Zec 12-13, Bringing the Jews home to Christ

[ebedmelech]

Ebedmelech

These verses have nothing to do with with Pentecost.

Act 2:17 'In the last days,' God says, 'I will pour out My Spirit upon all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy. Your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams.


Zec 12:9 For on that day I will begin to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:10 "Then I will pour out a spirit of grace and prayer on the family of David and on the people of Jerusalem. They will look on Me whom they have pierced and mourn for Him as for an only son. They will grieve bitterly for Him as for a firstborn son who has died.

Well...let's examine that...because while you're reading the passage I don't think you're considering what is said.

Pay attention to verse 10...and answer this:

*Who is the "house of David"?

*Who are the "people of Jerusalem"?

I await your response.

 

[Interplanner]

There are other ways of destroying nations. The bugger to Rome about the Christian message was it was incredibly powerful without an army for Rome to deal with.

 

[7sForDays]

Well...let's examine that...because while you're reading the passage I don't think you're considering what is said.

Pay attention to verse 10...and answer this:

*Who is the "house of David"?

*Who are the "people of Jerusalem"?

I await your response.

Perhaps a visual..

 

[ebedmelech]

I've always wanted to ask people who believe in Replacement Theology, why does Yeshua marry his Mother? Cause under that view the Woman of Revelation 12 and the Bride in 19 have to become the same woman.

Ruth and Genesis 22-24, both clearly present 2 symbolic Women, Israel and the Church, Sarah and Rebecca, Naomi and Ruth.

Well...who believes that? That's another total falsehood of the futurist argument.

There are those who ignorantly and erroneously say the church is Israel. That's not what happened at the cross.

What happens is "True Israel is a matter of Spiritual relationship! Paul says it very clear in Romans 9:6-8
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.”
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

This is pretty clear *if* you know who "the children of promise" are.

 

[7sForDays]

Well...who believes that? That's another total falsehood of the futurist argument.

There are those who ignorantly and erroneously say the church is Israel. That's not what happened at the cross.

What happens is "True Israel is a matter of Spiritual relationship! Paul says it very clear in Romans 9:6-8
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.”
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

This is pretty clear *if* you know who "the children of promise" are.

What is a Gentile who is circumcised in the heart?

A Jew or a Christian?

 

[ebedmelech]

What is a Gentile who is circumcised in the heart?

A Jew or a Christian?

Well...let Paul spell it out for you in Romans 2;28, 29:
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

What do you think?

 

[7sForDays]

Well...let Paul spell it out for you in Romans 2;28, 29:
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

What do you think?

Christian

 

[Old Timer]

Yes, Christian would be my answer as well.. seeing that in Christ there is neither Jew or Gentile.

 

[7sForDays]

Yes, Christian would be my answer as well.. seeing that in Christ there is neither Jew or Gentile.

 

[Old Timer]

I Won! ! ! ! ! !

 

[Old Timer]

I love your way of getting things across brother!

 

[7sForDays]

I love your way of getting things across brother!

I actually think gifs, if used properly, can express what we are really thinking.

 

[Old Timer]

I actually think gifs, if used properly, can express what we are really thinking.

I agree.. they're excellent..

I literally almost pee'd in my pants with those three guys rolling their heads back and laughing..

 

[Shocker]

I agree.. they're excellent..

I literally almost pee'd in my pants with those three guys rolling their heads back and laughing..

I had to post that in the preterist thread.


so true

 

[ebedmelech]

Christian

That's not what the passage says though. It clearly says "he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit,"

That's a clear picture of salvation! It says one who is saved becomes a Jew Spiritually.

Paul makes this point in Romans chapters 4 and 9. He makes it pretty clear in Ephesiane 2:11-22.

He makes it clear in Philippians 3:3 where he says Christians are the "TRUE CIRCUMCISION".

These are the many ways Paul has made the point. Then there's the clear allegory he makes in Galatians 4:21-31:
21 Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law?
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman.
23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise.
24 This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar.
25 Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.
26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. 27 For it is written, “Rejoice, barren woman who does not bear; Break forth and shout, you who are not in labor; For more numerous are the children of the desolate Than of the one who has a husband.”
28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.
29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.
30 But what does the Scripture say?“Cast out the bondwoman and her son, For the son of the bondwoman shall not be an heir with the son of the free woman.”
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.

