Your Thoughts on Creation & Evolution

[Ringo84]

since we cant see it happen (its take millions of years) its not a fact.

2) we have many evidence against it, as you can see in my signature link.

Oh OK. Well, we didn't see creation happen either. Guess that didn't happen. And my conception? Didn't see it, so it didn't happen.

Good to know that we have to personally see something for it to have existed in the first place.
Ringo

 

[Kenny'sID]

Oh OK. Well, we didn't see creation happen either.

Was anyone here trying to prove creation? There's no reason why they would.

That's not the subject, just something to throw around now that things have gone haywire here. More attempts at blaming the opposition.

Does no one take responsibility anymore?

 

[Jimmy D]

Where did I say there was one. Please don't waste our time with not thought out comments that accuse where there is nothing to accuse of. Read everything carefully before you speak. Now what did I say exactly?

Well, you did type....

"I also expected the fact you go on assumptions all to often, and NOT facts, and then you have the nerve to call the conclusions drawn from those assumptions, fact."

.....in response to Speedy's post. There was no accusation or comment in my post, just a straight forward question, if you weren't suggesting that there were assumption in Speedy's post why mention them, twice? Why not respond to what he typed?


Still, if you're going to act like a child go ahead, I'm not interested in your games.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Well, you did type....

"I also expected the fact you go on assumptions all to often, and NOT facts, and then you have the nerve to call the conclusions drawn from those assumptions, fact."

.....in response to Speedy's post. There was no accusation or comment in my post, just a straight forward question, if you weren't suggesting that there were assumption in Speedy's post why mention them, twice? Why not respond to what he typed?


Still, if you're going to act like a child go ahead, I'm not interested in your games.

LOL!

Thee were no games, I simply did not say what you made things out to be...but wait, there are games and you are the one playing them so go ahead and pretend it was me, I certainly expect that with most present company, how could I not?

You're all living up to my expectations today.

 

[Jimmy D]

I've never ignored anyone on any board ever, it's almost creepy to me to even consider it, but I do get that sometimes it a bit tough to deal with reality

So you're just trolling then when you ask for proof of scientific theories, is that it? Because it's been explained repeatedly why such a request is unreasonable.

Looking back I can't really see anything that you contribute to these threads apart from demanding "proof" and then making pedantic, whiny posts like the quote below when people try and correct you.

Don't want to learn? lol, You people never quit with the blaming others for your short comings. I was very willing to learn from the start here, go look for yourself, it's all right there in at least fairly discernible english...geez, but things fell apart so quickly, running my teacher off, that we didn't get anywhere, yet you are seriously blaming that on me?

 

[Jimmy D]

LOL!

Thee were no games, I simply did not say what you made things out to be...but wait, there are games and you are the one playing them so go ahead and pretend it was me, I certainly expect that with most present company, how could I not?

You're all living up to my expectations today.

So what assumptions were you mentioning?

 

[Jimmy D]

I was very willing to learn from the start here, go look for yourself,

First post:

Personally I barely bother with good Fairy Tales, the bad/uninteresting ones, at least aside from humoring some on CF and such, don't do a thing for me so I don't bother.

Would you read/study up on the prospect Micky Mouse created the universe? Of course you wouldn't, so there ya' go.

LOL

 

[Kenny'sID]

So you're just trolling then when you ask for proof of scientific theories, is that it? Because it's been explained repeatedly why such a request is unreasonable.

So now were jumping back on the "Theory" bandwagon". Wish you all would make up your minds, I never claimed it wasn't a theory, and am arguing with those who think it's a fact.

I can call anything a theory, and even back it up with nonsense, but that will never make it a fact, not to mention the embarrassment for attempting to.

 

[Kenny'sID]

First post:


LOL

You misunderstood, from the start of Speedys challenge, I assumed by what I'd posted you'd get that but I do understand also some of us need a little extra help, and I hope that helps.

