The ONE LAW Movement

Truthfrees

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 20, 2015
13,793
2,913
✟277,188.00
Faith
Word of Faith
truthfrees,
1. The letter of the law is now the Spirit of the law. The glory of the old covenant was abolished and this is why Paul said Moses wore the veil over his face because the children of Israel could not stand to seeing the passing away of the glory of the law.

2. Paul said the old covenant was passing away in Hebrews 8:13 and this is why the old covenant had to be replaced by the new covenant.

3. The sacrifices have been done away with because Christ was the real sacrifice that replaced all the shadows and types and those ceremonial sacrifices were done away including divers washings etc. Colossians 2:14-15 and Hebrews 9:9-10.

4. The civil law is now for the disobedient according to Timothy 1 and if being a christian is who we are in Christ and being empowered by the Holy Spirit and his finished work then we should not be subdued by the law for we already keep it as a whole.

5. The moral law according to the Mosaic ethic was done away with because of the weakness of the commandment and the specific punishment under the blessing and cursing system of the Mosaic law. Romans 7 talks about the Law was holy and good but was taken advantage of by the law of sin and death and made them live to the frailty of man. This was Paul talking of life under the Mosaic law for in Romans 8 he said the law of the Spirit has done away with the law of sin and death that made them live to the frailty of man.

6. The new covenant was actually made with Israel and not the church as such.
Matthew 26:28: For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Mark uses the same term, "the new testament". Luke uses the same term. Though the context maybe slightly different there is no doubt that the new covenant came in at Calvary. The new birth explained to Nicodemus was prophetic. Though Christ forgave sins then all was not completely official until Calvary and the blood was applied. The jews were saved by water the first time as shown by the Red Sea deliverance and the second time they would be delivered by the Spirit. This happened in the early church which was mostly jewish believers and according to the church age. So although the new covenant was offered to the jews officially and mostly about their promises of the kingdom the new testament can be seen as the new covenant and why the law had to be set aside.

7. The grafting in of the gentiles is not into Israel because the body of Christ is what we are baptized into. The jews today have to be grafted back in again. This does not effect them as being the natural branches anymore than gentiles being the branches. I say this because there is no replacement theology in any respect. Paul used this metaphor to show that the gospel of the oracles of God was originally with the jews.
Today, there is no jew or gentile in the church, no male or female etc.

8. As far as the jews calling as head of the nations and the law being put into their hearts will not happen until the millennial kingdom.

9. The Mosaic law was one unit and was only till the seed should come which was Christ and didn't really manifest until the cross.

10. I still believe that a jew can be a jew culturally. There is nothing wrong with dietary laws as long as one doesn't look to salvation for it. Even a gentile could abstain from pork because it is smart to do so to keep one healthy. However, since the old covenant was basically types and shadows and the reality has come then how does one reconcile to living the letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law.
The new covenant was built on better promises. Hebrews 8:6-7. But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. How does one reconcile this and the others that show the old covenant passed away. According to this scripture there cannot be two covenants.

11. The big disagreement seems to be whether or not the whole covenant was done away with or just parts of it. Paul said in Romans people under the age of conscience would be judged by that law and the jews under the law of Moses will be judged by it and of course Christians will be judged according to their law under grace.
Matthew 5:17 says that Christ came to fulfill the law of Moses and this did happen. He did not destroy it because the abolishment was because it had reached its goal Romans 10:4. Verse 18 says till heaven and earth pass away one jot or one tittle shall not pass from the law. This was speaking of the law of Moses but it didn't stop there. The last phrase till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall not pass away is how full proof God's word was and how it would surely come to pass without doubt. Till all be fulfilled was talking about Jesus ministry as the Messiah in reference to the Kingdom of Heaven which he offered the jews and they rejected him.

