Zec 12-13, Bringing the Jews home to Christ

parousia70

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Oh how cool. You have the Jewish Messiah coming to redeem Yisrael by abolishing Torah and causing us to convert to a false religion. God waits for thousands of years promising to redeem, save, and establish His kingdom among/within Yisrael and when he comes to do this he does it by replacing all Yisrael and Judaism with Gentile Christians...??..

No such thing as Gentile Christians.
Christianity is: King Jesus of Israel and His followers called from both JEWISH and Gentile backgrounds, both grafted into one new man who is neither Jew nor gentile.

How quaint. Sorta like Obama, no? (promises to) Restores America by abolishing the Constitution. Yea, that's the way God works.... :doh:
Tell me, which part of the Constitution has been abolished exactly?

I know GW Bush pretty much abolished the 4th Amendment, and Obama seems to be carrying on with that precedent, tho to a lesser degree, but Bush FOR SURE gets the credit for shredding that one in the first place...
 
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7sForDays

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No such thing as Gentile Christians.
Christianity is: King Jesus of Israel and His followers called from both JEWISH and Gentile backgrounds, both grafted into one new man who is neither Jew nor gentile.

Tell me, which part of the Constitution has been abolished exactly?

:amen:
 
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parousia70

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Jew in Adam, or Christian.
Gentile in Adam, or Christian.

Bout how I see it..


Do You see a distinction between a Gentile in Adam and a Jew in Adam?

if so, What is it?
 
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7sForDays

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Do You see a distinction between a Gentile in Adam and a Jew in Adam?

if so, What is it?

I dont really understand your "Adam" stipulation in this regard.


I see Jews, Gentiles, and the hopeful end result for both, which is our family, the family of Christians.

Jews keep the Torah, (OT)
Jews worship God the father, YHWH

Gentiles who are not saved dont do this, they dont believe in God the father, and they reject Christ.
 
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7sForDays

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Rom 11:25 I want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ.

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved. As the Scriptures say, "The One who rescues will come from Jerusalem, and He will turn Israel away from ungodliness.

Rom 11:27 And this is My covenant with them, that I will take away their sins."

Rom 11:28 Many of the people of Israel are now enemies of the Good News, and this benefits you Gentiles. Yet they are still the people He loves because He chose their ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
 
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parousia70

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I dont really understand your "Adam" stipulation in this regard.

Original Sin, a state of being separated from God.

I see Jews, Gentiles, and the hopeful end result for both, which is our family, the family of Christians.
Ok...

Jews keep the Torah, (OT)

No they don't. None of them. AD70 made that impossible.

Jews worship God the father, YHWH

The only way to the father is through the Son.
They don't worship the father any more that Muslims do.
Both Worship the God of Abraham, but they do so without any countenance from Him.

Gentiles who are not saved dont do this, they dont believe in God the father, and they reject Christ.

Jews reject Christ as well... and God does not favor one sect of Christ Rejectors over another.
 
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parousia70

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Rom 11:25 I want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ.


Full Number of Gentiles?

What translation are you using?
 
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7sForDays

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Original Sin, a state of being separated from God.


Ok...



No they don't. None of them. AD70 made that impossible.



The only way to the father is through the Son.
They don't worship the father any more that Muslims do.
Both Worship the God of Abraham, but they do so without any countenance from Him.



Jews reject Christ as well... and God does not favor one sect of Christ Rejectors over another.

I guess I see Gods relationship with the Jews, and what he is doing with them as "his business"..

Otherwise, every Jew since Christs resurrection is essentially damned, no matter how much they love God. I cant find anything scripturally to support that.

Besides, you cant reject something you dont know about.. That would make God a tyrant.
 
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7sForDays

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Full Number of Gentiles?

What translation are you using?

Rom 11:7 What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened;

Rom 11:8 just as it is written, "GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY."
 
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Check the NT use of most of these, and you'll see that the official NT interp of them is that they are about the Gospel. Sometimes it is just an image that is borrowed, too.

btw, when Zech says something will happen in his future, why does that mean we jump to our times? The Gospel event was his future first.