This is an inescapable passage that tells you the Christian is a Spiritually a descendant of Abraham through "the promise" which is Jesus.

As God told Abraham..."in Isaac shall your SEED be". and that SEED is Christ!

 

[Old Timer]

Ok, now there's tears in my eyes I'm LOL..

 

[7sForDays]

That's not what the passage says though. It clearly says "he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit,"

That's a clear picture of salvation! It says one who is saved becomes a Jew Spiritually.

Paul makes this point in Romans chapters 4 and 9. He makes it pretty clear in Ephesiane 2:11-22.

He makes it clear in Philippians 3:3 where he says Christians are the "TRUE CIRCUMCISION".

These are the many ways Paul has made the point. Then there's the clear allegory he makes in Galatians 4:21-31:
21 Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law?
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman.
23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise.
24 This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar.
25 Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.
26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. 27 For it is written, “Rejoice, barren woman who does not bear; Break forth and shout, you who are not in labor; For more numerous are the children of the desolate Than of the one who has a husband.”
28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.
29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.
30 But what does the Scripture say?“Cast out the bondwoman and her son, For the son of the bondwoman shall not be an heir with the son of the free woman.”
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.

This is an inescapable passage that tells you the Christian is a Spiritually a descendant of Abraham through "the promise" which is Jesus.

As God told Abraham..."in Isaac shall you SEED be". and that SEED is Christ!

Jew= True Jew or a False Jew

Gentile= Godless or a Christian


I have flash cards with cartoons and diagrams, gimme a sec to hunt them down.

 

[ebedmelech]

Jew= True Jew or a False Jew

Gentile= Godless or a Christian


I have flash cards with cartoons and diagrams, gimme a sec to hunt them down.

Do what you want...but by all means...don't deal with what those passages say, because if you do...you have to acknowledge what they say...which would be a true blow to what you believe.

 

[Notrash]

Do what you want...but by all means...don't deal with what those passages say, because if you do...you have to acknowledge what they say...which would be a true blow to what you believe.

These 3 recent joins don't care about how Christ or Paul explaine prophecy as fulfilled. They want war!!! And they'll literalize and actualize previous prophecies given to a people and time 2500 yrs ago which had fulfillment in the time of transition between the mosaic and everlasting covt.

It's like a football game to them. They'be been taught that something called Israel will be in a final battle and those forces which oppose whatever calls itself Israel" will be whiped out. So now, the dispensationalists/ziinists false "gospel" is to support Israel" and twist the intentiin of peace found through the scriptures into an intention of war. Ohhhh, they feel, if I could only die while being in favor of Israel, i'll be on the right team, be saved" and "win". It's a false axiim and anti-gospel based on the '67 scofield bible.

David Jeremiah, famous ent time gloom and doomer and beater of the war drums had a similar perspective which reflects his personal demons of what he thinks and teaches are 'end times. Oh, friend, if we only might find ourselves in church when these things begin coming to pass. He implies that your physical location inside a church building might get you an early or mire secure start on what he teaches is the rapture.

Any young people reading; flee or at least turn an analytical, objective ear to these issues.

Life is GOOD!!!!
"Salvation" is the free bi-lateral access to and friendship with the lifemaker through faith in his being and in his coming.(John 6:28,29) A reasonable response to this faith is to seek to honor him in positive life and spiritual walk and intercourse with "daddy".

So they testify to a false means of blessingand relationship with ones maker.

So they repeat whats already been explained to them. BW was/is another one. The goodness and truth of God needs established in the heart before the literary and historic fulfillment, picturesque intent can be seen and understood.

 

[7sForDays]

Do what you want...but by all means...don't deal with what those passages say, because if you do...you have to acknowledge what they say...which would be a true blow to what you believe.

Why would I have a problem with what scripture says..

Its talking about Jews, not Gentiles.

NLT (for modern clarity on a dated English vernacular)

Rom 2:28 For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision.

Rom 2:29 No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people.

What in those verses do you take away to have anything to do with Gentiles?


It isnt a guide for how to become a Jew.

As a Gentile in Christ, I dont Identify with gentile or Jew.