Why is the jew more than upset about the law being done away with at Calvary when we have a covenant built on better promises? I ask this sincerely? Is it because it threatens their identification as a jew or make them feel inferior to the church or because they have the old mindset of proselyting gentiles? Does it make bad light on their history as a failed people? I don't believe it is a bad thing for it was the best God gave them at that time. God gave people in the ante diluvian age but we have more knowledge of revelation since then. Do you think they would have been offended because of the written law had taken over their law of conscience? I don't think the jews have to worry about an identification problem if they are being grafted back in to God. They will have their place again. No need to feel inferior of the church for they are to be a part of the church just like the early church of jews and gentiles when Peter finally got the vision.
Final question; how does a jew of today live the mosaic law? What is the whole essence of living the law? Just curious. Jerry kelso
:wave: I used to believe this way too until I saw what Yeshua said about the law in Matthew 5:17-19.

What anyone says in scripture can only be properly interpreted if it AGREES with YHWH's and Yeshua's words. AND Yeshua said he only speaks YHWH's words.

IOW, Paul's words need to be interpreted IN LINE WITH Yeshua's words, not against.

IF an interpretation disagrees with Yeshua's words, the interpretation is wrong.

Prove from the RED words that the law has changed or passed away.

You will only find Yeshua AFFIRMING the law. (Matthew 23:23, Luke 11:42, Matthew 5:17-19)

Which proves Paul is being misinterpreted, because if YHWH truly sent him (which HE did) he'd have to agree with Yeshua.


YESHUA'S WORDS

"For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak." - John 12:49

"Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner." - John 5:19

"Then Jesus said to them, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things." - John 8:28

"
Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:17-19

"You pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone." - Matthew 23:23, Luke 11:42
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,524
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
My mother and grandmother were Christians. I have a strong matrilineal line going back, and the family has functioned much like crypto Jews with our little Jewish habits--I relate to the marranos.
That is just like the family of one of my sons-in-law. Forced "conversion" back in the 1500s, then moved to the New World where they were cryptos. He was about about halfway thru a Sephardic conversion when he was deployed to Afghanistan.
 
Upvote 0

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,523
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
That is just like the family of one of my sons-in-law. Forced "conversion" back in the 1500s, then moved to the New World where they were cryptos. He was about about halfway thru a Sephardic conversion when he was deployed to Afghanistan.
In my family, I suspect that the original conversion was simply one of convenience for intermarriage. But I can't prove it. I just know that in America we don't have forced conversions. Intermarriage is just the most likely reason.

Can I ask how your BIL's funeral was handled? Was it Jewish? Was he buried in a Jewish cemetary? I always wonder what happens to people when they die midway through a conversion.
 
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,524
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Can I ask how your BIL's funeral was handled? Was it Jewish? Was he buried in a Jewish cemetery? I always wonder what happens to people when they die midway through a conversion.
No - it was a regular christian service and burial in a standard cemetery. Since he died in Colombia, there was a lot of red tape getting him shipped back to the US. The Chabad house overseeing his conversion backed off when he became ill and the rabbi there questioned his reason for conversion.

BTW - that was NOT my son in law. He is alive and well in Albuquerque. AFAIK, he did not resume the conversion process after getting back from Afghanistan. I don't think there are any Sephardi rabbis there who understand the whole converso crypto situation.
 
Upvote 0

Elihoenai

Who has ceased to eat Manna?
Apr 9, 2015
428
79
London, England
✟49,200.00
Faith
The Carnal calling themselves by the name Jew cannot hear what is called the New Testament and, therefore, teach false doctrine.

The Carnal calling themselves by the name Christian cannot hear the Hebrew Scriptures and, therefore, teach false doctrine.

Beware of the Leaven of both Camps.


Genesis 25:24-26 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

24 And her days to bear are fulfilled, and lo, twins [are] in her womb;

25 and the first cometh out all red as a hairy robe, and they call his name Esau;

26 and afterwards hath his brother come out, and his hand is taking hold on Esau's heel, and one calleth his name Jacob; and Isaac [is] a son of sixty years in her bearing them.



Matthew 16:6 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

6 and Jesus said to them, `Beware, and take heed of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees;'
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lulav
Upvote 0

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,523
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
The Carnal calling themselves by the name Christian cannot hear the Hebrew Scriptures and, therefore, teach false doctrine.
So tell me who you think it is that does NOT teach false doctrine.
 
