• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Deus Vult!

Active Member
Dec 18, 2019
249
131
34
Heavenly Jerusalem
✟127,763.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married

Where controversy starts is with pride. You think good feelings come from the Holy Spirit alone? Foolishness. Satan would certainly back off of his victim he if thought that in so doing the person would still not find the true Faith. The antidote to this venom is the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. But only those who seek the truth will find her. Only the humble can find her. The prideful Catholic loses his Faith while the humble protestant takes his place.
 
Upvote 0

Oldmantook

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2017
3,633
1,526
65
USA
✟106,673.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Your view is heretical. Show me a single verse that states the seal of the Holy Spirit is permanent and cannot be broken. You presume too much. Shall I wait for your answer? The clock is ticking.
 
Reactions: Deus Vult!
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
24,649
9,262
up there
✟380,673.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Jesus said He would send the HS to help those on their chosen path of the Kingdom. That spirit would nudge them back on course if they were heading for the weeds if their allegiance was strong enough (lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil) .. It was not there to lead anyone to the Kingdom but to aide those who had made the choice by discerning which was the better way... the will of God vs the will of man. Nudge those on the right path, not set up roads blocks and force them down it never to let them go. Choice remains until the end..
 
Upvote 0

Kenny'sID

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 28, 2016
18,194
6,997
71
USA
✟585,424.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
There are NO verses in the Bible, both Testaments included... that say Jesus, once in you, will leave you if you are a bad Christian,

Then you haven't read this, where Jesus himself not only says/warns we will lose salvation if we don't do good, but that we will be condemned.

John 5:28-29 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."
 
Reactions: timothyu
Upvote 0

Phil W

Well-Known Member
Apr 15, 2019
3,187
676
71
Mesa, Az
✟82,350.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
As I wrote, "they are inseparable".
Without her faith there would have been no saving.

Inseparable.

You are equating faith with salvation.
Again, inseparable.
No faith, no salvation.


Can you sum that up with one sentence?
What is your point?
 
Reactions: Deus Vult!
Upvote 0

Blade

Veteran
Site Supporter
Dec 29, 2002
8,175
4,001
USA
✟654,188.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married

Hey Godsgrace. Awesome name. Can I ask you when did you fall in love with Christ? For my self I was 9 or so and went up front.. fell on my knees could not stop crying. And many many years had passed before I loved Him. Yet in all that time I was saved. I was not keeping His word. See I can only speak for me. When Christ said it to them how long had they been with Him? What John 14? So some years had passed. I can't find where we have to love him to be saved. To believe the Father sent Him in the flesh died on the cross for the worlds sin. Was buried. Rose the 3rd day is the only way to the Father.

For me to NOW read 1st Cor 13 on what LOVE really is and thats how GOD is. Then even to this day I am loving Him like that? How can I love some one I never knew never met? You can't. He does the holy Spirit convict our heart to repent we see we need Him.

If you asked me ..I am saved. I am living forever right now. Can I lose it? A yeah I can't see that happening. I am not saved based on some moment in time that I might do in the flesh. He does not see the flesh but the heart. I am living for ever. Do I have to repent YES! But there is no sin held aginst me? Nope none. There is no sin I do or forget to repent for that will keep me from Heaven. I get in through Christ. I AM righteous because HIM not what I will ever do.

And do I need to do good works? YES! Why? I don't know.. no I don't. Its just in me.. that LOVES to do anything everything that pleases HIM! You know this.. I can see it in just what you wrote. For some they can't see this. Were talking about the blood of a GOD and I have never read where ANYONE is blotted out of the lambs book. I always ME WONDERING LOL about the book of life if thats not just man right now alive. Well David said once about how the unrighteous should not be written in the book of life "Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous." With the righteous? Then it can start to for me make sence why some people just die. Name got blotted out?

Please please remember its just a THOUGHT I had..its not written so I would never run or teach that.. I am now just chatting with you. Sorry about my writing. Well hard at times for me to just be clear. Bless you so much in Jesus name
 
Upvote 0

Oldmantook

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2017
3,633
1,526
65
USA
✟106,673.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Not to get off-topic but out of curiosity don't you think this passage states that there will be one resurrection [a time] when ALL [both the good and the evil persons] will rise to be judged? This passage parallels Acts 24:15 where it also states that "there shall be A RESURRECTION of the dead, BOTH of the just and unjust." A singular resurrection of both.

I think these two passages contradict the notion that at his second coming (or rapture) only the dead in Christ are raised first, followed by those in Christ who are alive at His coming. Separately, the wicked/unsaved dead are not resurrected until the time of the great white throne is what is often taught. I don't think these 2 passages square with what is popularly believed.
 
