The ONE LAW Movement

[visionary]

Because Acts 20:7 shows the beginning of the 2000 year long tradition of meeting on Sunday for eucharist.

Evidence of faulty thinking... Jews don't meet on Sunday for eucharist...even believers of the Messiah would never do an unJewish thing like that.

 

[visionary]

I don't think fellowship is something you devote yourself to. Fellowship is something people are naturally attracted to.
I am certainly not calling regular meals the body of Christ. You had fun making that up. I asked YOU if YOU thought a regular meal was the body of Christ -- it was a rhetorical question of course. Paul called breaking bread the body of Christ. Deal with it.

Breaking bread is used three times in the NT, and all three times it refers to eucharist. You don't have a leg to stand on.

So I'm just curious. Why are you so dead set against "breaking bread" being the Lord's Supper?

Whose theology does this belong to?

 

[Open Heart]

Sabbath is Queen

l'cha dodi

 

[Open Heart]

Jews don't meet on Sunday for {censored}

I agreed with Lulav not to use the E word.

 

[Open Heart]

Whose theology does this belong to?

BTW, I took back what I said about being devoted to fellowship. I regret saying it now.

The theology of calling the Lord's Supper "breaking bread"? It is most clearly taught by Paul in 1 Cor 10:16: "Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?"

I had never met anyone in person or in writing who thought breaking bread meant anything other than communion until we discussed it here in this forum.

 

[visionary]

BTW, I took back what I said about being devoted to fellowship. I regret saying it now.

The theology of calling the Lord's Supper "breaking bread"? It is most clearly taught by Paul in 1 Cor 10:16: "Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?"

I had never met anyone in person or in writing who thought breaking bread meant anything other than communion until we discussed it here in this forum.

"communion" is not MJ terminology

 

[Open Heart]

"communion" is not MJ terminology

communion is not distinctly Catholic. You're gonna have to live with the Lord's Supper and communion, because those are neutral terms. I'm obviously not familiar with whatever you are thinking of. The Messianic synagogue that I went to a little bit did use the term communion, although they only did it once a year.

 

[BelieveTheWord]

This is pretty much how every person feels about those with a different view.

That's because there is truth to it. Christianity for most of it's history has picked through scripture and come up philosophies about what applies when, and what doesn't. The backward reading of Scripture, and twisting of Paul's meanings lead to a complete disconnect with the whole story of Scripture, and contraction with the Messiah's teaching. An avenue that is hardly ever chosen to read it as it was revealed, and understand things from the way they were revealed. This is what 2 Peter 3:14-18 is all about.

Your post was a killer post. I definitely enjoyed reading it. What an asset to the thread!

Thanks!

 

[ContraMundum]

Sabbath is Queen

Right...so you are now Rabbinic?

 

[ContraMundum]

"communion" is not MJ terminology

Well, it is Biblical. Paul the Jewish teacher used it- and everyone since. Hate to say it but if you reject a Biblical term because it doesn't sound "Jewish enough" for you then you have a problem with scripture, not with the the term.

Surely you don't believe that MJism should ban the use of Biblical terms by its adherents?

 

[visionary]

Strongs # Hb/Gk Word Pronunciation English Equivalent
Old Testament (Hebrew) for "communion"
No Hebrew/Aramaic Results
Strongs # Hb/Gk Word Pronunciation English Equivalent

New Testament (Greek) for "communion"
G2842 koinōnia koi-nō-nē'-ä fellowship, communion, communication, distribution, contribution, to communicate

Still not in the sense that it was presented here.

 

[visionary]

Right...so you are now Rabbinic?

No... just not thinking that grace of Christ is queen.

 

[Dave-W]

Hmm...

Uh....too weird to respond to. Just......so surprising coming from you.

Not that surprizing. Anyone who embraces "one law" will have to seriously reject Dan Juster.
BTW - Juster is NOT in the MJAA, he is in the UMJC and heads up the Tikkun network.

 

[Dave-W]

Because Acts 20:7 shows the beginning of the 2000 year long tradition of meeting on Sunday for eucharist.

