Do you think it's Christian to own guns?

[Alithis]

Repentance is a matter between man and God, not man and man.

so- back to my loaded question.. because it is kind of fun bantering it back and forth .
do you oppose Gods wil for your life then ?

that is to say - it is written that there is a set number of martyrs who are put to death for the testimony of Jesus - so is owning a firearm as a means to protect yourself .. sorry i should say "ones self - as its not directed at "you" . is owning a firearm as a means to protect oneself from harm or death seeking to resist the will of god if you are amoung the number called to martyrdom ?

but actually my main point was how passionately concerned a lot of christian gun owners are over the topic and that it displays a great deep impassioned love for the things of this world .. and where the things one treasures are .. that is also where their heart is .
so i find it deeply disturbing when i observe believers in the lord jesus being so obsessed with their worldly rights to own a gun.. ouh that they were so deeply passionate for their calling to preach the gospel and heal the sick drive out devils baptise people and make more disciples - something ONE of us are exempted from - no mater what part of the body we are we are a part of the body whose head is chrsit and we do his will and his will is that the gospel be preached

 

[jiminpa]

I love you Mike, but I completely disagree with your whole supposition this time. It's not my life that I am concerned with, it's those who God has placed in my care, and my neighbors' that I consider. You can't find anywhere in the Bible that God says that it's okay sit by and do nothing while the innocent are harmed by the guilty. Our post-modern world has become so immersed in calling right "wrong" and wrong "right" that we actually come to the defense of the guilty and prosecute their victims. God's word has nothing good to say about that.

If I were to take up arms it would be in the defense of others, or to preserve my ability to care for my children. To sit by and allow Satan to orphan my children would be unconscionable to me. If I don't plant it's not God's fault if I don't have a harvest. If I don't stand against evil it is not God's fault when evil takes what I am not willing to defend.

 

[Alithis]

I love you Mike, but I completely disagree with your whole supposition this time. It's not my life that I am concerned with, it's those who God has placed in my care, and my neighbors' that I consider. You can't find anywhere in the Bible that God says that it's okay sit by and do nothing while the innocent are harmed by the guilty. Our post-modern world has become so immersed in calling right "wrong" and wrong "right" that we actually come to the defense of the guilty and prosecute their victims. God's word has nothing good to say about that.

If I were to take up arms it would be in the defense of others, or to preserve my ability to care for my children. To sit by and allow Satan to orphan my children would be unconscionable to me. If I don't plant it's not God's fault if I don't have a harvest. If I don't stand against evil it is not God's fault when evil takes what I am not willing to defend.

i understand the sentiment -yet the reality differs from the ideal . just as many people who own guns are shot dead . i view it more as using a seat belt -it may save a life ..it may not . our trust should be in God Alone
it is the "spirit of a thing " which counts . The passion towards gun ownership become evidence of where the hearts treasure really is .. not by all but certainly by some .
oh that we all were as passionate for the gospel as some are about their temporal worldly rights .

 

[RDKirk]

A Biblical stance for defending oneself, or others, with firearms is not hard to establish. Most certainly, God wants an armed civil authority to maintain order:

Romans 13
13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

Some might say, that's not for Christians, but that would be incorrect, because Paul converted many of the Roman guard to Christianity, and they certainly did not leave their position, or drop their swords:

The record of Christianity into the 2nd and 3rd centuries indicates they did, indeed, drop their swords. For sure, to a large degree it was because the Roman army was the primary tool of control and oppression of Christians, and it was made clear by emperors from Nero onward that to be Christian was per se to be unpatriotic to Rome.

 

[EinsteinsGirl]

Apart from those needing them for living - do you think people should own guns?
I cannot tie Jesus up with a gun-owner that has them for the sake of having them

I believe people should have a gun if they want.

Then Simon Peter drew a sword and slashed off the right ear of Malchus - John 8:10

We know Jesus' disciples carried swords because Peter chopped off a soldiers ear in the garden. Jesus obviously knew they were armed. We don't have swords in this age, we have guns.

I read an article last summer about a man in a church overseas, Africa I think. They were in the middle of a church service when men entered and started to swipe at people with their long machetes. No one in the church had a weapon because their man-made doctrine was to believe they shouldn't and never fight back. They disagreed with guns. There was one man who carried a hand gun. Because he stood up and shot at the attackers, they fled before anyone was killed.
All the Christians who had given that man grief over carrying a gun were VERY grateful he had one that day.

Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruning hooks into spears. Let the weakling say, "I am strong! - Joel 3:10

One day North American Christians will be attacked like this also, and people should prepare. God does not expect us to sit back and allow rampaged murder. The scripture about turning the cheek when someone slaps you was metaphorical not literal.
Although we mustn't use guns to 'attack' we can and should use them to defend.

 

[Alithis]

I believe people should have a gun if they want.