Reactions: Kenny'sID
Upvote 0

Kenny'sID

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 28, 2016
18,194
6,997
71
USA
✟585,424.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single

Not something I had considered, but I think your view on the scripture could very possibly be the case, if not likely.
 
Upvote 0

GodsGrace101

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 17, 2018
6,713
2,297
Tuscany
✟255,207.00
Country
Italy
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I was about 28. Jesus became as real to me as any other person,,,even though I had know about Him all my life. I'd say that in my case the salvation and the love went hand in hand and happened at the same time.

I also believe you were saved at the age of 9...this is when you turned to God.
Our sins are forgiven...otherwise Jesus died in vain if we trust in Him and yet are lost.

John 14:15 does say that if we love Him we will follow His commandments..which, BTW, are not burdensome.
1 John 5:13

Don't you feel like you love Jesus for what He did for you?
I've never encountered your line of reasoning before and am not sure I understand. Love can be defined in many ways...

1 Corinthians 13 is explaining what love DOES and how it IS.
It is not explaining how love FEELS. It is for us and how we are to behave...
It's not really about how you are to love God. As I said, we can understand love in different ways...God is to be loved with an Agape love.

Agape Love in the Bible
One important aspect of agape love is that it extends beyond emotions. It's much more than a feeling or sentiment. Agape love is active. It demonstrates love through actions.


This well-known Bible verse is the perfect example of agape love expressed through actions. The all-encompassing love of God for the entire human race caused him to send his son, Jesus Christ, to die and, thus, save every person who would believe in him:


For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16, ESV)

Another meaning of agape in the Bible was "love feast," a common meal in the early church expressing Christian brotherhood and fellowship:


These are hidden reefs at your love feasts, as they feast with you without fear, shepherds feeding themselves; waterless clouds, swept along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted; (Jude 12, ESV)

Jesus told his followers to love one another in the same way sacrificial way he loved them. This command was new because it demanded a new kind of love, a love like his own: agape love. What would be the outcome of this kind of love? People would be able to recognize them as Jesus’ disciples because of their mutual love:

source: Agape: What Does the Bible Say About the Highest Form of Love?




A person does not become lost because of something he does "one moment in time". If it's faith that saves us...then it's loss of that faith in God that would cause us to become lost.

There are many verses in the bible that tell us that we will be saved IF we CONTINUE in our faith. This is a condition...We DO have to meet God's conditions in order to be saved.
For instance...
Colossians 1:23
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.


Yes, you're right of course. We do for God because we love Him for what HE did for US. Because we want to since we are His children.

Revelation 3:5 does speak about being blotted out of the book of Life: however, I firmly believe this will not happen as long as we trust in Jesus for our salvation and ask His forgiveness when we sin.
1 John 1:9
9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Please please remember its just a THOUGHT I had..its not written so I would never run or teach that.. I am now just chatting with you. Sorry about my writing. Well hard at times for me to just be clear. Bless you so much in Jesus name
I think you're very clear.
If you don't agree with anything I've posted...we are still brothers in Christ.
(but I am a girl, BTW).
 
Upvote 0

d taylor

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2018
13,761
5,822
60
Mississippi
✟321,979.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single

The cross gives Eternal Life to no one. The cross was the means that Jesus took away the sin of the world making every person eligible to receive Eternal Life. Not that every one will receive Eternal Life because, there is one condition (and only one) to receive the gift of Gods Eternal Life.

But back to the cross, the cross and resurrection is one of of the miracles that Jesus did. That is a witness (a major witness) to the fact that Jesus is who He said He was. And that is, He is the only begotten/unique Son of God the promised Messiah from Old Testament prophecies.

So when a person understands and believes that Jesus is the promised Messiah. Then to receive Eternal Life they must believe, trust, have faith in Jesus for the Gift of His Eternal Life. Eternal Life is found in The promised Messiah and nowhere else.

See many do believe that Jesus is the Messiah, but that is where they stop. They then, do not look to the Messiah for Eternal Life. They look back to themselves and actions that they have done or doing. That could be repenting, baptism, obedience, confessing or confession of Christ, inviting Jesus into their heart, praying a sinners prayer, walking a church isle, joining a church, keeping the commandments, etc..

But never looking to and trusting in The Messiah for Eternal Life they have a life full of works.

*************************************

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”
 
Upvote 0

GodsGrace101

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 17, 2018
6,713
2,297
Tuscany
✟255,207.00
Country
Italy
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
They certainly were ungodly men...
but can you tell us why?