 

[Jimmy D]

So now were jumping back on the "Theory" bandwagon". Wish you all would make up your minds, I never claimed it wasn't a theory, and am arguing with those who think it's a fact.

I can call anything a theory, and even back it up with nonsense, but that will never make it a fact, not to mention the embarrassment for attempting to.

So you don't understand that a theory explains facts? Are you saying that this hasn't been explained to you?

 

[USincognito]

First post:


LOL

That's some serious dishonesty going on there.

 

[AnotherAtheist]

sure. we have no evidence that a creature can change into another different creature. we both agree on that. right? so the excuse is that its take millions of years. so first: its just a belief and not a fact. and second: its non scientific since we cant falsy it.

First, your language is misleading. You say 'no creature can change into another different creature.' This is ambiguous as 'creature' usually means an individual not a species, or population.

Clearly individuals do not evolve. Species may evolve, but the fundamental unit of evolution is a population. But, that doesn't match what you say either.

The problem with discussing things with you is that you aren't putting forward a clear argument. Therefore I need to paraphrase out your error. However, that's difficult here as you are even more muddled than usual. I have no confidence that I understand what it is that you are trying to say

Do you mean to claim that a species cannot arise from a parent species by speciation? If not, what?

 

[Kenny'sID]

So you don't understand that a theory explains facts? Are you saying that this hasn't been explained to you?

So we're back to evolution being a fact again or not?

Did you have Waffles for breakfast?

 

[Jimmy D]

So we're back to evolution being a fact again or not?

Did you have Waffles for breakfast?

Back to the goading?

Am I wrong though? What is the definition of a scientific theory?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Back to the goading?

Am I wrong though? What is the definition of a scientific theory?

If you're going to consider my honest replies as goading, the we'd best call it quits.

Try confusing the issues with someone else.

 

[Ophiolite]

Evolutionary theory is as much a religion as Christianity is... both require faith to understand the unseen.

Every sentence in your post contains assertions and none of them even attempt to address the offer I made in my previous post. I'll do you the courtesy of addressing all of your points and hope that you will reciprocate by specifying what you consider to be the biggest single weakness in evolutionary theory, not - as you have done here - spouting an emotive litany of strawmen, misinterpretations and ignorance.

I base my acceptance of evolutionary theory upon evidence. For me, specifically, the evidence was largely palaeontological. The material I studied in the lab, in museum collections and in the field, were best explained by evolution. Further evidence from genetics, zoology, botany, microbiology, comparative anatomy, etc merely confirmed what I was already persuaded of by the fossil evidence. Faith was not involved, because faith is not required when the evidence sits up and screams at you.

Perhaps you would like to tell me exactly where faith comes into my broad acceptance of current evolutionary theory?

What is the most galling is this premise that evolution is scientific fact (I know, only theories) that cannot be questioned.

Balderdash!
1. Yes, is does stand repeating, theory - just as high as it gets in science.
2. Of course evolution can be questioned. Aspects of if are questioned many times every day in journals, in colliquia, debates with colleagues, etc. However, these questions are based upon evidence: new evidence, or conflicting evidence, or missing evidence.
3. What you cannot do is question evolution scientifically without having an evidential basis on which to do so. Where is your evidential basis for questioning it.

. I find the usurping of evolutionary science in every level of academia over creation science to be a deliberate attack on God.

1. Creation science is a joke. Point me to a single instance where creation science has actually investigated the creation in a scientific manner. Creation science appears to consist of incompetent attempts to critique evolutionary theory on the mistaken and illogical belief that if evolution is disproven the Biblical creation must be true.
2. How do you account for the thousands of Christian scientists who are engage wholeheartedly in evolution research?
3. The majority of the other, non-Christian scientists, are unconcerned with God, god, or gods, or take their guidance from a different deity.

Ask Dawkins or Degrasse their opinions of faith and you will find mockery to the extreme.

