It seems to me that you are playing a word game. Because "to have a real being" and "to come into existence" certainly can be seen as being the same thing. Maybe you just don't want to admit that.
btw, haven't you noticed that your definition of "occur" which is "to come into existence" really is the same as "existing"?
So, how are they different? I don't see it at all.
If something comes into existence (it occurs), it exists.
faith precedes regeneration logically. But they occur at the same time, per the grammar of 1 Jn 5:1.
Faith does not precede regeneration logically. If anything it is the other way around as any good systematic theology will testify.
But be that as it may:
Originally you said that faith precedes regeneration. You have also said that they happen at the same time. You say that 1 John 5:1 proves both of those points unambiguously.
This is the verse that you say clearly tells us that they happen at exactly the same time or (depending on which post of yours we look at) that faith precedes regeneration.
"
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the
child born of Him."
1 John 5:1
Logically the verse does not teach what you say that it does.
Logically the verse does teach that one who possesses faith has also been regenerated. No problem there. That has always been the Reformed position.
But it does not follow logically that one who has been regenerated also has faith.
You obviously believe that to be the case. But the verse does not teach that as you say that it does.
Reformed theologians (and I), on the other hand, have no problem with the idea that regeneration precedes faith. In fact there are many reasons to believe that it does.
It may or may not be true that one can be regenerated for a period of time before they exercise faith.
Paul may have kicked against the goads for quite a period of time before he was compelled to get off the fence about Christ through Christ's dramatic intervention. That mirrors my own conversion experience as well.
We have no idea how long it was before Lydia heard and responded to the gospel. We are not told. We are only told that the Lord opened her heart so that she could believe.
But those points are
not what we have been talking about here. We have been talking about whether 1 John 5:1 teaches that faith precedes regeneration or, alternately, whether it teaches that they happen at exactly the same time.
It does not logically follow that either of those two things is necessarily the case - as you say it is.
It seems to me that you are banking on the fact that some here do not have a good grasp concerning the discipline of logic.
Ultimately of course, people will have to decide for themselves if this verse teaches clearly that faith and regeneration happen at the same time or that faith precedes regeneration.
The logical answer to that question is always going to be that the verse does not prove that. That will be the logical answer no matter how you play with words.
Whether people can see the logic or not is beside the point.
This thread has grown tiresome.
"expos4ever" was right about one thing for sure. No one here is likely to give an inch.
Some
pretend that they do not understand what I have been saying.
Some are so entrenched against anything that they think might give a leg up to the dreaded Calvinism that they will do anything rather than even give a nod to that side.
And at least one prominent participant isn't equipped to follow the logic and or the study of the scriptures involved in good systematic theology.
For what ever reason -- you are all on your own now. I'm moving on.
May God bless you all.