Your Thoughts on Creation & Evolution

[AV1611VET]

I have read and studied the Bible, but I do not see any reason why I should believe most of it. Even its historical sections, for example the stories of the Assyrian and Babylonian conquests, are not relevant to my life, and its moral and legal teaching are so archaic and even barbarous as to have lost any value for modern societies. In my opinion, it would be better to replace Bible study in schools with courses in moral philosophy.

None of my business, but if the Bible is so reprehensible to you, what made you keep reading and studying It?

That's a LOT of reading and studying.

No offense, but I always find these I-studied-the-Bible-through-and-through testimonials questionable.

 

[Speedwell]

Just curious… do you believe God plays no part at all, provides no guidance, in proper scientific findings and conclusions?

Do you mean that some (or all) scientists are divinely inspired? No, I don't think so.

 

[Speedwell]

None of my business, but if the Bible is so reprehensible to you, what made you keep reading and studying It?

That's a LOT of reading and studying.

No offense, but I always find these I-studied-the-Bible-through-and-through testimonials questionable.

How do you know that Astrophile finds the Bible reprehensible? The Bible is a record of a people and what they saw as their relationship with God. Who they took to be God may indeed be reprehensible in our eyes today, but that does not make the record itself reprehensible.

 

[Astrophile]

None of my business, but if the Bible is so reprehensible to you, what made you keep reading and studying It?

That's a LOT of reading and studying.

No offense, but I always find these I-studied-the-Bible-through-and-through testimonials questionable.

I didn't say that I found the Bible reprehensible; I said that I didn't see any reason to believe most of it, that even the historical sections aren't relevant to my life, and that its legal and moral teaching is archaic and barbarous. I read it partly to try to find records of unusual natural phenomena (for example, Isaiah 6:1-6 appears to me to be an account of a meteoric fireball and meteorite fall), and also for its historical and literary interest and to understand something of the development of the Jewish religion.

 

[AV1611VET]

How do you know that Astrophile finds the Bible reprehensible? The Bible is a record of a people and what they saw as their relationship with God. Who they took to be God may indeed be reprehensible in our eyes today, but that does not make the record itself reprehensible.

QV please:

In my opinion, it would be better to replace Bible study in schools with courses in moral philosophy.

Madalyn O'hair would be proud to hear this.

 

[inquiring mind]

Do you mean that some (or all) scientists are divinely inspired? No, I don't think so.

I guess you're saying you don't believe God plays a part in "proper" scientific findings and conclusions. Yet, you apparently recognize His influence in everything else in your life (being Anglican)… interesting.

 

[AV1611VET]

I didn't say that I found the Bible reprehensible; I said that I didn't see any reason to believe most of it, that even the historical sections aren't relevant to my life, and that its legal and moral teaching is archaic and barbarous. I read it partly to try to find records of unusual natural phenomena (for example, Isaiah 6:1-6 appears to me to be an account of a meteoric fireball and meteorite fall), and also for its historical and literary interest and to understand something of the development of the Jewish religion.

And now you don't want It taught in our schools ... right?

It's okay for you to read it ... just as long as they put a KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN sticker on It?

 

[dad]

Can you actually address the points I laid out in post #1807 though? Because if not then you really aren't bringing anything any more relevant to the table.

Let's look at those points then.

"1) You need start by accounting for the origin and existence of whatever creator being you are invoking.

He already accounted for His Own existence. He doesn't need me to do it.

2) You need to account for how said being would have created the universe to begin with. How do they interact with the universe? What energies did they use? Where does that energy come from? And so on...

I do not need to account for how Jesus created everything. Why would I? Does an ant have to account for your wife's car?
Where does energy come from you ask? What kind of energy? He has energy. There is energy in physics of earth. Etc etc. It all comes from God.

 

[inquiring mind]

I didn't say that I found the Bible reprehensible; I said that I didn't see any reason to believe most of it, that even the historical sections aren't relevant to my life, and that its legal and moral teaching is archaic and barbarous. I read it partly to try to find records of unusual natural phenomena (for example, Isaiah 6:1-6 appears to me to be an account of a meteoric fireball and meteorite fall), and also for its historical and literary interest and to understand something of the development of the Jewish religion.

There's a "Biblical Interpretation Method," sort of like you have a "Scientific Method."

 

[dad]

I have read and studied the Bible, but I do not see any reason why I should believe most of it. Even its historical sections, for example the stories of the Assyrian and Babylonian conquests, are not relevant to my life, and its moral and legal teaching are so archaic and even barbarous as to have lost any value for modern societies. In my opinion, it would be better to replace Bible study in schools with courses in moral philosophy.

So we should toss out all right and wrong and god and bad, and replace that with whatever you decide is moral? We should consider His plan of salvation over history as barbarous?

 

[AV1611VET]

There's a "Biblical Interpretation Method," sort of like you have a "Scientific Method."

I think children today should read the Bible.

Then compare what It says to what academians say about it.

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

 

[Speedwell]

Let's look at those points then.

He already accounted for His Own existence. He doesn't need me to do it.

I do not need to account for how Jesus created everything. Why would I? Does an ant have to account for your wife's car?
Where does energy come from you ask? What kind of energy? He has energy. There is energy in physics of earth. Etc etc. It all comes from God.

Are you suggesting creation Ex Deo?

 

[Speedwell]

I think children today should read the Bible.

Then compare what It says to what academians say about it.

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

I wouldn't read the Bible without the aid of what academicians have to say about it, To do otherwise would be an insult to the Word of God. The Bible is not a personal message from God to you, it is a gift, a wedding gift to the Bride of Christ. It is a message to the whole community of the faithful, and the whole community is involved in understanding it, including literary scholars, historians, archaeologists, and all other fields of human intellectual endeavor. As far as the child is concerned, he should be given the Gospel, as countless millions have been given it before him: by personal witness. The written Gospels next, with suitable guidance. The Bible, straight, is for much later and even then not without well-informed guidance.

 

[AV1611VET]

I wouldn't read the Bible without the aid of what academicians have to say about it,

That's what Eve did.

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

 

[Speedwell]

I guess you're saying you don't believe God plays a part in "proper" scientific findings and conclusions. Yet, you apparently recognize His influence in everything else in your life (being Anglican)… interesting.

Nonsense. God plays no more role in the life of a scientist, just because he is a scientist, than He does in the life of anyone else. Our intellectual efforts of any kind are entirely our own, subject to the moral and spiritual presence of God. Do you think God intervenes personally to help a motor mechanic diagnose a fault in an engine? A prospector to find gold? Why should he personally intervene to help a scientist?

 

[Speedwell]

That's what Eve did.

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

And it turns out the serpent was right.

 

[dad]

Are you suggesting creation Ex Deo?

Why would Jesus creating all things lead to that? Explain.

 

[dad]

And it turns out the serpent was right.

? Where does that leave God a liar and wrong?

 

[dad]

Nonsense. God plays no more role in the life of a scientist, just because he is a scientist, than He does in the life of anyone else. Our intellectual efforts of any kind are entirely our own, subject to the moral and spiritual presence of God. Do you think God intervenes personally to help a motor mechanic diagnose a fault in an engine? A prospector to find gold? Why should he personally intervene to help a scientist?

? If He is with us to the end of the world, and His spirit will guide us into all truth, how would He NOT help us, and inspire/guide whatever we do?

 

[AV1611VET]

And it turns out the serpent was right.

Isaiah 5:20a Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil;