Zimmerman Found Not Guilty!

[Fantine]

And this is the most important sentence you wrote Fantine. You didn't follow the trial, nor did you do much research on the subject before you wrote. If you did you would have learned that Trayvon was not shot in the back, but in the chest at close range that is consistent with the understanding that the shot occurred during the fighting.

When the jury has to make a decision based on laws that heavily favor the perpetrator instead of the victim and enormously inadequate gun control regulations, they're not looking at "guilt" the way God would...they're seeing it through the distorted prism of a sick society.

I suppose the real truth is: Zimmerman: "not guilty." State of Florida: guilty.

 

[Davidnic]

Are we going to try to whitewash the institutional slavery of blacks by pointing out a very small amount of other people were enslaved in the country?

Depending on what we are looking at it is not really whitewashing. For centuries Irish, Italians, PA Dutch and Slovak were essentially enslaved by coal companies. They worked for negative wages and the company owned the houses. They made money on paper but were charged for the tools and explosives of the work and given a bill, not a pay at the end of the month. So they were deeper in debt to the company store and the company. They were owned by them.

There were differences. The miners chose to come to America and were not sold and they could become citizens and eventually vote. But even then they still were owned by the company and debtors rules. And their children were introduced into the cycle of slavery as new workers. Until labor equality the enslavement of coal miners was an institution that was supported by the US government to perpetuate an industry vital to the country. Just like slavery was when we relied heavily on the south for our economy. Coal drove a nation on the backs of families owned by the companies. It was more analogy in some ways to sharecropping but had many elements directly comparable to slavery.

Similar stories exist in other industries for centuries, and it was an institution.

Pointing that out in no way diminishes the horror of buying and selling people on an institutional level. But there are parallels just as there are differences. There are also lingering issues of racial hatred for ethnic groups in the former industrial regions (Coal, Steel and Railroad). Indeed, the issues in no way approach the issues that many black people faced and face; but they can form a common understanding to a degree if we let it rather than not allow the comparison...imperfect though it may be.

I do think it has a place in the overall discussion of dignity in this country and understanding it does not diminish the understanding of slavery. A social discussion of black slavery can no more ignore the industrial slavery of those in industries like coal mining anymore than a grandparent can ignore a grandchild. One is a direct outgrowth of the mindset of the latter. It was...how can we continue to enslave people without legally enslaving them so we can keep our industry low cost to run and keep the money flowing. It is all the same tree, different branches.

 

[LoAmmi]

I think it is comparable, but in the end those people were not viewed as property. They weren't viewed much better, but I don't know of any laws that were passed that required a state to return a runaway coal miner, for example.

 

[MikeK]

It was...how can we continue to enslave people without legally enslaving them so we can keep our industry low cost to run and keep the money flowing. It is all the same tree, different branches.

Unfortunately, that still goes on, even in this country. Not the way it was, but still very much a gotcha mentality by employers who set up shops in poor areas for the purpose of exploiting a seperate workforce with no other options.

 

[Davidnic]

I think it is comparable, but in the end those people were not viewed as property. They weren't viewed much better, but I don't know of any laws that were passed that required a state to return a runaway coal miner, for example.

Actually my great great grandparents were viewed as property. If a miner left the company could stop a run away coal miner under debtors laws; which crossed state lines. They charged them for their tools and explosives so they always owed the company and the bills grew as the family dared to do things like eat. They were owned in place of the debt that was a false debt.

A miner could not leave and if he did he was beaten or jailed and his family thrown into the cold to die. Debts at the death of the father were passed to the son.

So, there is far more comparable in it than many think. Black slavery was worse, but they are related and in the same discussion.

And, if done right the discussion could help understanding of the dignity of everyone.

 

[LoAmmi]

Yeah, the origins of unions are pretty bleak when you really think about it.

Actually my great great grandparents were viewed as property. If a miner left the company could stop a run away coal miner under debtors laws; which crossed state lines. They charged them for their tools and explosives so they always owed the company and the bills grew as the family dared to do things like eat. They were owned in place of the debt that was a false debt.

A miner could not leave and if he did he was beaten or jailed and his family thrown into the cold to die. Debts at the death of the father were passed to the son.

So, there is far more comparable in it than many think. Black slavery was worse, but they are related and in the same discussion.

And, if done right the discussion could help understanding of the dignity of everyone.