Then Simon Peter drew a sword and slashed off the right ear of Malchus - John 8:10

We know Jesus' disciples carried swords because Peter chopped off a soldiers ear in the garden. Jesus obviously knew they were armed. We don't have swords in this age, we have guns.

I read an article last summer about a man in a church overseas, Africa I think. They were in the middle of a church service when men entered and started to swipe at people with their long machetes. No one in the church had a weapon because their man-made doctrine was to believe they shouldn't and never fight back. They disagreed with guns. There was one man who carried a hand gun. Because he stood up and shot at the attackers, they fled before anyone was killed.
All the Christians who had given that man grief over carrying a gun were VERY grateful he had one that day.

Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruning hooks into spears. Let the weakling say, "I am strong! - Joel 3:10

One day North American Christians will be attacked like this also, and people should prepare. God does not expect us to sit back and allow rampaged murder. The scripture about turning the cheek when someone slaps you was metaphorical not literal.
Although we mustn't use guns to 'attack' we can and should use them to defend.

this is carnal reasoning to the extreme .

 

[lismore]

Apart from those needing them for living - do you think people should own guns?
I cannot tie Jesus up with a gun-owner that has them for the sake of having them

Owning guns is not sinful, it's owning bullets that causes the problem.

 

[EinsteinsGirl]

this is carnal reasoning to the extreme .

And it's obvious you've not read the bible, friend.
Have a great day

 

[Alithis]

And it's obvious you've not read the bible, friend.
Have a great day

sure i read the bible .. just a little more than single out of context versus .

you refer to John 18 :10 .-peter was not yet filled with the holy Ghost and it was not the first time he had acted "carnally "(in the flesh ) and in context the lord jesus tells him to "put up your sword" .
That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.
Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?
so we see that peters actions were carnal and in opposition to the will of God (again- the former time being when he spoke againt the things the lord jesus had to suffer).

then you refer to Joel ch 3 .

and that is just way out of context .. as you wil see if you read the text and not just the verse .
“What do you have against me, Tyre and Sidon and you cities of Philistia? Are you trying to take revenge on me? If you are, then watch out! I will strike swiftly and pay you back for everything you have done. You have taken my silver and gold and all my precious treasures, and have carried them off to your pagan temples. 6 You have sold the people of Judah and Jerusalem to the Greeks, so they could take them far from their homeland.

“But I will bring them back from all the places to which you sold them, and I will pay you back for everything you have done. I will sell your sons and daughters to the people of Judah, and they will sell them to the people of Arabia, a nation far away. I, the Lord, have spoken!”

Say to the nations far and wide:
“Get ready for war!
Call out your best warriors.
Let all your fighting men advance for the attack.
Hammer your plowshares into swords
and your pruning hooks into spears.
Train even your weaklings to be warriors.
11 Come quickly, all you nations everywhere.
Gather together in the valley.”
And now, O Lord, call out your warriors!
“Let the nations be called to arms.
Let them march to the valley of Jehoshaphat.
There I, the Lord, will sit
to pronounce judgment on them all.
Swing the sickle,
for the harvest is ripe.
Come, tread the grapes,
for the winepress is full.
The storage vats are overflowing
with the wickedness of these people.”
so here also we see the lord is speaking of the wickedness of nations and calling them to where the lord himself will bring judgment on them .

 

[Alithis]

i think it is a great sorrow that "faith" for too many has decreased SO MUCH that thier security is in the arm of the flesh . and no longer in GOD FIRST .

 

[EinsteinsGirl]

i think it is a great sorrow that "faith" for too many has decreased SO MUCH that thier security is in the arm of the flesh . and no longer in GOD FIRST .

I think it's a great sorrow when God given common sense is abandoned and people become snake handlers and poison drinkers because they interpret scripture wrong.

According to the argument you put forth in regards to Peter not having received the infilling of Holy Spirit, you also think the OT is obsolete. What a silly view of things.

By the way, Jesus "used scripture out of context" all the time

 

[Alithis]

I think it's a great sorrow when God given common sense is abandoned and people become snake handlers and poison drinkers because they interpret scripture wrong.

According to the argument you put forth in regards to Peter not having received the infilling of Holy Spirit, you also think the OT is obsolete. What a silly view of things.

By the way, Jesus "used scripture out of context" all the time

nope .. the lord Jesus used the full context .
but you go ahead and own a gun if it makes you feel secure ..
he point i made is that which the lord made when he said . where your treasure is ,there will your heart be also .
what you love ,, you pursue .what you love ,you serve .

 

[Aldebaran]

nope .. the lord Jesus used the full context .
but you go ahead and own a gun if it makes you feel secure ..
he point i made is that which the lord made when he said . where your treasure is ,there will your heart be also .
what you love ,, you pursue .what you love ,you serve .

You equate owning a gun with loving the gun. Don't you believe a person can own anything without "loving" it?

