Youth Leader wearing revealing attire

[Darkhorse]

To me, the key factor is her attitude.

Different Christian churches in different parts of the country have widely different standards and expectations of appropriate swimwear. If she is new to your church, she may not have had a clear understanding of your churches' standards about "appropriate" and "inappropriate" one-piece suits.

Defending herself is not necessarily wrong. If done politely in a respectful way, she may simply be explaining why she saw nothing wrong with her suit. If it was done defiantly and legalistically ("you said 'one-piece' and it's one-piece"), then she is not a suitable leader, at least not yet.

 

[rjs330]

I just took a leadership course and this is a very interesting topic based upon what I learned. And believe it or not it really kind of reflects what the Bible teaches when you catch someone in a failure. The idea is to restore the person and not discipline them. As Galations teaches those who are spiritual should seek restoration in humility and not judgement. We all make mistakes and this young lady is young in her career with a lot to learn. You should help develop her not discipline her. At this stage of the game you could actually do more harm than good by dismissing her. Harm to her and harm to the girls. Take her under your wing and guide her maybe with more supervision from the senior pastor to help her succeed. Doing so could lead to great rewards in the future. As Christians we need to be helping people grow in the Lord not just slamming them when they fail.

Discipline comes from the root word disciple. Disciple her. Don't just discipline her.

 

[pdudgeon]

To me, the key factor is her attitude.

Different Christian churches in different parts of the country have widely different standards and expectations of appropriate swimwear. If she is new to your church, she may not have had a clear understanding of your churches'
standards about "appropriate" and "inappropriate" one-piece suits.

Defending herself is not necessarily wrong. If done politely in a respectful way, she may simply be explaining why she saw nothing wrong with her suit. If it was done defiantly and legalistically ("you said 'one-piece' and it's one-piece"), then she is not a suitable leader, at least not yet.

thank you for pointing out how important good communication is between leaders in a church setting.

 

[brinny]

We recently hired a new youth leader to our team a few months ago. She has been a believer for 6 years and seems to have zeal for her pursuit of the Lord and in time has formed great relationships with the girls in our group. Recently we had an annual indoor heated pool event for our youth group. The males are required to wear at least a tank top and the girls have to wear at least a one piece or a dark shirt over a two piece. The same rules obviously apply to the leaders. Quite to our surprise this particular leader obeyed in wearing a one piece but it was a thong in the back and extremely revealing so as to call unwanted attention and stumbling for the males and questions from the girls. She defended herself by stating she wasn't doing anything we weren't told to do which seemed like sliding by the rules because of lack of specifics. She doesn't seem to think her actions were wrong and unfortunately it seems we may have to remove her as a leader all because of this incident which will affect the girls she has already bonded with. We want to approach this situation with grace but at the same time truth and we don't wish for this to turn into a bigger situation than it needed to be. Unfortunately there is no excuse for someone in her position of leadership to wear such attire around people she is supposed to be ministering to and defending herself in such a subtly sneakyway if I may add. It came way out of left field and we just want to do what is right in God's eyes regarding her future here withus. Any advice?

You have nothing to apologize for.

Do what you need to do.

She SHOULD'VE apologized profusely and stated that she must've been SLEEP WALKING to do such a thing.

As it stands, to DEFEND herself and not "get" that she is dis-respecting and dis-regarding and violating those she has HUGE influence over, is a HUGE red flag.

A "thong"?

Seriously?

And THEN "defends" herself?

Seriously?

 

[Stillicidia]

fire her if she aint listening. If God wanted her there, her being fired would not be a question, there'd be no reason to fire her.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Thank you for responding, but could you be a bit more specific?

The leaders of the church, which children are part, is to be done by men. Elders, to be specific. Why would you entrust the should of your children to essentially another child?

 

[Nithavela]

Why in the world an untrained, and unqualified young woman is "leading" your children is beyond me.

The church, and her children, are to be lead by godly men, not young women.