Upvote 0

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,523
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
Go to the source: Yeshua and the written scriptures. Ask for the Spirit of Yah to teach you.
Are you saying that the only way to learn the truth is to read the Bible by yourself? That there should be no teachers???? Isn't THAT contradictory to scriptures? Why would the apostles have teachers if we didn't need to be taught?
 
Upvote 0

pat34lee

Messianic
Sep 13, 2011
11,293
2,637
59
Florida, USA
✟89,330.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Are you saying that the only way to learn the truth is to read the Bible by yourself? That there should be no teachers???? Isn't THAT contradictory to scriptures? Why would the apostles have teachers if we didn't need to be taught?

Of course you have teachers. There is a hierarchy that must be followed. If your teacher doesn't follow Yah, neither will you. If he teaches you that evil is good, you will believe it. Catholicism and to various degrees, most churches teach a mixture of Judaism, sun worship and paganism and call it Christianity.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,523
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
Gee, the Pope confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.

I think you are going to have to come up with a better way to test teachers. There are many who confess Jesus is come in the flesh, but who don't agree with each other on what to teach. So again, we are back to the same question: How do you know which teacher will not lead you wrong?

If you are getting tired of the discussion, just let me know. I feel like there is a lot of repetition going on on my end of things.
 
Upvote 0

Elihoenai

Who has ceased to eat Manna?
Apr 9, 2015
428
79
London, England
✟49,200.00
Faith
So tell me who you think it is that does NOT teach false doctrine.


John 8:21 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

21 therefore said Jesus again to them, `I go away, and ye will seek me, and in your sin ye shall die; whither I go away, ye are not able to come.'




John 7:16-17 King James Version (KJV)

16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
 
Upvote 0

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,523
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
John 8:21 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

21 therefore said Jesus again to them, `I go away, and ye will seek me, and in your sin ye shall die; whither I go away, ye are not able to come.'




John 7:16-17 King James Version (KJV)

16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
non answer
 
Upvote 0

pat34lee

Messianic
Sep 13, 2011
11,293
2,637
59
Florida, USA
✟89,330.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
Gee, the Pope confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.

I think you are going to have to come up with a better way to test teachers. There are many who confess Jesus is come in the flesh, but who don't agree with each other on what to teach. So again, we are back to the same question: How do you know which teacher will not lead you wrong?

If you are getting tired of the discussion, just let me know. I feel like there is a lot of repetition going on on my end of things.

You missed the other two sets of verses. Fruit of the spirit. A bad tree cannot put forth good fruit. There are good people in the RCC, but the tree is rotten from the top down.
 
  • Like
Reactions: visionary
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,523
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
You missed the other two sets of verses. Fruit of the spirit. A bad tree cannot put forth good fruit. There are good people in the RCC, but the tree is rotten from the top down.
Really? I certainly haven't noticed. But let's leave this sort of discussion for when we are in the theology section, eh?
 
Upvote 0

pat34lee

Messianic
Sep 13, 2011
11,293
2,637
59
Florida, USA
✟89,330.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Really? I certainly haven't noticed. But let's leave this sort of discussion for when we are in the theology section, eh?

You have missed the news then about all the child abuse in the churches then, or priest-nun sex scandals. This is a direct result of the church's stand on celibacy, which is directly anti-biblical.
 
Upvote 0

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,523
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
You have missed the news then about all the child abuse in the churches then, or priest-nun sex scandals. This is a direct result of the church's stand on celibacy, which is directly anti-biblical.
Like I said, I;d rather discuss this in Theology. It's not a quick question and answer, and I'd rather not get involved in Catholic topics in here.
 
Upvote 0

visionary

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.
Site Supporter
Mar 25, 2004
56,933
8,043
✟577,164.44
Faith
Messianic
Are you saying that the only way to learn the truth is to read the Bible by yourself? That there should be no teachers???? Isn't THAT contradictory to scriptures? Why would the apostles have teachers if we didn't need to be taught?
IT is what Yeshua stated... learn from Him....
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums