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My honest belief is that while illegal immigrants are breaking our laws, they are in fact, human beings. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember Moses and the Israelites ever going through customs or immigration on their Exodus. Yes, they are illegal immigrants, but that doesn't mean that they are objects. And it's not just Mexican immigrants, but also alot of other nationalities as well.
They are breaking US Law and constantly breaking US law
Or are you such a person that laws are of no use.
Of course everybody uses this argument. And to the extend that you entertain the idea of "property", various claimants to the same property will challenge that.
If you step into your neighbors car, does it make it yours? Maybe after you have driven it for 1 year, 2 years, 10 years???
With respect to global territory, there is no "title insurance". So, whoever is the strongest can wrestle and bully the others out of it. So, who gives you the right to say "this is my land" and you cannot come here? Answer: no higher authority does so. (unless you recognize the UN as higher authority; but then you would also have to submit to their free circulation of people principle and allow the immigrants....)
The bottom line is: you apply your own "law" to a territory of your own (one sided) claims so as to exclude others to come there. Hence the issue of illegal immigration.
Now, we as christians are to obey the law of civil authorities. But whether those laws are right is quite another matter....
They broke all existing laws by definition as they repudiated the existing government.The US was not breaking any immrigration laws when they decided to fight for the freedom of the country.
Oh, I see, I'm supposed to be perfect, walk on water and kiss the feet of a kid who has 0 life experience, but wants to preach about socialized citizenship adn socialized medicine and everything that is against the constitution that I fought and bled for?
Sorry, not going to happen. He's still living at home with mommy and daddy taking care of him. So excuse me if I dont' take his position on something this complex seriously based on a couple of summers working along side illegal immigrants.
He may be young and g enuine, but he's completely naive in this matter...so yes, I will laugh if I feel like it. I've earned that.
laughter is about as soft as my answers get on this issue. again...it's our country...what do you truly care?"Not being perfect" is not an excuse to commit sin by straight out laughing at someone who's trying to challenge you to think and argue maybe in an even better way for your position.
that constitution is the framework for the laws that are being broken by these illegal immigrants, making it completely applicable.And if you want to think and argue in a distinctively Christian way about these matters, then sorry, but simply referring to your constitution is not a good argument, however much it might stand for good things. Your constitution was largely drawn up by enlightment-influenced believers in 'monotheism' rather than evangelical/'biblical' Christians. Even 8 of the signatories were professing free masons. Jefferson refuted the miracles of Christ. Get your arguments rather from the Bible. Someone here tried to argue how Abraham, Moses and many many other Biblical characters were strangers in a strange land and other things, and that - as an illumination from the Bible, remembering that we are on a Christian forum - was already twice as weighty as any vague reference to any secular constitution, whether that of Finland or of the United States.
Argument against one's personality.
yeah...I wouldCan't you really come up with anything better and more mature? Would you say the very same things and laugh the same belitteling laughs in an face-to-face encounter?
You have not earned one single nasty, belitteling laugh at anyone here! You hear me??
You are continuously sinning by being arrogant, mean, and belitteling toward a young guy. Next time I see you acting in the same way, I'll seriously think about reporting you. For God's sake, you're a super moderator and you're just laughing at people here and trying to justify it! Wake up!
laughter is about as soft as my answers get on this issue. again...it's our country...what do you truly care?
that constitution is the framework for the laws that are being broken by these illegal immigrants, making it completely applicable.
yeah...I would
I've worn the uniform of my country, I've bled and been broken for my country and it's constitution, don't you dare tell me what I have and haven't earned the right to do in defense of my country and it's constitution.
I'm not so sure.Your number 5 is off dearie.
A big majority of the land that was annexed into America that was SW was Texas and it wasn't stolen from them.
Come to think of it so is your 2. Revolution for the betterment of it's people is NOT stealing.
laughter is about as soft as my answers get on this issue. again...it's our country...what do you truly care?
that constitution is the framework for the laws that are being broken by these illegal immigrants, making it completely applicable.
I've worn the uniform of my country, I've bled and been broken for my country and it's constitution, don't you dare tell me what I have and haven't earned the right to do in defense of my country and it's constitution.
It says, quite frankly, that their government sucks.
I have very mixed emotions & thoughts about this whole Mexican Immigration problem (we all might as well be honest enough to admit that when we say "Illegal Immigrants" everyone is talking about Mexicans). For many years, I lived in a community in Minnesota that was 30-35% Mexican. They came because of a huge packing plant that paid good wages and gave good benefits.
Most of us cannot imagine the horrors many of our Mexican neighbors have had to endure - on both sides of the border. Extortion, forced prostitution, abject poverty, you name it... Many of them are desperate, calloused people. On one level, they've almost been forced to cheat, lie and steal. Still, most of them are very family-centered people, and very religious. And I found most of them to be extremely warm and friendly.
