Youth Leader wearing revealing attire

[dysert]

You seem to have missed her attitude problem, which is infinitely more troubling than her poor taste.

The "attitude problem" is an interpretation of what happened by one poster. Not saying the poster deliberately misrepresented anything, but attitudes are judgment calls. Not for armchair quarterbacking.

 

[brinny]

Thanks for the birthday wishes, Brinny. And I hope to never have an error in judgment when you're around ;-).

LOL! Awwww c'mon, there's a difference between an error in judgment and a deliberate defiance that involves vulnerable young ones under one's care and protection and direction.

And you are most welcome.

 

[Paidiske]

Y'know, maybe I'm getting old, but I'm picturing a young woman here who's maybe 20 or so (like I was as a youth leader). And I'm thinking of her as almost just as much a "vulnerable young one" as the children in the youth group.

 

[dysert]

LOL! Awwww c'mon, there's a difference between an error in judgment and a deliberate defiance that involves vulnerable young ones under one's care and protection and direction.

And you are most welcome.

I think "deliberate defiance" is a judgment call -- and we weren't there.

 

[Nithavela]

Can I just say that the notion of "fire her, if god didn't want her to be fired, it wouldn't be a question in the first place" is brilliant?

And so versatile. By that account, you could justify shooting her in the back of the head. Just throw out the notion of free will and accountability, if god didn't want it to happen, god would have prevented it!

 

[brinny]

I think "deliberate defiance" is a judgment call -- and we weren't there.

Bad judgment from the gitgo with this youth leader, who reeked of disqualification and incompetence, and then chose a "thong" to come to a Church event, that had very clear directives about what to wear and not wear, and defied with an attitude any questioning about it?

This youth leader had already stepped over and trampled all kinds of boundaries, including trampling on these young girls and boys who looked up to her and "admired" her.

At this point it went beyond even this youth leader and came smack down to whoever was responsible for who put her in this position as youth leader.

This is just baaaad all the way around.

But mostly for the young boys and girls who were put aside, as all attention was revolving around this "youth leader".

The event was shot. It's the kids who were hung out to dry while this youth leader continued stealing their time, any fun this event might have been, and stealing all the attention away from these kids.

It was about these KIDS.

Not this youth leader.

 

[Nithavela]

Bad judgment from the gitgo with this youth leader, who reeked of disqualification and incompetence, and then chose a "thong" to come to a Church event, that had very clear directives about what to wear and not wear, and defied with an attitude any questioning about it?

This youth leader had already stepped over and trampled all kinds of boundaries, including trampling on these young girls and boys who looked up to her and "admired" her.

At this point it went beyond even this youth leader and came smack down to whoever was responsible for who put her in this position as youth leader.

This is just baaaad all the way around.

But mostly for the young boys and girls who were put aside, as all attention was revolving around this "youth leader".

The event was shot. It's the kids who were hung out to dry while this youth leader continued stealing their time, any fun this event might have been, and stealing all the attention away from these kids.

It was about these KIDS.

Not this youth leader.

She did?

 

[brinny]

She did?

Would you care to elaborate on what you mean by:

"She did?"

 

[Nithavela]

Would you care to elaborate on what you mean by:

"She did?"

Ruin the event.

I can't find any evidence in the OP that the event was ruined for the children. Only for those who took offense to the technically allowed but too revealing item of clothing.

 

[brinny]

Ruin the event.

I can't find any evidence in the OP that the event was ruined for the children. Only for those who took offense to the technically allowed but too revealing item of clothing.

The event was interrupted because of something that should not have been an issue, and that was this youth leader adhering to the dress code like everyone else, and then when confronted, was defiant about her blatant disregard of the dress code. This is not something a qualified, competent youth leader does.

Yeah, this little "drama" of defiance and incompetence would interrupt, and thus ruin, an event that should've gone smoothly for the kids if everyone was on board and in sync with something that should've never been at the event.

It was about the KIDS.

Not this "youth leader".

 

[pdudgeon]

in re-reading the account of the episode in the OP i was struck by two things;
1. the fact that this youth leader had only been at the church for a very short time--literally a few months-- before the incident.

2. she apparently had no prior contact with the church before she was hired.

So even though she's been a Christian for 6 years, those 6 years must have been spent in a different environment that the one to which she was hired.

It also reminded me of the questions about the non-Jewish converts in the early days of the Church, and what those people were faced with...
did they have to become Jews before they could be Christians,
should they be circumsized,
what about abstaining from pork, etc.

between the two sides here, each one had a responsibility to the other, and both had a responsibility to the kids.
as a result of this incident both sides failed each other equally, and probably left the kids confused.

So the elders need to get their act together before hiring anyone else for the church and do a heck of a lot more research and a heck of a lot less assuming that they are clearly understood than they did in this case.

But ultimately the responsibility for the failure here lies at their feet beause they were the ones in the know and with the responsibility to safeguard their young ones, yet they themselves failed to exercize good judgement when choosing a youth leader.

 

[pdudgeon]

The event was interrupted because of something that should not have been an issue, and that was this youth leader adhering to the dress code like everyone else, and then when confronted, was defiant about her blatant disregard of the dress code. This is not something a qualified, competent youth leader does.

Yeah, this little "drama" of defiance and incompetence would interrupt, and thus ruin, an event that should've gone smoothly for the kids if everyone was on board and in sync with something that should've never been at the event.

It was about the KIDS.

