Zionism in Christianity

[TheSeeker2014]

Why is there a minority of Christians who support Zionism?
Does this not enable Jews to cling to the Old Covenant?
Should our focus be on evangelizing rather than helping Jews acquire physical land and building the 3rd temple?
I guess my question is why are there Christians who support Zionism? when Jews that exist today (that are not Christian) are Jews who reject their Messiah or they are Jews who dont know the Messiah came or about Jesus in general really
Is not the Church the progression of Israel as Jews who accepted the Messiah became Christians and Gentiles who accepted the Messiah are grafted into that?

 

[com7fy8]

Is not the Church the progression of Israel as Jews who accepted the Messiah became Christians and Gentiles who accepted the Messiah are grafted into that?

The church was started by Jesus through Jews, including our Apostle Peter and Paul and others. So, we who have Gentile background have joined with Jews who obey God. We have not replaced the obedient Jews.

 

[dreadnought]

Why is there a minority of Christians who support Zionism?
Does this not enable Jews to cling to the Old Covenant?
Should our focus be on evangelizing rather than helping Jews acquire physical land and building the 3rd temple?
I guess my question is why are there Christians who support Zionism? when Jews that exist today (that are not Christian) are Jews who reject their Messiah or they are Jews who dont know the Messiah came or about Jesus in general really
Is not the Church the progression of Israel as Jews who accepted the Messiah became Christians and Gentiles who accepted the Messiah are grafted into that?

The politically correct thing to do is to hate the Jews. As for the rest of us, the Jews have the right to live in peace just as we do.

 

[dude99]

The church was started by Jesus through Jews, including our Apostle Peter and Paul and others. So, we who have Gentile background have joined with Jews who obey God. We have not replaced the obedient Jews.

Yet does it mean that Jews have to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved or not? Actually is the physical nation of Israel saved since 2% of the population is now Christian?

 

[com7fy8]

Yet does it mean that Jews have to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved or not?

Every one of us has needed to trust in Christ (Ephesians 1:12), in order to be saved.

Actually is the physical nation of Israel saved since 2% of the population is now Christian?

The belief of 2% does not save the 98% who do not believe. Flesh and blood Jewishness does not save a person >

"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God." (Romans 2:28-29)

 

[dqhall]

Why is there a minority of Christians who support Zionism?
Does this not enable Jews to cling to the Old Covenant?
Should our focus be on evangelizing rather than helping Jews acquire physical land and building the 3rd temple?
I guess my question is why are there Christians who support Zionism? when Jews that exist today (that are not Christian) are Jews who reject their Messiah or they are Jews who dont know the Messiah came or about Jesus in general really
Is not the Church the progression of Israel as Jews who accepted the Messiah became Christians and Gentiles who accepted the Messiah are grafted into that?

Jews have a right to return to Israel. Israel only allows Jewish immigration. You might find the United States is probably the most pro-Israel ally they have. In 1973 Israel was attacked by Arab armies from the north and the south. They were nearly defeated until the United States started airlifting massive amounts of military supplies to Israel. Israel has received more support from the United States than any other nation. It is because some Christians befriended Zionists. The United States has many Christians, but is only 1.4% Jewish.

 

[TheSeeker2014]

The church was started by Jesus through Jews, including our Apostle Peter and Paul and others. So, we who have Gentile background have joined with Jews who obey God. We have not replaced the obedient Jews.

sorry i will be a little more detailed on this so everyone knows where i am coming from more.
Im not meaning replacement theology when I say that the Church are the Jews who actually accepted the Messiah and the Gentiles who accepted the Messiah are grafted into that. I do mean the Jews who actually did not reject God and became Christians are the continuation of Israel meaning the Church is the continuation of Israel. Any Gentile who accepted Christ is grafted into that.
This leaves Jews who practice Judaism as outside of Spiritual Israel. whether it is because they are in rebellion or they simply dont know about Jesus. However if they come to Jesus they can still be grafted into the tree too. (ref romans 11) Thus, all of Israel being saved is referring to those who do not reject the Messiah.
my op question, Is this not true?

 

[R. Hartono]

Jesus says other people Will come with His name (antichrist) and they shall rcv him John 5:43

 

[Humble me Lord]

I don't think there is a distinction made about Jews being saved or not, The Jews are still Gods chosen people. That said, they will be held to a higher standard in the judgement, those who are given much, more is required.

 

[Micah888]

Why is there a minority of Christians who support Zionism?

