Your spouse is in hell

[slayer-2004]

Assume that you and your spouse have known each other since you were 5 , and you have always loved each other since you were 17 . Your spouse was raised as a buddhist , and you were raised as a christian . You tried to convert him/her a couple times , but you both eventually realized that its best to be tolerant of each others religion , because you love each other for who you are .

You grew old together and both died in your sleep the same night .

You both arrived at heavens gate , but your spouse was not allowed into the gates of heaven , and God send him/her into the depths of hell .

God gave you a choice , heaven or hell with the one you love , you chose God reluctantly because you know that you wouldnt be together in hell anyways , satan would isolate you .

So now comes the question : how can you enjoy eternal bliss in heaven knowing your spouse is suffering eternal damnation ? How can you sit up there in your happy little cloud with the knowledge that the one you love is being tormented forever ? Is true heaven a possibility in this scenario ?

___________________________

Question 2 : If you truly are a christian and you love one another as god loves you , then how can you sit in your state of bliss when anybody is in hell ? If you are ffollowing gods law , is heaven a true possibility in any scenario ?

 

[Prince Lucianus]

I guess your mind will be erased.

I've talked about this with a Chritian once. The same basic story, but now concerning you're both murdered. You go to heaven, your wife doesn't, but the murderer (who later repented) comes in heaven latrer as well.
Joy all around.

Lucy

 

[slayer-2004]

I guess your mind will be erased.

Why would God erase your mind unless he had something he wanted to hide ?

And even if heaven is like that , then what is the differance between heaven and sticking your head in the sand for all eternity ?

 

[Prince Lucianus]

How else could you enjoy a place like that......

But, you could also come in a kind of borg system where everybody is equal and you can communicate with everybody. So, you get to hear the anwsers about the why your killer is there, but your wife isn't.
But, speculating about heaven is the only thing I can do. I namely don't believe in heaven......
I'll shut up.

Lucy

 

[ForeRunner]

Hell

 

[Buzz Dixon]

Hell is not a place one is sent to. Hell is a separation from God. One chooses separation from God.

BTW, you will not be with your wife in Hell. Hell is eternal isolation. People who think it's one big party and/or all their friends will be there with them are tragically wrong.

 

[ForeRunner]

I'd choose isolation and misery to be that much closer to my love than "bliss" in heaven, completely seperated from her.

 

[Philosoft]

Hell is not a place one is sent to. Hell is a separation from God. One chooses separation from God.

I don't. My disbelief is logically prior to sepraration. I can not separate myself from something I don't believe exists.

By the by, having seen this canard multiple times, I predict some creative semantic end-runs around logic, but rest assured we will always come back to this point.

BTW, you will not be with your wife in Hell. Hell is eternal isolation. People who think it's one big party and/or all their friends will be there with them are tragically wrong.

Who actually thinks this?

 

[Lycan T]

Hell is not a place one is sent to. Hell is a separation from God. One chooses separation from God.

BTW, you will not be with your wife in Hell. Hell is eternal isolation. People who think it's one big party and/or all their friends will be there with them are tragically wrong.

So for a few years of un-belief or sin -- we get ETERNITY in hell??? Sounds far to me!! NOT!!

And you did not answer the question -- How will you be happy in heaven -- knowing your loved on is in hell?

(Oh and what about the story in Luke -- about the rich man in hell -- sounds more like burning to me -- not isolation -- look it up)

*never mind -- here it is :

Luke 16
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

 

[Chrono Traveler]

I'd choose isolation and misery to be that much closer to my love than "bliss" in heaven, completely seperated from her.

Yes, I would rather be "tortured" than spend a forever in afterlife without the people I grew to love in LIFE. If I can't be with my love, and my friends in afterlife, then that is true torture....

 

[slayer-2004]

Hell is not a place one is sent to. Hell is a separation from God. One chooses separation from God.

This is such a sad argument . Your basically saying people choose to go to hell by not believing in Jesus christ , and going to hell is a natural effect of not believing in and accepting christ as the savior since death is the punishment for unforgiven sin .

First of all forgiveness and free will do not go hand in hand . To say they do is like saying cups and spoons are the same thing . One can easily forgive someone for something they have not asked forgiveness for .

Second of all people dont exactly reject[/] the christian god , they just dont believe he exists . I can see how this argument might hold water if someone both believed in God , knew christ was the savior , but rejected the forgiveness anyways and therefore really did send themself to hell ... however in the scenario where someone doesnt believe in the christian god and doesnt believe christ is the savior , it becomes entirely irrational due to the fact that people cannot reject what they dont believe .

Both those points aside ...the real problem with the "send yourself to hell" argument , and where it completely falls apart , is when you take a look at just who God is , or better yet what God did . God is the one who created nature correct ? Obviously he did or else he isnt God . So your basically saying God is bound by his own law that he wrote to let us burn in all eternity and therefore God isnt to blame .