Jude 1-4
1Jude, a bond-servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James,
To those who are the called, beloved in God the Father, and kept for Jesus Christ: 2May mercy and peace and love be multiplied to you.

3Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints. 4For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

 
Upvote 0

GodsGrace101

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 17, 2018
6,713
2,297
Tuscany
✟255,207.00
Country
Italy
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Belief is found in the promised Messiah and nowhere else.
Correct.
But if you believe in Jesus,,,do you not want to follow His commands?

You said that we look to ourselves for salvation and then gave examples.
Didn't Jesus say to do these things you refer to?

Repent:
Mathew 4:17
"Repent for the Kingdom of God is near".


Baptism:
Mathew 28:19
"..Baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit".


Obedience:
Luke 6:46

"Why do you call me LORD, LORD, and do not what I tell you?"


Confessing:
John 20:23
"If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven.."


Inviting Jesus into your heart:
Revelation 3:20

"Behold, I stand at the door and knock, If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come into him.."

Keeping the Commandments:
John 14:15

"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."


I'm hoping I misunderstood your post.....
 
Upvote 0

JacksBratt

Searching for Truth
Site Supporter
Jul 5, 2014
16,294
6,495
63
✟596,843.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
We obviously become new creatures when we are saved. It would be great if we all started to care for the poor, and other such things.

However, for some, being saved and becoming a new creature means that they have less trouble getting out of bed, facing the world, dealing with a abusive spouse, turning from a life of anger and violence.. dealing with depression or some other mental illness.

People that think that all Christians should be beaming servants... have never grasped the concept that we all face different demons. Not to mention that many "non-christians" are "beaming servants too.. They expect to make it to heaven with their own works...

No, not all Christians are "noticeable" in their behavior and action. We, as mere men and women cannot judge the heart... Only God.
 
Reactions: GodsGrace101
Upvote 0

d taylor

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2018
13,761
5,822
60
Mississippi
✟321,979.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single

A believer should (and that is a main word Should) try to live a life like Christ. But living a life trying to emulate Christ does not give a believer Eternal Life.

That life lived like Christ is applied to their rewards (not to their salvation) given by The Messiah in the next part of their life. At the judgment seat of Christ.
 
Upvote 0

GodsGrace101

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 17, 2018
6,713
2,297
Tuscany
✟255,207.00
Country
Italy
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The N.T. does speak about rewards....but the reward we're all waiting for is heaven...not a reward.

John speaks about this:
1 John 2:17
17The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.


Whoever does the will of God lives forever.

1 John 5:13
13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.


To believe in the Son is to obey the Son...

John 3:36
36“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”


He that does not obey will have the wrath of God abide on him.

Revelation 22:12
12“Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.


2 Corinthians 5:10 repeats the above except it is Paul saying it.

Other verses speak of the Crown of Glory or the Crown of Life....
These refer to heaven.
Rev 2:10
James 1:12

Since the N.T. teaches possible loss of faith,,,I'd say that to insist that all verses about rewards is for all would be a mistake.

Rewards will go to those that have held fast, continued in the faith, and are going to heaven.

 
Reactions: Phil W
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
24,649
9,262
up there
✟380,673.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
The N.T. does speak about rewards....but the reward we're all waiting for is heaven...not a reward.
God already gave us the Kingdom out of Heaven. We must accept it over and above the kingdoms of man. Our place in it, from within the walls to the furthest reaches, is determined by our faithfulness in fulfilling His commandments.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: GodsGrace101
Upvote 0

Kenny'sID

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 28, 2016
18,194
6,997
71
USA
✟585,424.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
DeepWater isn't much for even answering to posts that turn his claims upside down but here it is just the same. Refute it or forever hold your peace, and know people can and do give up their salvation all the time. So, no, as nice as that might be, you don't get to keep your salvation if you don't listen to Christ and do as he says.

There are NO verses in the Bible, both testaments included, that say you can fall out of Christ, or become disconnected from Christ. (now heretics /Legalist will lie about this, but Jesus didn't.)

Of course we can fall away, and it isn't the "Legalist" that are "lying about this"...I'll show you:

1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils

Hebrews 3:12-19 - Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Revelation 2:4-5 - Nevertheless I have [somewhat] against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. (Read More...)

19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Mathew 13: 20The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.


Now show us scripture that states Jesus will remain with us if we depart from the faith or go back to the ways of the world, back to living in sin. There is no verse that says that.

And there is a reason for that...

He won't.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: GodsGrace101
Upvote 0