 

[Davidnic]

Unfortunately, that still goes on, even in this country. Not the way it was, but still very much a gotcha mentality by employers who set up shops in poor areas for the purpose of exploiting a seperate workforce with no other options.

Yep. And sadly now many unions (which used to defend) are complicit in the money making. And globally it is worse. That is why I think they are all the same root...removing the dignity of the worker for money.

 

[bhsmte]

Well, not "we". We're the good guys. Other people will try to do exactly that, yes. We need to remind them of the unquantifyable advantages we white were born with. There is no way that I would trade, in this place and time, my white skin for black, my white-sounding name for a black-sounding name, etc. Being black is still a strong disadvantage. Things are better than they were, by leaps and bounds, but in no way are they where they need to be.

I agree with you.

And, the worst thing one can do, is to convict someone with no evidence, to make up for problems that happened in the past. Thats how the justice system is supposed to be and thankfully, this is what the jury did.

I can't say the same for the mainstream media or many others, that rushed to judgment without knowing the facts.

 

[bhsmte]

When the jury has to make a decision based on laws that heavily favor the perpetrator instead of the victim and enormously inadequate gun control regulations, they're not looking at "guilt" the way God would...they're seeing it through the distorted prism of a sick society.

I suppose the real truth is: Zimmerman: "not guilty." State of Florida: guilty.

Disagree. Objectivity, evidence and presumming innocence are the cornerstones of our justice system and that was extremely important to the framers of the constitution. If you take your eye off of these standards, is when you cease to live in a civilized world.

 

[LeoWyatt]

Are we going to try to whitewash the institutional slavery of blacks by pointing out a very small amount of other people were enslaved in the country?

I guess not because any time a white person has a problem, it's no big deal. This is because white people are scum.

 

[LoAmmi]

I guess not because any time a white person has a problem, it's no big deal. This is because white people are scum.

Not sure how this is relevant to what I said.

 

[Michie]

Justice Department places 'hold' on Trayvon Martin evidence

The U.S. Department of Justice has ordered the Sanford, Florida police department to hold all the evidence from George ...

Justice Department places 'hold' on Trayvon Martin evidence - U.s. - Catholic Online

 

[Michie]

Ivy League Professor's Remarks about Race and God Exemplify Disgraceful Leadership in America

Anthea Butler's comments about race and God in response to the not guilty verdict in the George Zimmerman trial are not a ...

Ivy League Professor's Remarks about Race and God Exemplify Disgraceful Leadership in America - U.s. - Catholic Online

 

[Tigg]

I guess not because any time a white person has a problem, it's no big deal. This is because white people are scum.

There are white scum, black scum, brown scum, yellow scum - all sorts of people who are scum. Yawn... The best to do is hang with all those different colored people who aren't scum. Member who ya hang with, ya tend to become. One's color has no part of who is scum...

 

[Michie]

There are white scum, black scum, brown scum, yellow scum - all sorts of people who are scum. Yawn... The best to do is hang with all those different colored people who aren't scum. Member who ya hang with, ya tend to become. One's color has no part of who is scum...

Amen.

 

[Michie]

The professor like a lot of them is a nut.

Her comments on race and God were in response to the not guilty verdict in the George Zimmerman trial. She wrote, "God ain't good all of the time. In fact, sometimes, God is not for us. As a black woman in a nation that has taken too many pains to remind me that I am not a white man, and am not capable of taking care of my reproductive rights, or my voting rights, I know that this American god ain't my god. As a matter of fact, I think he's a white racist god with a problem. More importantly, he is carrying a gun and stalking young black men."

She goes on: "Is God the old white male racist looking down from white heaven, ready to bless me if I just believe the white men . . . ?" She also says that Christians are "some of the biggest racists," and that the underpinnings of racism in America are based on Christianity.

 

[TheOtherHockeyMom]

It would be way too easy for me to discount her words since I'm still seeing the world through a bit if a white privilege lens. I'm learning slowly.

 

[bhsmte]

The professor like a lot of them is a nut.

The prof certainly appears to have some pent up anger. And anger always gets in the way of rational thought.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Hold the 'evidence' - we want our day in court.

Forget double jeopardy - there's anew way around that. Write a bill - pass it - try ppl on it.

 

[Michie]

The prof certainly appears to have some pent up anger. And anger always gets in the way of rational thought.

True but it seems to be a way of life for some.