Evidence of faulty thinking... Jews don't meet on Sunday for eucharist...even believers of the Messiah would never do an unJewish thing like that.

Actually that describes a Havdalah service, starts Saturday evening at sundown. It seemed to be rather popular in first century Messianic circles.

 

[ErezY]

Hopefully people of other nations are not calling themselves Jewish... Torah observe should be just respect and love revealed in the believer.

When one defines themselves as 'a Judaism', they are in essence calling themselves Jewish. You can't separate Judaism from being Jewish, though I see you are trying real hard at it, it is impossible to do.

 

[Ken Rank]

Hmm...

Uh....too weird to respond to. Just......so surprising coming from you.

Why? I reject the idea that anyone who is not Jewish but who still belongs to the God of Israel having come in faith through the Messiah of Israel is given a set of 7 commands to follow that isn't even in the bible while the Jews only follow Torah. The Torah was given to Israel AND the ger (stranger/foreigner) with them.

Even the NATIONS who came against Israel will keep Feasts like Tabernacles in the Millennial Kingdom and those who love the God of Israel and didn't come against Israel play by a separate set of rules? It just doesn't make any sense at all. At least, to me.

Blessings.
Ken

 

[ErezY]

What seems to be missing is the Jewish understanding that when Messiah comes he will make everything new and give a Torah that would far surpass and make vain the Torah we have now. It's just common Jewish Messianic thought. "The Torah which man learns in this world is but vanity compared with the teaching of the Messiah." Midrash Qoheleth

RaMBaM said "Torah which we now have was given to Moses" and "This Torah will not be changed nor will the Creator -- may he be blessed -- institute any other Torah". Yet he then states in "Ordinances of the Kings" that the King anointed as Messiah will "sit on his kingly throne and write for himself a Book of the Law in addition to the Law given to our Fathers" and "He will compel Israel to obey these commandments".

It's simply not a Jewish concept that the Torah given at Sinai is the Torah for all eternity. Judaism has always believed in a Messiah that would come and establish God's laws in person. The only group who demands that the Torah given at the mountain is the Torah Messiah also gives when he comes are one law. Jews know that the Torah given at Sinai was given because of a corrupt heart within the people. When Messiah comes he fixes that corruptness, thus making that Torah complete. What was given for our healing has brought healing to us, namely Messiah Yeshua. So to demand all must fall back under the surgeons knife after we are healed is very sinful, to me. Torah brings Yeshua, who bring the healing of the nations. Yeshua is the center of the universe, not the operation that reveals his coming. Torah is completely observed by knowing Yeshua personally. His instructions are given in real time within us now. In this way Yeshua=Torah, as he is revealing the will of God 'heart to heart', not scroll to heart. And Judaism has prophesied this for centuries. As proven by the quotes above.

 

[Open Heart]

When one defines themselves as 'a Judaism', they are in essence calling themselves Jewish. You can't separate Judaism from being Jewish, though I see you are trying real hard at it, it is impossible to do.

Stuart Dauermann used to say to me, "How can it be Messianic Judaism without Jews?"

 

[visionary]

When one defines themselves as 'a Judaism', they are in essence calling themselves Jewish. You can't separate Judaism from being Jewish, though I see you are trying real hard at it, it is impossible to do.

Judaism is a religion, Jews are the people. God's kingdom is made up of obedient people, which for the sake of definition, the laws he provided make up what is called biblical Judaism. The laws of various Judaism groups, are halacha'ed for each different take on it. Messianic Judaism has incorporated Yeshua definition, input, and halacha. If some members in Messianic Judaism want to halacha it towards orthodox Judaism seeking acceptance, my question is "Is that the right path?" Yeshua warned against "traditions" that void the law. Aliyah has a big obvious hurdle and that is forsaking "Yeshua" for full acceptance. I say keep your eyes upon Yeshua.

 

[Open Heart]

I say keep your eyes upon Yeshua.

We can all of us agree on that!