But many of the Mexicans have brought a "unique" set of problems with them. Alcohol is a huge problem - and many Mexicans run into all kinds of trouble with the law, due to driving while drunk. They also tend to get into a lot of fights, mostly while drunk. In addition, the men tend to be very "macho", and are very overt in their sexual advances toward women. This does not go over very big when it's young teen girls that they're hitting on, or "regular" white women.
That's just the tip of the iceberg, as I see it. I don't know what all the answers are. But I do know that they won't be found unless we start being honest about what the PROBLEMS are.
By the way, I hear that Dolt McCoy's back-up is a guy named Hector "Poncho" Gonzalez. Is this true?
You are blessed with wisdom.
God bless you.
carey
In reality, Islam is no less or more violent than any other religious system. Islam simply says "yes, war is good", while in Christianity, churches say "whatever your nation does is good" which in reality has no difference.
There are schools of Islamic thought (wahhabism) that are violent, just as their are Christian schools of thought that seek to take over the world (Dominionism). I'm not saying Islam is flowers and bunnies. I'm saying that neither is any other religion.
The best way to end that is to destroy their culture. Not by force of arms, but by exporting American goods and ideals, and by basically, appealing to their governments desire to gain power. Instead of trying to get Iran to stop their nuke program, we should go in, help them build a nuclear power grid, and at the same time, flood their economy with American goods. The best way to kill the insurgency isn't to kill the insurgent. It's to make the insurgent's citizen fans not like him anymore, and to even see him as legitimate threat to their way of life.
Well, the latter worked awfully well with China.Well, you could argue that there are 'true' schools within each religious system and also that there are schools that are more or less flawed and deviant from the original, orthodox ones. Some could argue that dominionism/theonomy belongs to the catogory of seriously flawed schools within Christianity and thus does not represent 'true Christianity' at all. Someone could also argue that the more 'peaceful' schools within Islam don't represent the original faith of Mohammed, while some could also argue counterwise. You get my point?
Also, I don't believe the "whatever your nation does is good" is a very common way of thinking within the Christian church worldwide, not even in America..?
Are you... serious about this idea of 'inculturation'...??
well...for starters this topic isn't about the kingdom of heaven, it's about america and a problem with illegal activity.We belong to the same 'country', namely the Kingdom of Heaven. I do care when I see a Christian acting in a condescending manner toward another, younger Christian.
it is not "belittling" to point out that someone so young, who condones and illegal activity is both naive and wrong.Once again, my primary concern is not so much the actual question of the OP. I realize complexity of that issue and how I can't have the same insight on it as the Americans here.
I have two concerns:
1) Blitteling attitude and conduct is always a sin that should be repented of.
2) I very much respect the constitution of my own country, however I don't hold it as some kind of 'sacred' document. I appreciate the fact that you respect the constitution of your country, too. Do you hold the constitution of the United States as a 'sacred' document, a one that could be assigned a divine authority?
It's called "Freedom of Speech" protected by the 1st ammendment. As for the rest...ya just wouldn't get it ......and still, after all this, the Bible says clearly that Jesus Christ should be your one and only 'boast'. I respect how you've served your country that way. My grandfather also fought in two wars against the Soviet Union, and we prevailed against such a giant of an opponent. He and many others fought for this country, its independence and its constitution. However, he was a humble man and I never heard him laughing in a nasty manner at anyone who had a differing opinion from his.
You mots certainly have earned your right to defend your country and its constitution, but you most certainly have not - should I say, in the name of Jesus Christ - earned a right to be proud and boastful about it and ridicule and laugh at those that challenge you into a more in-depth argument with their different viewpoints.
well...for starters this topic isn't about the kingdom of heaven, it's about america and a problem with illegal activity.
it is not "belittling" to point out that someone so young, who condones and illegal activity is both naive and wrong.
It's called "Freedom of Speech" protected by the 1st ammendment.
As for the rest...ya just wouldn't get it ...
Yeah.. but it didn't work that well with Christian mission efforts in Africa, for example. The gospel began to spread rapidly in Africa only after its propagation was passed over to the local Christians. And now we see the result: the geographical focus of the Church has already shifted to the southern continents, Africa as well as Asia and Latin America.Well, the latter worked awfully well with China.
Seems to me the Bible has some pretty clear statements to make about the way we should treat the alien and the foreigner in "our" land.
Seems to me the American constitution and law is being used to justify some pretty unBiblical attitudes to, and treatment of, aliens and foreigners in America.
Seems to me that American Christians would be doing the worldwide body of Christ a great service if instead of kicking up a fuss about "illegal immigrants", they instead kicked up a fuss about the law that renders them illegal, and meanwhile got on with treating these "illegal immigrants" with the dignity and respect which befits people who were created in the image of the God who died for them.
I hope that's not too much to ask.
David.
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