 

[Alithis]

You equate owning a gun with loving the gun. Don't you believe a person can own anything without "loving" it?

sure they can ... i know a man who owns a car .. but he does not love the car .he cares nothing for it ..if someone tells him his car is a waste of time .. he laughs .. he does not defend his car , he does not debate his right to own it , he does not cherish it in any way , he would give up his car in an instant if god told him to .. it holds no place of value to him , he has no sense of dependence upon it , he knows he can trust god to get him were he is going if he is going in the will of God .

this is quite a contrast to those who love their objects - so yes . in regard to those who defend ,with passion, thier right and will and dependency and faith in a gun to protect them .. i do equate it with loving a gun.

 

[Aldebaran]

sure they can ... i know a man who owns a car .. but he does not love the car .he cares nothing for it ..if someone tells him his car is a waste of time .. he laughs .. he does not defend his car , he does not debate his right to own it , he does not cherish it in any way , he would give up his car in an instant if god told him to .. it holds no place of value to him , he has no sense of dependence upon it , he knows he can trust god to get him were he is going if he is going in the will of God .

this is quite a contrast to those who love their objects - so yes . in regard to those who defend ,with passion, thier right and will and dependency and faith in a gun to protect them .. i do equate it with loving a gun.

The reason your comparison to a person loving or not loving their car is not all that accurate because their are different factors that cause guns to be a hot subject. The main reason people are talking about them so much and their right to own them is because that very right is what is being attacked in many ways. Car ownership as a right isn't being threatened. No country has required registration of cars and then used those registration records to confiscate cars. That has happened in the case of guns.

But hey, some people do love their cars and spend a lot of money and time on them, turning them into hot rods, installing ultra loud sound systems and fancy rims, and spend much time underneath them tinkering around trying to maximize performance. It's their hobby. Sure, it can go too far as well. But different people enjoy different things.

 

[Alithis]

The reason your comparison to a person loving or not loving their car is not all that accurate because their are different factors that cause guns to be a hot subject. The main reason people are talking about them so much and their right to own them is because that very right is what is being attacked in many ways. Car ownership as a right isn't being threatened. No country has required registration of cars and then used those registration records to confiscate cars. That has happened in the case of guns.

But hey, some people do love their cars and spend a lot of money and time on them, turning them into hot rods, installing ultra loud sound systems and fancy rims, and spend much time underneath them tinkering around trying to maximize performance. It's their hobby. Sure, it can go too far as well. But different people enjoy different things.

the car ..is merely an analogy.. the point remains the same .

 

[Hishandmaiden]

Well, in Singapore, we don't own guns and I am thankful to the government for this policy.
It may be different in America, though.

 

[supersoldier71]

"He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."

Lord Jesus commanded His disciples to arm themselves. Did He do this because He was unable to protect them? Clearly not. The arming of oneself is not inherently sinful, nor does it mean that I'm relying on something other than God to protect me. If a hurricane were coming would I stay in my house and rely on God to protect me, or would I leave and praise Him for giving me the early warning and ask Him to bless my passage to a safer place?

It seems that the misperception about gun ownership are rooted largely in a misunderstanding about what the gun is. It is a tool, nothing more and nothing less. If that tool--or any other tool--should hold a place in our hearts, minds and souls reserved for God alone, then yes, that is sinful. The other point of contention lies with the interpretation (translation) of the Sixth Commandment: if your Spirit-renewed consciousness tells you that the Sixth Commandment tells you not to kill, well, I would disagree with your interpretation based on the entirety of the Old Testament narrative, but I'd respect your personal position. If your reading of the scripture tells you not to murder, then defending oneself cannot be murder.

These are really the only two points that cause this much disagreement, and I do not feel that they are sufficient to cause angst between blood-bought saints within the Body of Christ.

If you believe as I believe, the Jesus Christ rose from the grave by His own authority, for His glory and our salvation, then we have nothing to argue about. We can discuss a great many things, but we have nothing which should rise to this level of vitriol and bile.

God bless!

 

[Aldebaran]

the car ..is merely an analogy.. the point remains the same .

The point you're making is inaccurate though. As I was saying, guns are something people in government talk about registering so they know who has them, and want to use that database for confiscation. If you don't believe me, then believe the politicians who say it. They even say they want to use Australia's gun laws as a model for what we should have. What did Australia do? They required registration of guns, and then they confiscated all the registered guns.

Cars aren't something that is being threatened with confiscation. Guns are. That's why people are talking about it.

 

[Alithis]

The point you're making is inaccurate though. As I was saying, guns are something people in government talk about registering so they know who has them, and want to use that database for confiscation. If you don't believe me, then believe the politicians who say it. They even say they want to use Australia's gun laws as a model for what we should have. What did Australia do? They required registration of guns, and then they confiscated all the registered guns.

Cars aren't something that is being threatened with confiscation. Guns are. That's why people are talking about it.

i don't care why they are talking about it .. because i don't care if they take folks guns away ..i don't love guns . so it doesn't bother me . so the analogy works just fine