Do you think it's Christian to own guns?

[supersoldier71]

i don't care why they are talking about it .. because i don't care if they take folks guns away ..i don't love guns . so it doesn't bother me . so the analogy works just fine

Do you think that there are brothers and sisters in Christ who own and carry for self-defense? Is it Christian to assume that how you are moved to protect yourself from common criminals and thugs is the only morally sound way for Christians, when the Bible offers many, many examples of the people of God arming themselves?

If then, we have members of the Body of Christ who choose to arm themselves, does it demonstrate the Christian ethic of Love to deprive them of the means to protect themselves because you don't "love guns"?

All the examples you've brought up are not peculiar to guns, they are peculiar to idolatry; if someone is obsessed with a material object, the problem is with our idolatrous hearts, not the object.

As we speak of faith, do we no longer trust the Holy Spirit to convict the hearts of believers when they sin? Do we not rely on the Spirit of God to conform people to the image of Jesus or must we attempt to conform our brothers and sisters to our own, often very narrow, culturally limited views?

God bless!

 

[Alithis]

Do you think that there are brothers and sisters in Christ who own and carry for self-defense? Is it Christian to assume that how you are moved to protect yourself from common criminals and thugs is the only morally sound way for Christians, when the Bible offers many, many examples of the people of God arming themselves?

If then, we have members of the Body of Christ who choose to arm themselves, does it demonstrate the Christian ethic of Love to deprive them of the means to protect themselves because you don't "love guns"?

All the examples you've brought up are not peculiar to guns, they are peculiar to idolatry; if someone is obsessed with a material object, the problem is with our idolatrous hearts, not the object.

As we speak of faith, do we no longer trust the Holy Spirit to convict the hearts of believers when they sin? Do we not rely on the Spirit of God to conform people to the image of Jesus or must we attempt to conform our brothers and sisters to our own, often very narrow, culturally limited views?

God bless!

who said anything about sin.? as for faith.those who get a gun dont do so because god told them to.yhey do it from pride or fear. not faith.

 

[supersoldier71]

who said anything about sin.? as for faith.those who get a gun dont do so because god told them to.yhey do it from pride or fear. not faith.

Untrue. Patently, unequivocally, perhaps maliciously untrue.

Further, if we are not discussing sinful behaviors, why are we discussing it at all? Sin offends God. If we are not discussing actions (or inactions) that offend God, we're just discussing things that offend you. The loaded question that is the premise of this thread asks whether it's "Christian" to own a gun. If it is not offensive to God--sinful--then there's your answer.

Further, you insult the moral courage and intellectual honesty of those who disagree with you, which, it could be argued, violate the second Great Commandment.

Good day, God bless, but this thread would be more accurately titled: respond here if you wish to be insulted.

 

[Alithis]

Untrue. Patently, unequivocally, perhaps maliciously untrue.

Further, if we are not discussing sinful behaviors, why are we discussing it at all? Sin offends God. If we are not discussing actions (or inactions) that offend God, we're just discussing things that offend you. The loaded question that is the premise of this thread asks whether it's "Christian" to own a gun. If it is not offensive to God--sinful--then there's your answer.

Further, you insult the moral courage and intellectual honesty of those who disagree with you, which, it could be argued, violate the second Great Commandment.

Good day, God bless, but this thread would be more accurately titled: respond here if you wish to be insulted.

ahh so it hit the nerve called pride i see. after all.im not offended.so what offends you.?

is it christian.. well christian is to be christ like. see nothing about sin at all.is it christ like?

also you said its not true that people did not buy a gun because God told them too.. So your saying perhaps that you prayed and asked God and he told you to buy a gun .why.. just incase he is unable to protect you?
so i think it is dishonest to claim my statement is untrue for it is true in so many cases.
people do not buy a gun because God told them to.they do so from pride and fear... they do not do so from faith.
we take the example of the lord Jesus..NOT of sinful men. He absolutely knew there were those desiring to murder him... so he what?...went and got loaded up with carnal weapons? nope! he is our example. not what other sinful men did.

 

[supersoldier71]

ahh so it hit the nerve called pride i see. after all.im not offended.so what offends you.?

is it christian.. well christian is to be christ like. see nothing about sin at all.is it christ like?

akso you said its not true that people did not buy a gun because God told them too.. So your saying oerhaps that you prayed and asked God and he told you to buy a gun .why.. just incase he is unable to protect you?
so i think it is dishonest to claim my statment is untrue for it is true in so many cases.
people do not buy a gun because God told them to.they do so from pride and fear... they do not do so from faith.
we take the example of the lord Jesus..NOT of sinful men. He absolutley knew there were thise dediring to murder him... so he what?...went and got loaded up with carnal weapons? nope! he is our example. not what other sinful men did.