Dawkins is an individual I consider, in his approach to be an umitigated <expletive self-censored>. Degrasse is mainly known in the UK for his guest appearance on The Big Bang Theory, so I cannot comment on him. You are fully entitled to your negative view of Dawkins' version of aggressive atheism.

It reminds me of the newest phenomenon happening in our "higher" centers of learning at the moment... namely inclusion and acceptance of anything except what they don't agree with... liberalism without borders.

Irrelevant. We are discussing evolution, not your disgruntlement with other aspects of modern life.

. It's an echo chamber mentality that doesn't allow reasoned discussion and even sees any opposition as bigoted, racist, phobic in some way or another, even though these beliefs make up the minority opinion in society... at least for the moment..

I made a genuine attempt to achieve some kind of understanding if not agreement by focusing in, initially, on what you think is the single biggest weakness in evolutionary theory. Instead you repsond with this rant that reveals your passion and deep feeling on the matter, but does nothing to make me think you want a serious conversation.

Just as evolution was at one time the minority position among academics, through the successive push for creationism and God to removed from our schools, it has claimed defacto eminence through it's campaign of subversion and exclusion.

More passion. I get your pain. Now will I also get your view of what is the biggest single weakness in evolutionary theory?

 

[Jimmy D]

If you're going to consider my honest replies as goading, the we'd best call it quits.

Try confusing the issues with someone else.

No, you suggested that I was “waffling” and backtracking. Now you’re accusing me of confusing the issue.

I’ll try again, hopefully you will answer honestly.

Was I wrong in what I said, can you point out how my definition was incorrect?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Was I wrong in what I said, can you point out how my definition was incorrect?

I can't really make sense of you, your trying to hover between theory and fact and you just can't do that, it's one way or the other.

Not sure what you mean by wrong on what you said. Is that something that's relative to the argument, or some type of "look at me I'm right sometimes, you are wrong, and you need to acknowledge that" thing, something personal you seem to need?

Tell you what, instead of my going back to see what you're talking about because it is likely a complete waste of time, I'll concede to whatever it is and hopefully that will help us both out...you, for what you seem to need, and me so I don't have to spend the time looking it up....deal?

If so, yeah, you're right.

 

[Speedwell]

I can't really make sense of you, your trying to hover between theory and fact and you just can't do that, it's on me or another.

Not sure what you mean by wrong on what you said. Is that something that's relative to the argument, or some type of "look at me I'm right sometimes, you are wrong, and you need to acknowledge that" thing, something personal you seem to need?

Tell you what, instead of my going back to see what you're talking about because it is likely a complete waste of time, I'll concede to whatever it is and hopefully that will help us both out...you, for what you seem to need, and me so I don't have to spend the time looking it up....deal?

If so, yeah, you're right.

It won't work. I was trying to lead you very gently to the point where I could present you with evidence of one single basic part of the theory--random variation--and you started going on about how it was "funny business." Why are you so suspicious? No, I think we are going to have to give up on you. You just can't bring yourself to trust us.

 

[Kenny'sID]

It won't work. I was trying to lead you very gently to the point where I could present you with evidence of one single basic part of the theory--random variation--and you started going on about how it was "funny business." Why are you so suspicious? No, I think we are going to have to give up on you. You just can't bring yourself to trust us.

Nope, don't think that's the way it went at all, you took off after the attack on your evidence, something anyone can see happened. I was ready to somehow try to continue the lesson, if that was even possible, because the very funny business I mentioned, and you were so taken back by, was revealed right from the get go, and called out by others, you blamed me and quickly high tailed it out of there....bam zoom!

But that's right, has to be my fault, always the way.

Unbelievable.

I shouldn't have any trouble doing so by now, but still, I can't believe you would try to use that as your reason for exiting...didn't I tell you to take responsibility for the things you get yourself into and stop blaming others? Yet there you go again.

I didn't force you to do that presentation, it was all you. As a matter of fact I've constantly mentioned how ridiculous I think evolution is, then you turn around, and put it on the table, fail miserably, and blame me.