That doesnt work . If I make a bomb and it explodes , who is to blame for the explosion ? Me . So who is to blame for people getting sent to hell because god wrote the laws of nature so that the punishment for sin is automatic death/eternal damnation/firey torment/whatever your denomination thinks hell is , and every human is born a natural sinner despite the fact they never did anything prior ? ( except being the same species as two child minded adults who didnt know right from wrong ) God .

 

[Buzz Dixon]

The double-edged sword of free will is that it permits evil to exist.

Without free will you have no soul, however.

God is merciful. His mercy extends to those who are incapable, either by their intellectual immaturity of physiological brain damage, of making a conscious moral choice.

But the choice has to be made by everyone else.

Hell was not created by God. Hell was created by humans and demons who chose to separate themselves from God.

God has extended a lifeline to everyone in Christ Jesus. All you have to do is grab it.

Take a reading of C.S. Lewis on the matter.

As to being "with" someone in Hell, and using the vision of Hell as depicted in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, do you think the demons would let you take any comfort from allowing you any form of contact?

(In fact, they'd probably lie to you and tell you your spouse made it to heaven and you didn't.)

All this is sophomoric arguing to avoid the crucial issue: What can a Christian spouse do to help bring his/her unbelieving spouse to Christ?

Hint: Sometimes the spouse may not be the best person to do the witnessing.

 

[slayer-2004]

what you said about free will being a double edged sword - true , however the rest of what you said was nothing but the usual christian ideals , you didnt actually answer to the argument I just gave .

God has extended a lifeline to everyone in Christ Jesus. All you have to do is grab it.

false analogy . God has extended a lifeline along with allowing about 300 other false lifelines that lead to hell that dont look much differant at all . None of them are scientifically proven , and all of them ask you to place your blind faith in them . Thats like giving people blindfold and forcing them to walk through a bunch of ropes and pull on one . if they are lucky , they will pick the right one and will be launched into a room were they are awarded a million dollars , if they are not then they will fall into a furnace and be incinerated .

Im just one of the people who took off his blindfold to find all the ropes were just ropes tied onto branches . No furnace , no million dollars , nada . Just me looking at all the people who were yelling at me to take my blindfold off ... and then joining them to help the rest stop fooling themselves .

Take a reading of C.S. Lewis on the matter.

its bad enough when people try and use a book referance as an argument ( since if you read the book yourself then you should know the answer and be able to tell me without it ) But at least tell me what book your referring to . C.S. Lewis wrote a lot of books .

 

[Carico]

Hell is not a choice? You will do ANYTHING, Slayer, i mean ANYTHING to keep from going to heaven! You know what you have to do to get there, but apparently admitting your wrongdoing to God is too high a price for you. Very sad indeed!

 

[slayer-2004]

You know what you have to do to get there

No I dont . I know of a few false methods , but for the most part I dont know .

but apparently admitting your wrongdoing to God is too high a price for you. Very sad indeed!

I know I have done things wrong , and so does god . Unless he isnt omnipotent ...

If anything is "Very sad indeed" it is how obvious it is you didnt even read a single post on here . You dont even sound like you know what the OP of this thread says .

 

[Philosoft]

The double-edged sword of free will is that it permits evil to exist.

But it doesn't necessitate evil. Why couldn't God create a world in which its inabitants always freely chose good?

God is merciful. His mercy extends to those who are incapable, either by their intellectual immaturity of physiological brain damage, of making a conscious moral choice.

Am I supposed to be impressed by this kind of "mercy"?

Hell was not created by God. Hell was created by humans and demons who chose to separate themselves from God.

Yeah? So why didn't they create a rather nice place, only without God?

As to being "with" someone in Hell, and using the vision of Hell as depicted in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, do you think the demons would let you take any comfort from allowing you any form of contact?

Why would they care? I thought God was the one they hated so much.

 

[billwald]

Says someplace in the NT that the believing spouse sanctifies the unbelieving spouse.

 

[silverflare]

I, for one, could not ethically choose to live blissfully in heaven while someone I loved, especially the person I care most about, would be suffering in hell. Even if they are not suffering but are merely without God, why be in heaven if they are not here with me? I don't know about everyone else, but even knowing that my loved one had free will in making the decision would not lessen my pain and longing for them. Many would say that once in heaven, all longing and pain is gone, but I could not ethically choose to completely forget about someone I truly cared about if it meant eternal bliss and freedom from all pain and desires.

 

[Lifesaver]

People in Heaven realize that, since the people in Hell did not strive for good and for truth as they ought to, they could never be with God and, even though many did not have an explicit knowledge of Him as the Triune Being He is, rejected those things which He is, and which all of us know (good, truth, love, beauty).

And if someone places their love for a person (who can be themselves or others) over their love for God, it is probable they will not be saved as well.

As for our feelings right now, that we couldn't possibly ever accept some possible outcome of someone's damnation/salvation, when we are in Heaven, and truth becomes clear, all that changes.

 

[Avatar]

Infinitely more likely to be the other way around, but assuming I somehow got into heaven and my wife was in hell, I'd simply ask God to grant us both oblivion.

Better than either heaven or hell, IMHO.