That's a good question. Christians should not really be "supporting" Zionism or the state of Israel in a spiritual sense. Some wish to support Israel's right to exist, but others go too far and claim that Jews do not need to be converted to Christ. However, there are also Messianic Jews, who are technically Christians, but do not wish to be identified with Gentiles. They believe the Gospel and that Christ is their Messiah.

 

[com7fy8]

Im not meaning replacement theology

I did not take you to be meaning replacement theology. But ones can think we mean this, when in fact Jews were used by Jesus to start the church. Also . . . in Revelation Jesus Himself speaks of "the New Jerusalem, which comes down out off Heaven from My God" > Revelation 3:12. And our Apostle Paul speaks of the Jerusalem which is above > "the mother of us all" < Galatians 4:26. So, this Jerusalem is not the earthbound and corruptible Jerusalem of the present creation as it is.

Does true Zionism, then, mean God bringing His people to the earthbound or to the Heavenly, then? I suppose there could be a return of worldly Jews to the corruptible Jerusalem in human history, but we in Jesus are in the Heavenly Jerusalem of the "new heaven" and "new earth".

In any case, returning to land is not returning to the LORD, if ones on the land do not honor Jesus as their Messiah. Only through Jesus can anyone come to the Father > John 14:6.

Thus, all of Israel being saved is referring to those who do not reject the Messiah.
my op question, Is this not true?

To me, this is the most likely understanding. Jesus did say there are Jews who will not be accepted in the day of judgment.

 

[com7fy8]

Jews have a right to return to Israel.

In the Jewish Torah, the LORD clearly warns how rebellious Jews can be kicked out of Israel and spread all over the earth. So, in case a Jew goes to Israel, but does not honor the LORD through our Messiah Jesus, that Jew is not guaranteed security in Israel . . . according to the Jewish Torah.

But, even so, now our Messiah has started the New Covenant which could mean God will have mercy on disobedient Jews in Israel and allow them to stay there, even though they are refusing God's own Son Jesus. And we have our Christian brothers and sisters who are in Israel reaching to the disobedient ones. So, things are different, now.

But, technically . . . if a Jew is refusing his or her Messiah . . . this person does not have any real rights, right?

But we Jesus people own Jerusalem and all the Jews, do we not? I mean, going by 1 Corinthians 3:21-23 > even our Apostle Paul and our Apostle Peter are ours, and they are Jews. We are with God who owns all; so as His children we share all with Him.

 

[Norbert L]

Why is there a minority of Christians who support Zionism?
Does this not enable Jews to cling to the Old Covenant?
Should our focus be on evangelizing rather than helping Jews acquire physical land and building the 3rd temple?
I guess my question is why are there Christians who support Zionism? when Jews that exist today (that are not Christian) are Jews who reject their Messiah or they are Jews who dont know the Messiah came or about Jesus in general really
Is not the Church the progression of Israel as Jews who accepted the Messiah became Christians and Gentiles who accepted the Messiah are grafted into that?

When it comes to acquiring land, there's been substantial discussion here in Canada about the land that was acquired historically from the aboriginal population and its' injustice.

I imagine there are some Christians who view it only about getting that 3rd temple built but that's only the easy answer everybody likes to point to. The bigger discussion to be had are ancestral property rights and sovereignty of a nation.

 

[com7fy8]

I imagine there are some Christians who view it only about getting that 3rd temple built but that's only the easy answer everybody likes to point to. The bigger discussion to be had are ancestral property rights and sovereignty of a nation.

But if people live against God, they are not guaranteed security; the Jews got kicked out of the promised land because they rebelled against the LORD. Their Torah is very clear about this.

So, likewise, if any of us humans live against God, we are not safe and what we have is not secure.

Also . . . in Revelation we see what is said about the Temple which will be. It is not like any humanly made temple which can be on this earth as it is. So, it is interesting to deal with if prophesy means a manmade temple on the earth as it is . . . and/or on the earth which will be in "the glorious liberty of the children of God."

You might feed on what God means in Romans 8:21, and how this might apply to what is meant by the temple which will be rebuilt. Will it be on this corruptible earth, or on the "new" earth (Revelation 21:1) which is resurrectional in newness of quality of our "glorious liberty"?

 

[Norbert L]

But if people live against God, they are not guaranteed security;

This is the General Politics forum, not theology. Plenty of nations in this world live against the God of the Bible and have security.