Indeed, when has ever come any bad out of men of god caring for young boys and girls!

 

[rjs330]

fire her if she aint listening. If God wanted her there, her being fired would not be a question, there'd be no reason to fire her.

Wow, where's the grace? Aren't we supposed to be forgiving people? The next time you make a mistake at work maybe you should immediately be fired.

Jesus didn't do that to Peter. When Peter screwed up he discipled him. That's what this young lady needs.

Isn't the church here to show live compassion and forgiveness of Christ? When someone falls are we supposed to pick them up and help them recover?

There is no doubt she was wrong in this. But what does the Bible say? We are to help them in humility because we might do something just as stupid one day and need forgiveness and restoration.

I do hope they do not fire her and I hope she will realize what she did. She might actually come out if this stronger rather than be ruined towards Christianity cause they delt with her to harshly. Too often we eat our own.

 

[rjs330]

Indeed, when has ever come any bad out of men of god caring for young boys and girls!

Good point.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

We recently hired a new youth leader to our team a few months ago. She has been a believer for 6 years and seems to have zeal for her pursuit of the Lord and in time has formed great relationships with the girls in our group. Recently we had an annual indoor heated pool event for our youth group. The males are required to wear at least a tank top and the girls have to wear at least a one piece or a dark shirt over a two piece. The same rules obviously apply to the leaders. Quite to our surprise this particular leader obeyed in wearing a one piece but it was a thong in the back and extremely revealing so as to call unwanted attention and stumbling for the males and questions from the girls. She defended herself by stating she wasn't doing anything we weren't told to do which seemed like sliding by the rules because of lack of specifics. She doesn't seem to think her actions were wrong and unfortunately it seems we may have to remove her as a leader all because of this incident which will affect the girls she has already bonded with. We want to approach this situation with grace but at the same time truth and we don't wish for this to turn into a bigger situation than it needed to be. Unfortunately there is no excuse for someone in her position of leadership to wear such attire around people she is supposed to be ministering to and defending herself in such a subtly sneakyway if I may add. It came way out of left field and we just want to do what is right in God's eyes regarding her future here withus. Any advice?

You have a problem with this person. Why would a christian lady have this article of clothing in her wardrobe? The children all knew the rules and followed them, she did not.

The children saw what she was wearing and now they see that their leader flaunted the rules and is getting away with it. She needs to be removed from leadership so that the children understand that there is consequences for your personal decisions to violate the principle of the LAW. That is what Jesus taught. This is a teachable moment for the little darlings that have been entrusted to the church.

Based on what you have shared this lady appears to be unconverted, based on here action and words.

 

[brinny]

Wow, where's the grace? Aren't we supposed to be forgiving people? The next time you make a mistake at work maybe you should immediately be fired.

Jesus didn't do that to Peter. When Peter screwed up he discipled him. That's what this young lady needs.

Isn't the church here to show live compassion and forgiveness of Christ? When someone falls are we supposed to pick them up and help them recover?

There is no doubt she was wrong in this. But what does the Bible say? We are to help them in humility because we might do something just as stupid one day and need forgiveness and restoration.

I do hope they do not fire her and I hope she will realize what she did. She might actually come out if this stronger rather than be ruined towards Christianity cause they delt with her to harshly. Too often we eat our own.

There should be more concern for those she was "leading" and her attitude and behavior, than for this youth leader who didn't "get" why she had no right to

1. Defy the guidelines (a "thong"? Seriously?)
2. Then had the audacity to be defiant when approached about it
3. Was "clueless" why a "thong" would not be appropriate there.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

There should be more concern for those she was "leading" and her attitude and behavior, than for this youth leader who didn't "get" why she had no right to

1. Defy the guidelines (a "thong"? Seriously?)
2. Then had the audacity to be defiant when approached about it
3. Was "clueless" why a "thong" would not be appropriate there.

Amen! The definition of grace has been changed to mean license. Fire her and forgive her. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Paidiske]

I think pdudgeon hit the nail on the head.

