This should end the discussion about easy grace and OSAS!

ZacharyB

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Jude 3-4
3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation,
I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for
the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this
condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness
and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

The NKJV calls these people “apostates” (3 times in section headings).

“This verse (4) is very similar to a passage written by Peter in his second letter (2 Peter 2:1-3).
These false teachers were teaching that it didn’t matter whether a person sinned or not,
because no matter how much one sinned, God’s grace was sufficient to cleanse him;
therefore, they said, a Christian could do whatever he pleased (see Rom 6:1-2, 2 Peter 3:16).
By their own evil behavior, these false teachers were denying Christ. Men deny Christ
not only by what they say, but also by what they do (Titus 1:16).”
(The Applied New Testament Commentary -- Thomas Hale, 1996, ChariotVictor Publishing)

2 Peter 2:1-3
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will
be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies,
even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom
the way of truth will be blasphemed.
3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time
their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.

Yes, I agree, easy grace and OSAS certainly are destructive heresies!
And they must be incredibly destructive indeed (worse than sins) …
… because I don’t see above where any repentance is even possible.
 

sdowney717

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Matthew 7:15
[ You Will Know Them by Their Fruits ] “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

Wolves are not sheep, sheep do not turn into wolves, nor wolves into sheep.
See your teaching that sheep turn into wolves, but from the beginning of Jesus's teaching, He calls them false prophets who are wolves in sheep clothing, Jesus does not call them sheep at all, but you do..
 
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nobdysfool

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Flailing at windmills, like Don Quixote. Strawman after strawman, accusations without substance, and without merit. Imagining himself to be wise, he only proves that he doesn't know what he's thinking to accuse others of. it's a losing battle, because it is not based on reality.

this will not end the discussion.
 
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ToBeLoved

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"For in the last days false prophets and corrupters shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall be turned into hate; (Comp. Mat. 24:11, 12) "--The Lord's Teaching through the Twelve Apostles to the Gentiles (Didache)
Where did you get that scripture from? There is NO SHEEP that turn into wolves.

Matthew 24:7-12
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you:and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold


You should not be incorrectly quoting scripture. That is shameful.
 
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sdowney717

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"For in the last days false prophets and corrupters shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall be turned into hate; (Comp. Mat. 24:11, 12) "--The Lord's Teaching through the Twelve Apostles to the Gentiles (Didache)

The designation of humans as animals in Scripture is not literal, but a metaphor for their heart conditions, behaviors and deeds. Like how Herod was called a fox because of his character. Therefore sheep can turned into wolves, just like like love can be turned into hate, just like a righteous person can change into an unrighteous person, and in reverse. The people who say sheep cannot turn into wolves blatantly deny the truth of what the Apostles taught. And they deny that it is metaphorical language.

Was rejected as uninspired, so it is not scripture. Comparing that particular verse you quoted to Scriptures shows it easily failed to fit into the truth so was obviously a fraud.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didache

Another odd and strange verse in there says this

'But he shall not remain more than one day; or two days, if there's a need. But if he remains three days, he is a false prophet. '
So what it says if an apostle stays more than 3 days in one place he is a false apostle.

The doctrines of men
Chapter 11. Concerning Teachers, Apostles, and Prophets. Whosoever, therefore, comes and teaches you all these things that have been said before, receive him. But if the teacher himself turns and teaches another doctrine to the destruction of this, hear him not. But if he teaches so as to increase righteousness and the knowledge of the Lord, receive him as the Lord. But concerning the apostles and prophets, act according to the decree of the Gospel. Let every apostle who comes to you be received as the Lord. But he shall not remain more than one day; or two days, if there's a need. But if he remains three days, he is a false prophet. And when the apostle goes away, let him take nothing but bread until he lodges. If he asks for money, he is a false prophet. And every prophet who speaks in the Spirit you shall neither try nor judge; for every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven. But not every one who speaks in the Spirit is a prophet; but only if he holds the ways of the Lord. Therefore from their ways shall the false prophet and the prophet be known. And every prophet who orders a meal in the Spirit does not eat it, unless he is indeed a false prophet. And every prophet who teaches the truth, but does not do what he teaches, is a false prophet. And every prophet, proved true, working unto the mystery of the Church in the world, yet not teaching others to do what he himself does, shall not be judged among you, for with God he has his judgment; for so did also the ancient prophets. But whoever says in the Spirit, Give me money, or something else, you shall not listen to him. But if he tells you to give for others' sake who are in need, let no one judge him.
 
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sdowney717

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I couldn't care less what the Apostates judge as not Scripture. The physical man receives not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, for they are spiritually discerned.