Last time: Christ instructed his disciples to arm themselves. Christ is God, this, He had no need to do so.

The BLUF--bottom line up front--is that we are to be Christ like: sin is the separation of ourselves from God, the very antithesis of Christlike. So if you say that it is not sinful, then you are, in fact saying that it is acceptable to God, and thus, it is only your own biases that you're arguing for, which in fact has become clearly evident anyway.

Not being Christlike and being sinful are, in fact, synonymous, so if you accept that gun ownership and use are not sinful, then you are, in fact arguing that it is not counter Christ's message.

At any rate, despite the flaws in your logic, reasoning and conclusions, I salute you: you have won the internet.

Good day and God bless!

 

[Alithis]

Last time: Christ instructed his disciples to arm themselves. Christ is God, this, He had no need to do so.

The BLUF--bottom line up front--is that we are to be Christ like: sin is the separation of ourselves from God, the very antithesis of Christlike. So if you say that it is not sinful, then you are, in fact saying that it is acceptable to God, and thus, it is only your own biases that you're arguing for, which in fact has become clearly evident anyway.

Not being Christlike and being sinful are, in fact, synonymous, so if you accept that gun ownership and use are not sinful, then you are, in fact arguing that it is not counter Christ's message.

At any rate, despite the flaws in your logic, reasoning and conclusions, I salute you: you have won the internet.

Good day and God bless!

so there is a flawed logic in desiring to be like the lord JEsus ?odd statement .

at what point did he arm himself with carnal weapons for Any purpose? ..oh never .
at what point are we to act upon carnal logic ?
we are to obey the lord Jesus in FAith . not do our own will .

so i ask the question i so often ask ,the one you ignored .
at what point did you "ask" God for HIS wil for you and have him tell you to go buy a gun? did you do this ,or did you just go get one becaseu YOU WANT . -interesting isn't it

one time i had one person say they had done so ,but later it turned out to be a lack of honesty in thier claim.
you see i can't find any one speaking of a gun as a tool for the purpose of hunting food to feed thier family . i have no doubt such a thing would be acceptable.
but in the distinctly american urban mindset ,you mostly all speak of guns as a weapon of offense and defense ,not a tool for a specific purpose of providence .
and in this setting it is simply "not "christlike to own a gun .especially not when the purpose and motivation for doing so is pride and fear . as opposed to love and trust.

 

[Edmond Smith]

so there is a flawed logic in desiring to be like the lord JEsus ?odd statement .

at what point did he arm himself with carnal weapons for Any purpose? ..oh never .
at what point are we to act upon carnal logic ?
we are to obey the lord Jesus in FAith . not do our own will .

so i ask the question i so often ask ,the one you ignored .
at what point did you "ask" God for HIS wil for you and have him tell you to go buy a gun? did you do this ,or did you just go get one becaseu YOU WANT . -interesting isn't it

one time i had one person say they had done so ,but later it turned out to be a lack of honesty in thier claim.
you see i can't find any one speaking of a gun as a tool for the purpose of hunting food to feed thier family . i have no doubt such a thing would be acceptable.
but in the distinctly american urban mindset ,you mostly all speak of guns as a weapon of offense and defense ,not a tool for a specific purpose of providence .
and in this setting it is simply "not "christlike to own a gun .especially not when the purpose and motivation for doing so is pride and fear . as opposed to love and trust.

Owning a gun is not sinful. It's a gun. A piece of hardware that flings projectiles at a high rate of velocity at something or someone.
Saying owning a gun is sinful, because Christ didn't arm himself. Is like saying it's a sin to buy a car, because Christ didn't buy one nor did he own a donkey (keeping within the times he lived).
Killing someone...is a sin, Stealing from someone...is a sin, whether you do this with a gun or a box opener, doesn't matter. It is the act that you will be judged by. Not that which you did the act with. It is inanimate.
To be Christ like, means to pray, study God's word, obey God and spread the gospel. As He did.