So what is our future,do we not have one?Or does life just keep going on indefinitly?How long do we live with evil people,when Christ says they will be no more....How long do we live with natural dieasters,when they should be no more?When does the earth get's rejuvinated,at which time none of these will happen again?
 
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ebedmelech

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These two verses are not parallels unless you are now giving Jesus Christ the title of "Jerusalem"..

Correct me If Im wrong, but Jesus doesnt equal = Jerusalem.

Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

Since when is Jesus a "burdensome stone"???
The same way He is the "Stone of stumbling and the Rock of offense"! Don't read into the passage, let it say what it says. It doesn't say Jesus is Jerusalem...it says "I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for ALL people". Think about how that happens.
Isa 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Sounds like Jesus is the "Precious cornerstone" not the "burdensome stone you are talking about..
So why did Jesus say "My burden is easy" when He said "come unto Me". The point then is Jerusalem becomes a burden because it is NOT literal Jerusalem. Remember what Jesus said to the "woman at the well"? John 4:21:
21 Jesus *said to her, “Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.

Why did He say that? Why does Paul say in Galatians 4:26:
26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.?

Again Hebrews 12:22
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels,
23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,
24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.


Think about those passages.
It would be impossible for you to even try to attempt to refute the other prophecy, as its objectively unfulfilled.
Not in light of what the passage is REALLY saying in Zechariah 12:1-3. I think I provided that.

So, when did this verse happen?

Zec 12:10 "I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.
Remember what Peter said in his sermon at Pentecost...Acts 2
15 For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day;
16 but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:
17 ‘And it shall be in the last days,’ God says, ‘That I will pour forth of My Spirit on all mankind; And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions,...


So who pierced Christ? The Jews..
That's only ONE way of looking at it...Isaiah says "He was wounded for OUR transgressions..." that's everyone who comes to Christ.
When have the Jews looked on the "one they've pierced"
Every one of them have that has come to Christ...and yet there is coming a time when (as Paul says in Romans 11), that God will remove their blindness...and then they will see!
Never, because its a future prophecy, just as every prophecy that Ive given you thusfar.
Once again...I'll appeal to you to read Peter's Pentecost sermon...3000 Jews where saved that very day...who did they look on?

That prophecy worked then and in the future as I read it...and I read it for what it is "poetic prophecy"...it's loaded with poetry...this is why you cannot read it in the way you do. Allow the poetry to speak, search other scriptures, and let them reveal it.
 
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7sForDays

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Ebedmelech

These verses have nothing to do with with Pentecost.

Act 2:17 'In the last days,' God says, 'I will pour out My Spirit upon all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy. Your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams.


Zec 12:9 For on that day I will begin to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:10 "Then I will pour out a spirit of grace and prayer on the family of David and on the people of Jerusalem. They will look on Me whom they have pierced and mourn for Him as for an only son. They will grieve bitterly for Him as for a firstborn son who has died.
 
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MithrandirOlorin888

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I've always wanted to ask people who believe in Replacement Theology, why does Yeshua marry his Mother? Cause under that view the Woman of Revelation 12 and the Bride in 19 have to become the same woman.

Ruth and Genesis 22-24, both clearly present 2 symbolic Women, Israel and the Church, Sarah and Rebecca, Naomi and Ruth.
 
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7sForDays

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I've always wanted to ask people who believe in Replacement Theology, why does Yeshua marry his Mother? Cause under that view the Woman of Revelation 12 and the Bride in 19 have to become the same woman.

Ruth and Genesis 22-24, both clearly present 2 symbolic Women, Israel and the Church, Sarah and Rebecca, Naomi and Ruth.

:thumbsup:


Thou art wise brother..:clap:
 
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7sForDays

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7s,
you should really do a sub-study just on 'look on him whom they pierced' as used by the NT before you go any further.

Rev_1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
 
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parousia70

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I've always wanted to ask people who believe in Replacement Theology, why does Yeshua marry his Mother? Cause under that view the Woman of Revelation 12 and the Bride in 19 have to become the same woman.

Ruth and Genesis 22-24, both clearly present 2 symbolic Women, Israel and the Church, Sarah and Rebecca, Naomi and Ruth.


You should also ask why Yeshua marries Himself, since The Church is Both His Body and His Bride.
 
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