Not this "youth leader".

i agree that this was not something that a qualified, competent youth leader would do. But i hold the elders responsible for not hiring a qualified, competent youth leader in the first place.

 

[brinny]

in re-reading the account of the episode in the OP i was struck by two things;
1. the fact that this youth leader had only been at the church for a very short time--literally a few months-- before the incident.

2. she apparently had no prior contact with the church before she was hired.

So even though she's been a Christian for 6 years, those 6 years must have been spent in a different environment that the one to which she was hired.

It also reminded me of the questions about the non-Jewish converts in the early days of the Church, and what those people were faced with...
did they have to become Jews before they could be Christians,
should they be circumsized,
what about abstaining from pork, etc.

between the two sides here, each one had a responsibility to the other, and both had a responsibility to the kids.
as a result of this incident both sides failed each other equally, and probably left the kids confused.

So the elders need to get their act together before hiring anyone else for the church and do a heck of a lot more research and a heck of a lot less assuming that they are clearly understood than they did in this case.

But ultimately the responsibility for the failure here lies at their feet beause they were the ones in the know and with the responsibility to safeguard their young ones, yet they themselves failed to exercize good judgement when choosing a youth leader.

i agree.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

So even though she's been a Christian for 6 years, those 6 years must have been spent in a different environment that the one to which she was hired.

Assumption. She might have done it intentionally because she had her eye on one of the HS students.

So the elders need to get their act together before hiring anyone else for the church and do a heck of a lot more research and a heck of a lot less assuming that they are clearly understood than they did in this case.

Are you assuming that this church is an elder-lead?

 

[brinny]

i agree that this was not something that a qualified, competent youth leader would do. But i hold the elders responsible for not hiring a qualified, competent youth leader in the first place.

i agree.

It was clearly not a competent choice for a youth leader.

 

[brinny]

Assumption. She might have done it intentionally because she had her eye on one of the HS students.



Are you assuming that this church is an elder-lead?

She might have done it intentionally because she had her eye on one of the HS students.

The thought had crossed my mind.

There's something seriously amiss here.

 

[pdudgeon]

Assumption. She might have done it intentionally because she had her eye on one of the HS students.



Are you assuming that this church is an elder-lead?

i am assuming that it is a Protestant church.
as noted the OP is of a non-denominational faith, and those churches usually have either elders, deacons, trustees or an official board of some sort that has charge of the hiring.

 

[TurtleAnne]

Can there be different types of leadership? As well as a chain of leadership?

I think it is a very good thing to have some women in a church who can provide spiritual counseling to young women, because frankly there are some topics that most young women will not feel are appropriate to discuss with a man, even he is a Godly man, maybe especially if he is a Godly man, but those same young women might be able to open up more about their spiritual struggles in regards to temptations and whatnot if they could speak with a woman instead. It seems really no different from how a young man might be having some certain struggles that he would not feel are appropriate to discuss with a woman, no matter how old or faithful to God she has been or for how long.

But this also wouldn't necessarily have to mean that simultaneously, a woman in such a position has any ultimate authority over an entire demographic of the church, but rather she could run as a sort of encouraging buffer, i.e. she is there if young women need to discuss something with a woman, but then she (that woman) can go to receive further advice from a church elder, anonymously on behalf of the younger woman. So that it would ultimately be more of a service in helping younger women keep their faith and avoid sin, but not necessarily instructing those younger women on her own nor being presented as some sort of example for those young women.

As far as the bathing suit incident, I agree with some others here that the attitude as described, at least, seems to be more of an issue than the bathing suit itself, but then we also don't know how the topic was approached, either. Like did someone take her aside privately and explain to her the how/why as far as the bathing suit being potentially harmful to the youth, and then give her an opportunity to contemplate and agree, or was she ambushed with sheer judgement she was not expecting in front of others, perhaps causing her to become defensive in a panic? Etc. The details in this regard my help reveal whether or not she is still fit to serve as that sort of go-between for young women with sensitive concerns, and church elders, even if she does not yet have the maturity to be a leader in the sense of setting an example.

I just remember in the church of my childhood, there were youth leaders, but it was their job to be there for younger members who needed someone to talk to about spiritual struggles/advice when the youth were too uncomfortable going right to the pastor for whatever reasons, and there was a woman for the female youth and a man for the male youth, so that particularly sensitive topics were kept separate in that regard, out of respect for the youth, themselves, and also to help encourage their confidence in being open and honest about their struggles. The pastor ultimately gave advice, which was then passed down to the youth who needed the somewhat anonymous buffer in order to have the courage to open up about things.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Can there be different types of leadership? As well as a chain of leadership?

Yes. there are senior and junior positions. Depending on the size of the church, there can be many junior leaders and interns.

I think it is a very good thing to have some women in a church who can provide spiritual counseling to young women,

Yes. Of course; however, it is the older women who teach the younger women. If I read the OP correctly, I don't think that the young lady in question hadn't yet arrived.

Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. 4Then they can urge the younger women to love their husbands and children, 5to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God. (Titus 2:3-5))​

 

[jimmyjimmy]

i am assuming that it is a Protestant church.
as noted the OP is of a non-denominational faith, and those churches usually have either elders, deacons, trustees or an official board of some sort that has charge of the hiring.

Elder-lead churches are far different organizationally that the others, which you may not have been away of. Based on the story, I would be surprised if the church in question were lead by elders, but I could be wrong.