 

[supersoldier71]

so there is a flawed logic in desiring to be like the lord JEsus ?odd statement .

at what point did he arm himself with carnal weapons for Any purpose? ..oh never .
at what point are we to act upon carnal logic ?
we are to obey the lord Jesus in FAith . not do our own will .

so i ask the question i so often ask ,the one you ignored .
at what point did you "ask" God for HIS wil for you and have him tell you to go buy a gun? did you do this ,or did you just go get one becaseu YOU WANT . -interesting isn't it

one time i had one person say they had done so ,but later it turned out to be a lack of honesty in thier claim.
you see i can't find any one speaking of a gun as a tool for the purpose of hunting food to feed thier family . i have no doubt such a thing would be acceptable.
but in the distinctly american urban mindset ,you mostly all speak of guns as a weapon of offense and defense ,not a tool for a specific purpose of providence .
and in this setting it is simply "not "christlike to own a gun .especially not when the purpose and motivation for doing so is pride and fear . as opposed to love and trust.

God Himself has no need to arm Himself, however, He instructed His disciples (us, in a manner of speaking) to do so.

Your argument is circular purposefully obtuse, and without a doubt, the most intellectually dishonest argument I've ever seen, anywhere, on the internet.

I don't ask God for permission to buy a hammer or to swing the hammer when I have a nail that needs to be driven. I don't ask God to go to the grocery store for me, nor to prepare the meal.

Let me ask you this: did YOU ask God's guidance to prepare dinner tonight? Or did you thank Him that you've got food to eat in a comfortable place to eat it?

This will be my last reply because you are not, in any way willing to accept that there are those who will see the position differently. You are unwilling to accept that our brothers and sisters in Christ may be differently guided by their renewed consciences, and more than that, you have condescended to a place where you have called gun owners and Americans un-Christian, which is insulting and offensive and will be reported.

I am beginning to think that perhaps it is you who has difficulty with the concept of Christ's likeness.

Good night.

 

[Aldebaran]

i don't care why they are talking about it .. because i don't care if they take folks guns away ..i don't love guns . so it doesn't bother me . so the analogy works just fine

So if it doesn't affect you, then you don't care how it affects others? To think your flawed analogy works just fine on that basis is quite arrogant.

 

[Alithis]

God Himself has no need to arm Himself, however, He instructed His disciples (us, in a manner of speaking) to do so.

Your argument is circular purposefully obtuse, and without a doubt, the most intellectually dishonest argument I've ever seen, anywhere, on the internet.

I don't ask God for permission to buy a hammer or to swing the hammer when I have a nail that needs to be driven. I don't ask God to go to the grocery store for me, nor to prepare the meal.

Let me ask you this: did YOU ask God's guidance to prepare dinner tonight? Or did you thank Him that you've got food to eat in a comfortable place to eat it?

This will be my last reply because you are not, in any way willing to accept that there are those who will see the position differently. You are unwilling to accept that our brothers and sisters in Christ may be differently guided by their renewed consciences, and more than that, you have condescended to a place where you have called gun owners and Americans un-Christian, which is insulting and offensive and will be reported.

I am beginning to think that perhaps it is you who has difficulty with the concept of Christ's likeness.

Good night.

did you not note that i made clear distinction between the reasons behind owning a gun .., one being a tool with which to procure food and the other being a weapon of offence or defense . -to purchase one for the latter without consulting the lords will is acting out of either pride (pride in ones own ability ) or fear . but not Faith .
"you say we will go here and do this or that ,, rather you should say ..if it is Gods will "- James PP

your trying to offend me and twist my words in order to silence an opinion you do not like .but i have asked "you" .. did YOU consult the lords will for your life when you purchased a gun ? it requires a yes or no answer . and it seems clear your answer is "NO" .

when you own a gun with intent to defend yourself with it ,,which may entail killing another human being .. are you being Christlike ? of course not .Christ had both the power and the right to slay all his oppressors and wrong doers . but he chose instead to lay down his life .
he showed what he is like . thus to be like him does not entail owning a weapon for the purpose of killing other people . God knows the hearts motive in every person .

 

[Alithis]

Owning a gun is not sinful. It's a gun. A piece of hardware that flings projectiles at a high rate of velocity at something or someone.
Saying owning a gun is sinful, because Christ didn't arm himself. Is like saying it's a sin to buy a car, because Christ didn't buy one nor did he own a donkey (keeping within the times he lived).
Killing someone...is a sin, Stealing from someone...is a sin, whether you do this with a gun or a box opener, doesn't matter. It is the act that you will be judged by. Not that which you did the act with. It is inanimate.
To be Christ like, means to pray, study God's word, obey God and spread the gospel. As He did.

interesting - why do those who protect their human carnal worldly rights ,so often turn the topic to sin? i have never said it is a sin .
i have simply pointed out that those who so passionately defend their gun, display that they have an overt love for an item and are often not wiling to acknowledge Gods will on the matter in their own life .

they say ahh but i will do what i will
where as Jesus says .. father , not MY will but YOURS be done .. this is all about the heart .

