it?

if that is not a, anti baby, live for yourself only ad that I firmly believe is what contributes to young mothers and fathers killing their babies these days...

or the plan B commercial pill given to 17 year olds over the counter?

But were freaking out over two adult gay men on TV and calling it obnoxious...

 

[AMDG]

Lets open threads about all the sins of the world and talk about them in the same fashion.

Need me to begin with the Ten Commandments? Shall I print out the 6 Precepts of the Church? Or maybe you'd be interested in the 8 Beatitudes? Of course, you can read it yourself in the CCC. Need me to lists sites that have the Bible, the CCC, etc.?

Honestly Bene, you act like sin doesn't separate us from God--*eternally*.

And no, I don't find it just dandy for people to "in your face" decide to "gift" others with their sexuality--normal or not. I simply don't watch those shows. (Don't go to many movies either.) But it's not just the sin of the sexual or homosexual act that bothers me--I don't believe in stealing either and don't know many people who applaud when things are stolen. And that's a sin too. Same with killing. And we know where coveting leads us. I do try to follow the Ten Commandments and the word of God. (I bet you do too.) And there *is* something about not gleefullly enjoying the sins of others. Sin is shameful. It is not something to be celebrated. When I fail to live up to what God wants I humbly (and shamefully) confess my failures--my sins--and promise God to do better. (I bet you do too.)

Hmmm--that's the problem. The homosexuals that are living the "gay" lifestyle (not the one's trying to live in God's word) have no shame. They want their chosen lifestyle celebrated. They are "in your face". But it sure isn't helpful to help them do that. It simply means that they will have heartache and be eternally separated from God because they somehow think things are just dandy and they can just "carry on" like usual. And of course, if they happen to drag confused children into their sinful mire, well Jesus already said some rather harsh words about that.

Another thing, why is it a problem if I don't applaud sinful behavior--if I don't watch TV soaps that have wife swapping, or buy products that advertise sinful behavior? Why does it matter? I regularly boycott companies that are not in keeping with God's law. Now I'm not allowed to have an opinion or to act on it by simply not purchasing a product being "hawked"? How far does this go?

 

[MikeK]

But heterosexuality is ordered so that is why its a not as bad sin and heterosexuality is a disorder and that is why its an horrific abomination to God.

I'm not sure that "not as bad a sin" is the right language. I don't think that the fact that homosexuality is disordered makes the sin worse....if anything, a disordered pasion might even reduce culpability, even if the sin is objectively worse (which I'm not convinced it is).

At any rate, we are to hate all sin, not just the ones we think are icky.

 

[benedictaoo]

Need me to begin with the Ten Commandments? Shall I print out the 6 Precepts of the Church? Or maybe you'd be interested in the 8 Beatitudes? Of course, you can read it yourself in the CCC. Need me to lists sites that have the Bible, the CCC, etc.?

Honestly Bene, you act like sin doesn't separate us from God--*eternally*.

And no, I don't find it just dandy for people to "in your face" decide to "gift" others with their sexuality--normal or not. I simply don't watch those shows. (Don't go to many movies either.) But it's not just the sin of the sexual or homosexual act that bothers me--I don't believe in stealing either and don't know many people who applaud when things are stolen. And that's a sin too. Same with killing. And we know where coveting leads us. I do try to follow the Ten Commandments and the word of God. (I bet you do too.) And there *is* something about not gleefullly enjoying the sins of others. Sin is shameful. It is not something to be celebrated. When I fail to live up to what God wants I humbly (and shamefully) confess my failures--my sins--and promise God to do better. (I bet you do too.)

Hmmm--that's the problem. The homosexuals that are living the "gay" lifestyle (not the one's trying to live in God's word) have no shame. They want their chosen lifestyle celebrated. They are "in your face". But it sure isn't helpful to help them do that. It simply means that they will have heartache and be eternally separated from God because they somehow think things are just dandy and they can just "carry on" like usual. And of course, if they happen to drag confused children into their sinful mire, well Jesus already said some rather harsh words about that.

Another thing, why is it a problem if I don't applaud sinful behavior--if I don't watch TV soaps that have wife swapping, or buy products that advertise sinful behavior? Why does it matter? I regularly boycott companies that are not in keeping with God's law. Now I'm not allowed to have an opinion or to act on it by simply not purchasing a product being "hawked"? How far does this go?

I'm the one who is saying it all will separate us from God- all of the sins, not just the gay ones.

What I want is for you to hate on all the sins, not just the gay ones but you can't and you know deep down you can't muster up the hate becuase you understand the plight of the heterosexual and you just don't know what it's like to be gay living in 2011.

and straight ppl live the life of sin too and flaunt it more then the gays.