Besides even in the most anti-Christian nations there have always been a few people who start believing in the Christ's message. There are always a few Christians who make it their job to do missionary work in hostile countries. Expressions like "if people live against God, they are not guaranteed security" are only less thought out ideas that sound good and religious on the surface. The way I see it, it's religious click bait.

 

[com7fy8]

This is the General Politics forum, not theology. Plenty of nations in this world live against the God of the Bible and have security.

Politics are effected by what is theologically true, though. This is why I have offered what I have.

And Jesus is clear how people of this world do not have true security. And so, if people political seek selfish sorts of security . . . it is not real security. And they do come down, after a while.

Expressions like "if people live against God, they are not guaranteed security" are only less thought out ideas that sound good and religious on the surface.

This is not only an idea. The Bible is very clear how things work, if ones go against God. And this does effect politics and history. God's word is clear how we are not safe, truly, while we live against God. In us, we are not safe and secure, while obeying "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience." (in Ephesians 2:12)

People might have some sort of outward security, but we keep hearing of how inside themselves they have the "torment" of fear > you might consider 1 John 4:18, about how only God's love can cast fear out, with its "torment". We can see how people because the "torment" of their fear have done things humans have done in history and politics.

So, I am offering a Biblical perspective about what can influence politics and human history. I understand that you, too, are welcome to give a scriptural perspective about politics and history, in this forum.

 

[Norbert L]

Politics are effected by what is theologically true, though. This is why I have offered what I have.

And Jesus is clear how people of this world do not have true security. And so, if people political seek selfish sorts of security . . . it is not real security. And they do come down, after a while.

This is not only an idea. The Bible is very clear how things work, if ones go against God. And this does effect politics and history. God's word is clear how we are not safe, truly, while we live against God. In us, we are not safe and secure, while obeying "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience." (in Ephesians 2:12)

People might have some sort of outward security, but we keep hearing of how inside themselves they have the "torment" of fear > you might consider 1 John 4:18, about how only God's love can cast fear out, with its "torment". We can see how people because the "torment" of their fear have done things humans have done in history and politics.

So, I am offering a Biblical perspective about what can influence politics and human history. I understand that you, too, are welcome to give a scriptural perspective about politics and history, in this forum.

I think the idea of Politics are effected by what is theologically true is another one of those easy answers, whose theology are we talking about? Hindus, Buddhists or Muslims? Those all likewise make claims about truth and security and they've got a large chunk of real estate on this planet too.

Everybody knows we all die, even Atheists feel secure. As Stephen Hawking said, “There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark.” Looking at his physically tormented condition, I would satirically suggest that this looks like he sounds very afraid.

The way I see it, people generally want to define what has happened in Israel as they see the world, only some of those ideas do some good. Other ideas are nothing more than being so heavenly minded that their of no earthly good.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Why is there a minority of Christians who support Zionism?

(1) Because they conflate the state of Israel today with the Southern Kingdom/Judah in the Hebrew Bible and think that you must "bless" them and not "curse" them so that you can be blessed and not cursed. Further, they generally seem to think that any lack of support, (or worse, any criticism) of the modern state is probably equivalent to "cursing."

(2) They generally believe that the modern state of Israel is required in order for Jesus' return, and this thinking usually includes the building of a temple. There's some sequence of events that must take place and all center on the modern state of Israel and a temple.

Should our focus be on evangelizing rather than helping Jews acquire physical land and building the 3rd temple?

Yes.

 

[Sketcher]

Why is there a minority of Christians who support Zionism?
Does this not enable Jews to cling to the Old Covenant?

Zionism became a thing with the fall of the Ottoman Empire. Jews were clinging to the Old Covenant for thousands of years before that.

Should our focus be on evangelizing rather than helping Jews acquire physical land and building the 3rd temple?

Jesus is a tough sell to many Jews. Denying the right of Israel to exist and protect itself will make it an even tougher sell for most of them.

I guess my question is why are there Christians who support Zionism?

When you grow up reading Old Testament stories of Abraham, Moses, Joshua, David, and Daniel, it's a natural fit.

Is not the Church the progression of Israel as Jews who accepted the Messiah became Christians and Gentiles who accepted the Messiah are grafted into that?

Romans 11:25-29 says that God is not done with Israel yet.

 

[usexpat97]

Jews that espouse Zionism wouldn't have been called Jews, either, pre-Holocaust. Zionism was considered a heresy.