Does God hate people?

[JesusFreak78]

I think with teachings like this, it is no wonder people are leaving churches in droves. Hate is sin, it's not that hard to understand.

God doesn't sin when He hates. People can sin when they hate, but remember, not all hate is sinful. You have righteous hate (Proverbs 13:5), as in hating falsehood. It's sinful to hate your brother (1 John 3:15, 1 John 4:20).

Our concern shouldn't be with people leaving or flocking to the church, but to preach all of God's Word.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Did God love Esau?

Very good question, if God shows favouritism .. should we? if god hates people then should we? where does the example of Jesus go? what of the perfect law of liberty that is engrafted into us when we are born again of the Spirit?

In general, if God does it, then we should do it also. Jesus even said "greater things" than these will manifest to those who believe in him, because he goes to the father .. so if the Father hates and does not exemplify the teachings .. then what point is there in believing if believing in God manifests a world of hate and death and destruction. No, Jesus told the apostles to not get sidetracked and just preach the good news . so if there's some good news .. let's hear it.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

God doesn't sin when He hates. People can sin when they hate, but remember, not all hate is sinful. You have righteous hate (Proverbs 13:5), as in hating falsehood. It's sinful to hate your brother (1 John 3:15, 1 John 4:20).

Our concern shouldn't be with people leaving or flocking to the church, but to preach all of God's Word.

We are instructed to be as God is in this world in a number of passages, so I think teaching it as a child would understand remains best, that's the part that operates in God's kingdom anyway.

 

[supersoldier71]

Yes but in Romans Paul starts with the bad news: apart from grace, we are all completely without hope.

The Good News of the Gospel is not that God will not judge those outside His grace, it's that He will judge those under grace on Christ's account. We are pronounced justified by Christ's perfect work on the cross.

The doddering and powerless "god" who loves everyone and just "wishes" people would love him is a lie.

We love Him only because He loved us first.

 

[JesusFreak78]

We are instructed to be as God is in this world in a number of passages, so I think teaching it as a child would understand remains best, that's the part that operates in God's kingdom anyway.

Maybe you can list those passages, so I know which one you're talking about.

 

[WarriorAngel]

God cannot literally hate - because it's not His nature.
He IS literally Love.
When the OT says 'I hate...[etc]' that's a human being putting emotions unto God.
However; it was a basic understanding of the truth in the fact that God hates sin - not humans.

 

[JesusFreak78]

God cannot literally hate - because it's not His nature.
He IS literally Love.
When the OT says 'I hate...[etc]' that's a human being putting emotions unto God.
However; it was a basic understanding of the truth in the fact that God hates sin - not humans.

So what about Romans 9:13?

 

[WarriorAngel]

So what about Romans 9:13?

I believe i already covered that in my post.
It means He hates the sin - not the person.

 

[JesusFreak78]

I believe i already covered that in my post.
It means He hates the sin - not the person.

I think you should read the verse again, since that verse doesn't say anything about sin. For your benefit, I will make it easy for you and post the verse below.

Romans 9:13:
Just as it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

Romans 9:13 is a quote from Malachi 1:2-3.

Malachi 1:2-3
2 “I have loved you,” says the Lord. But you say, “How have You loved us?” “Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the Lord. “Yet I have loved Jacob;
3 but I have hated Esau, and I have made his mountains a desolation and appointed his inheritance for the jackals of the wilderness.”

Again, nothing about sin in either of those verses.

 

[supersoldier71]

"...though they were not yet born, and had done nothing good or bad--in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of [H]im who calls--she was told, 'The older will serve the younger' As it is written, 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.'"

BEFORE they were born, God determined Esau's fate.

While we are taught to follow Christ and His example, we must also accept that there are some things, some authorities which God has reserved for Himself alone. God alone can declare Himself God. God alone can justify a person. And God alone can condemn.

God bless.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I think you should read the verse again, since that verse doesn't say anything about sin. For your benefit, I will make it easy for you and post the verse below.

Romans 9:13:
Just as it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

Romans 9:13 is a quote from Malachi 1:2-3.

Malachi 1:2-3
2 “I have loved you,” says the Lord. But you say, “How have You loved us?” “Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the Lord. “Yet I have loved Jacob;
3 but I have hated Esau, and I have made his mountains a desolation and appointed his inheritance for the jackals of the wilderness.”

Again, nothing about sin in either of those verses.

He didnt literally hate the person but his sins and punished him.
Esau’s choice to sell his birthright is used as an example of ungodliness—a “godless” person who will put physical desires over spiritual blessings (Hebrews 12:15-17). By his negative example, Esau teaches us to hold fast to what is truly important, even if it means denying the appetites of the flesh. Both Old and New Testaments use the story of Jacob and Esau to illustrate God’s calling and election. God chose the younger Jacob to carry on the Abrahamic Covenant, while Esau was providentially excluded from the Messianic line (Malachi 1:2-3;Romans 9:11-14).

 

[JesusFreak78]

He didnt literally hate the person but his sins and punished him.
Esau’s choice to sell his birthright is used as an example of ungodliness—a “godless” person who will put physical desires over spiritual blessings (Hebrews 12:15-17). By his negative example, Esau teaches us to hold fast to what is truly important, even if it means denying the appetites of the flesh. Both Old and New Testaments use the story of Jacob and Esau to illustrate God’s calling and election. God chose the younger Jacob to carry on the Abrahamic Covenant, while Esau was providentially excluded from the Messianic line (Malachi 1:2-3;Romans 9:11-14).