 

[Alithis]

So if it doesn't affect you, then you don't care how it affects others? To think your flawed analogy works just fine on that basis is quite arrogant.

haha, throw insults at me because that will suddenly make everything you do ok ... hmmm .dont think so

 

[supersoldier71]

haha, throw insults at me because that will suddenly make everything you do ok ... hmmm .dont think so

Insulting? You led off the inning with those, friend, when you attempted to foist the silliest,most banal excuse for an explanation of sinful behavior ever.

Sinful =/= Christlike.

Done.

Not sinful = not forbidden.

Done.

Christ like doesn't mean that I can do all that He can. I cannot call down Legions of Angels, nor am I tasked with redeeming the whole world, so you may be able to see how your example fails.

Did you ever wonder why Christ instructed His chosen to arm themselves? No? Thought not, because that passage would conflict with your preconceptions and biases and might cause you to actually understand another Christian's point of view.

Let me be as clear as possible, with the complete understanding that you will NOT understand because you're all about the argument, brother: YOUR. ARGUMENT. FAILS.

COMPLETELY.

You have failed at every level to present a thoughtful rebuttal. You have failed at every opportunity to present a logical argument that does not circle in on itself and collapse under the weight of its own arrogance, ignorance and thoughtlessness.

And yet, after all of this, you know what? I'm the silly fool who keeps rising to the bait and responding to you. Yes. I am an idiot because I know---KNOW KNOW KNOW--that you are clearly not interested in edifying the members of the body of Christ, only arrogantly and snidely attacking using your own incredibly narrow, completely illogical and utterly indefensible substitutes for facts or data.

I'm done. I shall kick the dust off my feet and move on because this life is WAY too short to get wrapped around the axle about what YOU think.

About anything.

Ever.

'Bye.

 

[Aldebaran]

haha, throw insults at me because that will suddenly make everything you do ok ... hmmm .dont think so

Telling you that it's arrogant to assume it's ok to use the bible to restrict ownership of something on the basis of it being sinful to own something makes you feel insulted? I'm pretty sure that there are plenty of other ultra-charismatics that could take a look at your life and find something about it they can find sinful as well. There are plenty of people who can find fault with just about anything another person does, says, owns, or believes. You're not the only one like that. So take that into consideration when you decide to point to an object and then start claiming that a person simply can't be within the Lord's will if they own it.

Ok, now you can start telling me how you're being misunderstood some more.

 

[Alithis]

Insulting? You led off the inning with those, friend, when you attempted to foist the silliest,most banal excuse for an explanation of sinful behavior ever.

Sinful =/= Christlike.

Done.

Not sinful = not forbidden.

Done.

Christ like doesn't mean that I can do all that He can. I cannot call down Legions of Angels, nor am I tasked with redeeming the whole world, so you may be able to see how your example fails.

Did you ever wonder why Christ instructed His chosen to arm themselves? No? Thought not, because that passage would conflict with your preconceptions and biases and might cause you to actually understand another Christian's point of view.

Let me be as clear as possible, with the complete understanding that you will NOT understand because you're all about the argument, brother: YOUR. ARGUMENT. FAILS.

COMPLETELY.

You have failed at every level to present a thoughtful rebuttal. You have failed at every opportunity to present a logical argument that does not circle in on itself and collapse under the weight of its own arrogance, ignorance and thoughtlessness.

And yet, after all of this, you know what? I'm the silly fool who keeps rising to the bait and responding to you. Yes. I am an idiot because I know---KNOW KNOW KNOW--that you are clearly not interested in edifying the members of the body of Christ, only arrogantly and snidely attacking using your own incredibly narrow, completely illogical and utterly indefensible substitutes for facts or data.

I'm done. I shall kick the dust off my feet and move on because this life is WAY too short to get wrapped around the axle about what YOU think.

About anything.

Ever.

'Bye.

you wil have to do a lot of dust kicking when your bathing in it

 

[Alithis]

Telling you that it's arrogant to assume it's ok to use the bible to restrict ownership of something on the basis of it being sinful to own something makes you feel insulted? I'm pretty sure that there are plenty of other ultra-charismatics that could take a look at your life and find something about it they can find sinful as well. There are plenty of people who can find fault with just about anything another person does, says, owns, or believes. You're not the only one like that. So take that into consideration when you decide to point to an object and then start claiming that a person simply can't be within the Lord's will if they own it.