I also think that, in some ways, the whole setting was asking for a problem along these lines. Why does the church have an annual event where it expects its leaders and young people to be swimming together, and then think that it will never have any issue with someone's ideas around appropriate attire?

(Put it this way: I would never put myself in a situation where I was ministering in my bathers, so I'm questioning why it's appropriate to expect someone else to walk that line without ever misjudging it).

Besides pdudgeon's advice on how to handle this young lady, I'd be seriously considering whether this event could be replaced with something else.

 

[brinny]

Amen! The definition of grace has been changed to mean license. Fire her and forgive her. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

I agree.

She might also want to be "repentant" as well.

This is the equivalent of allowing a wolf in sheep's clothing around yer most vulnerable young ones (predatory) and then being concerned about the "feelings" of the wolf?

The young ones need to be protected.

Not the predators.

 

[rjs330]

Amen! The definition of grace has been changed to mean license. Fire her and forgive her. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

Did Jesus fire and forgive Peter? No he didn't. Now I do agree that this girl needs to realize what she did was wrong. That's called repentance. If she steadfastly refused to acknowledge she was wrong and is stubborn about it then we have a different situation. But if she does recognize her fault then forgive her and disciple her. If she is stiff necked and refuses correction then it is probably time to let her go. But give her the opportunity to repent. Follow Jesus teachings on how it should look.

 

[brinny]

Did Jesus fire and forgive Peter? No he didn't. Now I do agree that this girl needs to realize what she did was wrong. That's called repentance. If she steadfastly refused to acknowledge she was wrong and is stubborn about it then we have a different situation. But if she does recognize her fault then forgive her and disciple her. If she is stiff necked and refuses correction then it is probably time to let her go. But give her the opportunity to repent. Follow Jesus teachings on how it should look.

Peter wasn't a "stumbling block" tempting deliberately his brothers and sisters like a wolf is sheep's clothing.

Jesus said this:

"It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones." ~Luke 17:2

 

[dysert]

IMO, firing her would be too extreme.

Someone brought up the point, why does she have such an outfit in her wardrobe anyway? Well, she does because there are a ton of young women who dress like that when they go swimming. There are others who have bikinis in their wardrobe (hence the rule for them to wear a dark shirt over the bikini).

Let's show some love, people. She dressed inappropriately for the occasion; big deal. Tell her a thong is not appropriate and move on. People make mistakes all the time. I'd hate to see the damage this would cause the youth (and perhaps the church) if she were to be fired for this one mistake.

 

[brinny]

IMO, firing her would be too extreme.

Someone brought up the point, why does she have such an outfit in her wardrobe anyway? Well, she does because there are a ton of young women who dress like that when they go swimming. There are others who have bikinis in their wardrobe (hence the rule for them to wear a dark shirt over the bikini).

Let's show some love, people. She dressed inappropriately for the occasion; big deal. Tell her a thong is not appropriate and move on. People make mistakes all the time. I'd hate to see the damage this would cause the youth (and perhaps the church) if she were to be fired for this one mistake.

I disagree.

But regardless, Happy Birthday

 

[jimmyjimmy]

IMO, firing her would be too extreme.

Someone brought up the point, why does she have such an outfit in her wardrobe anyway? Well, she does because there are a ton of young women who dress like that when they go swimming. There are others who have bikinis in their wardrobe (hence the rule for them to wear a dark shirt over the bikini).

Let's show some love, people. She dressed inappropriately for the occasion; big deal. Tell her a thong is not appropriate and move on. People make mistakes all the time. I'd hate to see the damage this would cause the youth (and perhaps the church) if she were to be fired for this one mistake.

You seem to have missed her attitude problem, which is infinitely more troubling than her poor taste.

 

[dysert]

I disagree.

But regardless, Happy Birthday

Thanks for the birthday wishes, Brinny. And I hope to never have an error in judgment when you're around ;-).