Mormons Keep Affiliation With Boy Scouts Despite Decision Allowing Gay Leaders

Albion said:

Right. That's the age-old issue. It's not unlike the problem faced by people when considering their church affiliation. The local unit (congregation) may be fine, but the national organization is promoting something considered morally wrong. Which way does the conscientious person go? Does he say that he doesn't share the national's views and that's all there is to that? Or, does membership--with dues paying, the literature put out by the national, the fact that the public inevitably assumes that the local unit is in step with the national organization, etc.--recommend a break?

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But the BSA is not promoting anything. They aren't encouraging the scouts to get married at all.

awitch said:

But the BSA is not promoting anything. They aren't encouraging the scouts to get married at all.

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Encouraging the scouts to get married???????

No, the issue is the organization's acceptance of homosexual leaders.

Albion said:

Encouraging the scouts to get married???????

No, the issue is the organization's acceptance of homosexual leaders.

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What was the problem with gay scouts?

awitch said:

But the BSA is not promoting anything. They aren't encouraging the scouts to get married at all.

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The purpose of Scouts is to create upright young me (insert Scout Oath here). With them re-interrupting what that means (like morally straight), it's an issue.

awitch said:

But the BSA is not promoting anything.

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That's what you feel is the case. Those who are uneasy about this decision feel differently and they are the ones we are inquiring about on this thread.

They aren't encouraging the scouts to get married at all.

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What's this "getting married" thing you keep talking about? It's not the issue.

Rocmonkey said:

Uhh, I believe the Boy Scouts of America was around a long time before the Mormon Church got involved with them. And, if the church could have started their own club they would have.

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The church sponsors about 50% of the currently active BSA troops. That's a lot of money from church coffers into the BSA's budget. If the church pulls out, the BSA is cooked.

As it is, the BSA deliberately took the vote when they did because they knew that enough of the church leadership would be away from SLC to prevent any sort of prompt response. If the church knew in advance what was about to happen, then it'd have had time to get an alternative in place.

Jane_Doe said:

Rocmonkey, does your church sponsor a BSA troop, or have in the past? I know nationally, Baptists churches charter 3,532 scout troops (90k boys).

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Yes, they did- First Southern Baptist, St. George, Utah. We moved to Colorado in 2013 and haven't found a home church yet (some medical issues have gotten worse for me). But knowing the SBA church I went to they dropped all connections once that ruling came down. It is a sad day in America when everything we (as a nation) once held so dear is torn down or removed. America, imho, is about to fall hard. We are not big enough to shake our fists in God's face and get away with it. No nation ever has, none ever will. There is a God in Heaven and He is watching and videotaping 'everything' we say, do and think both individually and collectively as a nation. God will hold (imo) the Christians responsible for not doing anything to stop this madness and the lost guilty for doing it. We will all sink or swim together... America is clearly sinking.

Albion said:

Think about what you're asking. Surely you don't think that a church's youth should be encouraged to participate in (or be led into membership by their church) any association whose leaders and principles go counter to the important moral values that are held by that church.

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This is the answer to your question about why the LDS faith isn't partnering with any of the existing rivals.

So many mainline denominations regard us as being a "cult" that they don't want anything to do with us. Because of this, the odds of a successful partnership on a new venture are slim to none.

Ironhold said:

This is the answer to your question about why the LDS faith isn't partnering with any of the existing rivals.

So many mainline denominations regard us as being a "cult" that they don't want anything to do with us. Because of this, the odds of a successful partnership on a new venture are slim to none.

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I took account of that. I sympathized with you on that matter.

However, to stay with the BSA does not logically follow from the fact, if true, that none of the competing organizations treat the LDS right.

If that's the case, the second-best solution--if example, morals, and conscience, etc. really are important to the church--would be to form your own. And this would not be all that difficult, despite the suggestion that was made to the contrary.

Ironhold said:

The church sponsors about 50% of the currently active BSA troops. That's a lot of money from church coffers into the BSA's budget. If the church pulls out, the BSA is cooked.

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So just think what a statement for traditional morality COULD be made by your church. But yet, it's not being made. It's not the case that doing the right thing is called for only if it's convenient.

Albion said:

That's what you feel is the case. Those who are uneasy about this decision feel differently and they are the ones we are inquiring about on this thread.

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Those LDS members think that homosexual leaders would actively encouraging scouts to participate in homosexual sex? Is that what they think promotion is?

What's this "getting married" thing you keep talking about? It's not the issue.

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Jane_Doe had a post regarding joining a group that promotes healthy marriages.

awitch said:

Those LDS members think that homosexual leaders would actively encouraging scouts to participate in homosexual sex? Is that what they think promotion is?

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It's not only that, although that is probably a consideration.

Albion said:

It's not only that, although that is probably a consideration.

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So they believe the false narrative that homosexuals actively recruit children because they are all pedophiles?

awitch said:

So they believe the false narrative that homosexuals actively recruit children because they are all pedophiles?

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You can ask me a question if you wish. This, however, is a proclamation masquerading as an inquiry.

Albion said:

You can ask me a question if you wish. This, however, is a proclamation masquerading as an inquiry.

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That's OK, I think you've already answered the question.

awitch said:

That's OK, I think you've already answered the question.

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Even if that were true, I'm not a spokesman for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; and there are Mormons here whom you could ask.

Albion said:

So just think what a statement for traditional morality COULD be made by your church. But yet, it's not being made. It's not the case that doing the right thing is called for only if it's convenient.

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Let me describe what the creation of a new solo-Mormon program would require--
1) Curriculum development for an international audience of ~1 million young men
2) Testing/evaluation of such curriculum
3) Translating material into international languages.
4) Creating/printing material for said 1 million young men.
5) Organizing and training staff on the new program
6) Actually implanting the program.

This is a *major* undertaking, which is not going to happen in a few weeks. As I said, I do think it will happen in the relatively near future, but for sure not August 2015.

awitch said:

Jane_Doe had a post regarding joining a group that promotes healthy marriages.

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The Scouting program is supposed to promote men who--

Scout Oath (or Promise)
On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

Scout Law
A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly,
courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty,
brave, clean, and reverent.

BSA isn't really doing that anymore.... hence the questions about leaving.

Jane_Doe said:

Let me describe what the creation of a new solo-Mormon program would require--
1) Curriculum development for an international audience of ~1 million young men
2) Testing/evaluation of such curriculum
3) Translating material into international languages.
4) Creating/printing material for said 1 million young men.
5) Organizing and training staff on the new program
6) Actually implanting the program.

This is a *major* undertaking, which is not going to happen in a few weeks. As I said, I do think it will happen in the relatively near future, but for sure not August 2015.

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Few weeks. OK. I don't think that a "few weeks" would be considered a long time by any reasonable person. But that wasn't the information given earlier. Then, it was said that "maybe some time in the future...." (my words. I'm not actually quoting anyone there).

And, much of the above 6 points I really think exaggerates the problems. Why a church that talks about the importance of staying true to correct belief and practice would not appreciate that it would take relatively little to get the organization up and going in the USA and then to fill in some of the other needs in due course wouldn't do it seems unconvincing to me--particularly when other churches with much smaller treasuries have long since done what you're saying is just too much for the church that has far more on the line and much more in the way of resources.

Jane_Doe said:

The Scouting program is supposed to promote men who--

Scout Oath (or Promise)
On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

Scout Law
A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly,
courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty,
brave, clean, and reverent.

BSA isn't really doing that anymore.... hence the questions about leaving.

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'Anymore' I guess is my last hang up. It's as if there were no other concerns about any other sins prior to this one issue and the gay issue alone is the only reason to consider abandoning the organization.