Romans 9:11-13 (emphasis mine)
11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,
12 it was said to her, “The older will serve the younger.”
13 Just as it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

The twins wasn't even born yet, so Romans 9:13 can't be talking about sin.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Jacob was cooking - Esau came home from hunting and said he would give Jacob the food if he gave up his birth right to him. So Esau agreed.
IE the spiritual blessing from God didnt seem to matter.
God didnt hate him as in how you perceive because God doesnt hate, but because Esau was punished HUMANS who wrote the scriptures used those words.

No, God did not hate Esau, but God did prefer Jacob (later known as Israel) over Esau. The Hebrew word used in these passages is translated as hate inThe New American Bible, The New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) andThe New Jerusalem Bible. If God prefers one person over another, biblical writers may say that God loves the one and hates the other, although God cannot hate any person.

According to The NRSV Concordance Unabridged, the word hate occurs 83 times in the Old Testament and 17 times in the New Testament, not counting hated, hates and similar words. In the Old Testament, 78 of those usages apply hate in the context of one person to God, an individual, a group of people or some type of sin. Only five times do we read that God hates in the sense described above.

The New Testament's first usage of hate is a challenge to the idea that one person is allowed to hate another. In Matthew 5:43-45, Jesus says: "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust."

In Luke 14:26-27, however, Jesus employs the Hebrew usage described above when he addresses the great crowds following him and says: "If anyone comes to me without hating his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple." The New American Bible's footnote for this passage notes the similar saying in Matthew 10:37 and explains, "The disciple's family must take second place to the absolute dedication involved in following Jesus (see also Luke 9:59-62)."

Other New Testament passages apply hate as happening between one person and someone else or in the Semitic sense of prefer.

God cannot do anything that contradicts what being God means. For example, God cannot be dishonest or unjust because that would contradict God's truthfulness or justice. The three persons of the Trinity cannot be in competition with one another because that would contradict God's unity.

Sometimes our language about God is deliberately very selective. Saying that God hates some people the way that humans sometimes hate one another could be interpreted as giving someone permission to do the same.

http://www.americancatholic.org/Messenger/Apr2010/Wiseman.asp

 

[JesusFreak78]

Jacob was cooking - Esau came home from hunting and said he would give Jacob the food if he gave up his birth right to him. So Esau agreed.
IE the spiritual blessing from God didnt seem to matter.
God didnt hate him as in how you perceive because God doesnt hate, but because Esau was punished HUMANS who wrote the scriptures used those words.

No, God did not hate Esau, but God did prefer Jacob (later known as Israel) over Esau. The Hebrew word used in these passages is translated as hate inThe New American Bible, The New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) andThe New Jerusalem Bible. If God prefers one person over another, biblical writers may say that God loves the one and hates the other, although God cannot hate any person.

According to The NRSV Concordance Unabridged, the word hate occurs 83 times in the Old Testament and 17 times in the New Testament, not counting hated, hates and similar words. In the Old Testament, 78 of those usages apply hate in the context of one person to God, an individual, a group of people or some type of sin. Only five times do we read that God hates in the sense described above.

The New Testament's first usage of hate is a challenge to the idea that one person is allowed to hate another. In Matthew 5:43-45, Jesus says: "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust."

In Luke 14:26-27, however, Jesus employs the Hebrew usage described above when he addresses the great crowds following him and says: "If anyone comes to me without hating his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple." The New American Bible's footnote for this passage notes the similar saying in Matthew 10:37 and explains, "The disciple's family must take second place to the absolute dedication involved in following Jesus (see also Luke 9:59-62)."

Other New Testament passages apply hate as happening between one person and someone else or in the Semitic sense of prefer.

God cannot do anything that contradicts what being God means. For example, God cannot be dishonest or unjust because that would contradict God's truthfulness or justice. The three persons of the Trinity cannot be in competition with one another because that would contradict God's unity.

Sometimes our language about God is deliberately very selective. Saying that God hates some people the way that humans sometimes hate one another could be interpreted as giving someone permission to do the same.

http://www.americancatholic.org/Messenger/Apr2010/Wiseman.asp

You are not reading what Romans 9:11 is saying. It's clearly stated that this was something God determined before the twins are born. This verse is talking about what God is doing, not what people are told to do or not to do.

 

[WarriorAngel]

You therefore completely skipped the post?

The word hate - in Hebrew can be used for sin or 'prefer'.

 

[JesusFreak78]

You therefore completely skipped the post?

The word hate - in Hebrew can be used for sin or 'prefer'.

The Hebrew word for hate in Malachi 1:3 is שָׂנֵא (sane) and does mean "to hate".

I don't skip the post, but before we start looking all over the bible for verses that doesn't have anything to do with Romans 9:11-13. So instead of avoiding Romans 9:11-13, lets focus on it. I have tried several times, and you have avoided it every time.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Yes but in Romans Paul starts with the bad news: apart from grace, we are all completely without hope.

The Good News of the Gospel is not that God will not judge those outside His grace, it's that He will judge those under grace on Christ's account. We are pronounced justified by Christ's perfect work on the cross.

The doddering and powerless "god" who loves everyone and just "wishes" people would love him is a lie.

We love Him only because He loved us first.

I've heard atheists repeating this doctrine, I was kind of wondering which denomination it came from. Thanks for answering that for me.

Maybe you can list those passages, so I know which one you're talking about.

I'll check back later, I will decide to continue discussing based on how you treat other posters.

 

[JesusFreak78]

I'll check back later, I will decide to continue discussing based on how you treat other posters.

I try to treat other people with respect, and I'm sorry if you feel otherwise.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I try to treat other people with respect, and I'm sorry if you feel otherwise.

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. (1 John 4:17)

Let's try one verse at a time.

 

[Noxot]

What about Matthew 25:31-33 and Matthew 25:41? Are the people on Christ's left side also His children?

this is a parable that reflects an inner purification by the Spirit of God working in us.