Who are those apostates who rejected this so long ago that you mention?
 
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ToBeLoved

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"[ You Will Know Them by Their Fruits ] “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.'

EXACTLY! You will know them by their FRUITS/DEEDS, not their predestination. Sheep and wolf is metaphor referring to what character a man is.
No it's not.

It's someone who is not a believer, PRETENDING that they are a believer to get the confidence of believers.

How quick you are to spew out non-scripture and twist the truth at every turn.

Maybe study more, write less.
 
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ToBeLoved

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What's that supposed to mean?

It seems to me to be a rather ignorant and disjointed statement.
Be careful if he starts to quote the Bible. He is taking it from somewhere else, not the Bible.

Double-check every verse that spews out of his mouth.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Jude 3-4
3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation,
I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for
the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this
condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness
and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ
.


The NKJV calls these people “apostates” (3 times in section headings).
Except "section headings" aren't Scripture, nor are they inspired. They are comments of men trying to understand Scripture. Second, Jude is not describing apostates, but unbelievers. There is nothing in Jude to suggest they fell from the faith.

“This verse (4) is very similar to a passage written by Peter in his second letter (2 Peter 2:1-3).
These false teachers were teaching that it didn’t matter whether a person sinned or not,
because no matter how much one sinned, God’s grace was sufficient to cleanse him;
therefore, they said, a Christian could do whatever he pleased (see Rom 6:1-2, 2 Peter 3:16).
By their own evil behavior, these false teachers were denying Christ. Men deny Christ
not only by what they say, but also by what they do (Titus 1:16).”
(The Applied New Testament Commentary -- Thomas Hale, 1996, ChariotVictor Publishing)

2 Peter 2:1-3
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will
be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies,
even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom
the way of truth will be blasphemed.
3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time
their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.
Again, this is about unbelievers, not apostates.
 
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klutedavid

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Hello Zachary.

You quoted the following passage.
Jude 3-4
3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation,
I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for
the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this
condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness
and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

This passage specifically states, that these folk deny our Lord Jesus Christ.

These folk are not believers in Jesus Christ and this is the important point.

Then you said.
Yes, I agree, easy grace and OSAS certainly are destructive heresies!
In fact, the idea of an easy Grace or even OSAS itself, are not promoted by people
who do not believe in Jesus Christ. That would be an unsound application of the
passage from Jude.
 
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nobdysfool

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I couldn't care less what the Apostates judge as not Scripture. The physical man receives not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, for they are spiritually discerned.

You do not have the authority or right to decide for yourself or anyone else what apocryphal writings should be considered to be Scripture, and the veiled reference to us as apostates is identified and duly noted.
 
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ToBeLoved

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I couldn't care less what the Apostates judge as not Scripture. The physical man receives not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, for they are spiritually discerned.
That's not even the scripture. Nice how you write your own version. NOT.
 
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ZacharyB

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Jude is not describing apostates, but unbelievers.
There is nothing in Jude to suggest they fell from the faith.
Again, this is about unbelievers, not apostates.
This is for others, that they might not be led astray by people like you ...

JUDE
4 ... ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness
and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this,
that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt,
afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain,
but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains
under darkness for the judgment of the great day;


v4 - The Jude apostates disregarded God's grace and continued sinning.
v4 - The Jude apostates denied what Jesus came for: to make it possible to stop sinning.
The following verses draw the parallel of believers turning into apostates!
v5 - The Jude apostates were like those who refused to acknowledge that
God delivered them out of Egypt.
v6 - The Jude apostates were like the believing angels who rebelled and followed Satan.

Like many other disheartening, discouraging, and negative passages in the NT,
this section is not super-obvious in its' warning about the possibility of loss of salvation.
As always, spiritual discernment (and honesty) is required to understand Scripture!
 
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ToBeLoved

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This is for others, that they might not be led astray by people like you ...

JUDE
4 ... ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness
and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this,
that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt,
afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain,
but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains
under darkness for the judgment of the great day;


v4 - These apostates disregarded God's grace and continued sinning.
v4 - These apostates denied what Jesus came for: to make it possible to stop sinning.
v5 - These apostates were like those who refused to acknowledge that
God delivered them out of Egypt.
v6 - These apostates were like the believing angels who rebelled and followed Satan.

Like most of the other disheartening, discouraging, and negative passages in the NT,
this section is not super obvious in its' warning about the possibility of loss of salvation.
As always, spiritual discernment (and honesty) is required to understand Scripture!
This scripture IS NOT talking about salvation through the blood of Jesus Christ. Next.
 
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