Ok, now you can start telling me how you're being misunderstood some more.

again? i never said it was sinful ..its not the issue . the thread topic is "is it chrsitian "

my reply has and always be .. it depend "why" you purchased a gun and if you did so becaseu the lord told you to or if you did so becaseu it was just your idea .
i notice over and over on these topics people seem to utterly leave out the will of God on the matter (being his wil for each individual ) as if his wil has no bearing on the topic .

did you(being any one ) buy a gun to protect yourself because in pride one thinks they can out wit the will of god should it be his will for them to die by the sword or go into captivity (-its a reference to the book of revelations) So many people claim to have a faith in God ,but then act in a manner which displays they don't trust him to be the orchestrator of thier lives .the desire to be the master of thier own destiny ..its a contradiction.

 

[Aldebaran]

again? i never said it was sinful ..its not the issue . the thread topic is "is it chrsitian "

my reply has and always be .. it depend "why" you purchased a gun and if you did so becaseu the lord told you to or if you did so becaseu it was just your idea .
i notice over and over on these topics people seem to utterly leave out the will of God on the matter (being his wil for each individual ) as if his wil has no bearing on the topic .

did you(being any one ) buy a gun to protect yourself because in pride one thinks they can out wit the will of god should it be his will for them to die by the sword or go into captivity (-its a reference to the book of revelations) So many people claim to have a faith in God ,but then act in a manner which displays they don't trust him to be the orchestrator of thier lives .the desire to be the master of thier own destiny ..its a contradiction.

I don't think any of us knows exactly what the will of God for our life is. If we did, then we'd be able to predict the future, knowing what His will is for us. Even though God is with us, He still expects us to be practical. He doesn't ask us to sit around and pray that everything be done for us. Some things are our own responsibility. There are many examples of this in the bible. The book of Nehemiah is a perfect example of God's servant being very practical. God did the leading, but Nehemiah also played a practical role.

As for the idea of gun ownership being "Christian" or not--you're assuming that it has to be a Christian thing or....what? A satanic thing? An anti-christian thing? What are the alternatives? If it's not Christian, then it's sinful. I don't know how else you could look at it.

 

[Alithis]

I don't think any of us knows exactly what the will of God for our life is. If we did, then we'd be able to predict the future, knowing what His will is for us. Even though God is with us, He still expects us to be practical. He doesn't ask us to sit around and pray that everything be done for us. Some things are our own responsibility. There are many examples of this in the bible. The book of Nehemiah is a perfect example of God's servant being very practical. God did the leading, but Nehemiah also played a practical role.

As for the idea of gun ownership being "Christian" or not--you're assuming that it has to be a Christian thing or....what? A satanic thing? An anti-christian thing? What are the alternatives? If it's not Christian, then it's sinful. I don't know how else you could look at it.

again you leave out that i bought "motive " into the equation . put it this way -is it christian to fear man and doubt God's ability protect us as we do his wlil ? and we do know his will it is very clear and precise .The will of God for every believer is not difficult to discover, it is summed up in the words "Gospel and GO.

 

[Aldebaran]

again you leave out that i bought "motive " into the equation . put it this way -is it christian to fear man and doubt God's ability protect us as we do his wlil ? and we do know his will it is very clear and precise .The will of God for every believer is not difficult to discover, it is summed up in the words "Gospel and GO.

Alright, let's go back to your orignal question as posed by the title of the thread. "Is it Christian to own guns?" I can only ask you in response as to how it is Christian to own or not own something. Is it Christian to own a motorcycle? Is it Christian to have money? Is it Christian to have a job? I've met people on this site who would say "No" to each one of those. So to answer your original question, I say it is neither Christian or not Christian to own or not own any object.

 

[Alithis]

Alright, let's go back to your original question as posed by the title of the thread. "Is it Christian to own guns?" I can only ask you in response as to how it is Christian to own or not own something. Is it Christian to own a motorcycle? Is it Christian to have money? Is it Christian to have a job? I've met people on this site who would say "No" to each one of those. So to answer your original question, I say it is neither Christian or not Christian to own or not own any object.

nice try ..but you left out motive again ... if you bought the object with motive to use it to protect your life by taking someone else's life if that was what is required to protect self ..., then with that motive ,it is rather obviously not christian to own it .. -and god looks on the heart . he weighs the motive thereof