Your people

[Douggg]

Yes the verses speak of Judea. Not the world.

The great tribulation if not cut short, no flesh shall be saved. Matthew 24:22

The trumpet judgments in Revelation 8 indicate a global impact.

 

[shilohsfoal]

The great tribulation if not cut short, no flesh shall be saved. Matthew 24:22

The trumpet judgments in Revelation 8 indicate a global impact.

OK, Jesus said the abomination that causes desolation would be placed in Israel. Then shall be great tribulation.

No where does scripture say the armed forces places the abomination if desolation in NC. Why should I assume I should flee to the mountains of North Carolina when the abomination of desolation is in Jerusalem?

 

[shilohsfoal]

Some people say they are Daniels people. Some people claim they are the holy city of Jerusalem. Some people claim they are Christ.

I normally ignore these people.

 

[Douggg]

OK, Jesus said the abomination that causes desolation would be placed in Israel. Then shall be great tribulation.

No where does scripture say the armed forces places the abomination if desolation in NC. Why should I assume I should flee to the mountains of North Carolina when the abomination of desolation is in Jerusalem?

I am not understanding your point. Of course, if you are living in NC, you would not get on a plane and flee into the Judean Mountains. Or maybe you would. I think a lot of people who become aware of what just happened over in Israel is what was prophesied in the bible, will head to the best remote location they can.

The trumpet judgments indicate a global great tribulation.

 

[miamited]

In Daniel 12:1,Daniel is told, "at that time your people(who's names are written) shall be delivered". Who is Daniels people that shall be delivered? Does Daniels people consist of communist China? Does Daniels people consist of Cubans and Swedes? Or is Daniel's people a group of people in Israel at that time?

Daniel 12:1 KJV: And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Hi SF,

I believe that a proper interpretation is that 'your people' are the people of Israel. However, God further defines for Daniel, just as God has said elsewhere, that it won't be all of Israel, but only those whose names are found written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

This is also before the gospel went out into all the world. We will find on the day that God resurrects all people, that these people that God speaks of here will receive the promise of God that they have trusted and also all those in communist China, Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, Russia, N. and S. Korea, Vietnam, Canada, Great Britain and the Netherlands. All those, both Jew and Gentile who have trusted in the testimony of God's Son will find God's salvation. Just as the Scriptures declare, all of those whose names were found written in the Lamb's Book of Life will be saved.

But the people that God is speaking to Daniel about at this place in the Scriptures, are the believing Jews of Israel.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[shilohsfoal]

Hi SF,

I believe that a proper interpretation is that 'your people' are the people of Israel. However, God further defines for Daniel, just as God has said elsewhere, that it won't be all of Israel, but only those whose names are found written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

This is also before the gospel went out into all the world. We will find on the day that God resurrects all people, that these people that God speaks of here will receive the promise of God that they have trusted and also all those in communist China, Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, Russia, N. and S. Korea, Vietnam, Canada, Great Britain and the Netherlands. All those, both Jew and Gentile who have trusted in the testimony of God's Son will find God's salvation. Just as the Scriptures declare, all of those whose names were found written in the Lamb's Book of Life will be saved.

But the people that God is speaking to Daniel about at this place in the Scriptures, are the believing Jews of Israel.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

There are two separate resurrections in the new testiment. The first takes place after the beast is destroyed at Armegeddon. The last takes place 1000 years after the first.
Which one is Daniel speaking of, the first or the last?

 

[shilohsfoal]

I am not understanding your point. Of course, if you are living in NC, you would not get on a plane and flee into the Judean Mountains. Or maybe you would. I think a lot of people who become aware of what just happened over in Israel is what was prophesied in the bible, will head to the best remote location they can.

The trumpet judgments indicate a global great tribulation.

The point of Jesus's message is. There will be great tribulation when the abomination of desolation is placed in Jerusalem. Why should I assume there would be great tribulation in North Carolina when the abomination of desolation is in Jerusalem. Yes the people in Judea will flee for safety and it would be a terrible time for pregnant and nursing mothers there. But why should I assume I will feel the effects of that abomination of desolation on the other side of the world?

 

[Douggg]

Why should I assume there would be great tribulation in North Carolina when the abomination of desolation is in Jerusalem.

Because the great tribulation will be worldwide as indicated by the trumpet judgments in Revelation 8.

 

[miamited]

There are two separate resurrections in the new testiment. The first takes place after the beast is destroyed at Armegeddon. The last takes place 1000 years after the first.
Which one is Daniel speaking of, the first or the last?

Hi SF,

God is speaking to Daniel of the last resurrection. The last resurrection is the only one that would be explained as some being resurrected to eternal life and some to condemnation. The first resurrection is only of the righteous, or those who have professed faith in Jesus. I've always thought that the first resurrection may be God's final test of a man. The Scriptures speak of God refining us as silver is refined from the dross.

Therefore, the first resurrection could be that all those who have professed faith in Christ are resurrected and given a taste for 1,000 years of what the eternal life will be like. Some may decide that they may have acted to hastily and turn back. I say this because it is after the 1,000 year reign that Satan is released one last time to continue to destroy those whose faith is in God. To deceive the nations one more time, I think is how the Scriptures put it.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[shilohsfoal]

Hi SF,

God is speaking to Daniel of the last resurrection. The last resurrection is the only one that would be explained as some being resurrected to eternal life and some to condemnation. The first resurrection is only of the righteous, or those who have professed faith in Jesus. I've always thought that the first resurrection may be God's final test of a man. The Scriptures speak of God refining us as silver is refined from the dross.

Therefore, the first resurrection could be that all those who have professed faith in Christ are resurrected and given a taste for 1,000 years of what the eternal life will be like. Some may decide that they may have acted to hastily and turn back. I say this because it is after the 1,000 year reign that Satan is released one last time to continue to destroy those whose faith is in God. To deceive the nations one more time, I think is how the Scriptures put it.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

According to Daniel the king of the norths military occupies Jerusalem for 42 months before they place the abomination of desolation there.That's when daniel says the resurrection takes place.

In Revelation the saints who are resurected in the first resurrection are reigning with Christ in Jerusalem before the last resurrection.

Are you positive the resurrection daniel wrote of is the last?If that were true then Christ and the saints who reign with him would flee from the Abomination if desolation. Do you honestly believe Christ and those who reign with him for 1000 years would flee from anything?

 

[shilohsfoal]

Because the great tribulation will be worldwide as indicated by the trumpet judgments in Revelation 8.

Well, you say it is. But when I see the abomination of desolation placed in Jerusalem by the armed forces of the north, I might go buy me a burger and fries Insted of fleeing for safety as those in Judea.
Im a long way from Armegeddon Israel.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The verses you're thinking of are for those in Judaea. But I think Douggg just gave a great scripture showing it will be global (Revelation 3:10)

This proves this is where New Testament Congregation went with the Gospel. Not national Isarel.

Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: ... Matthew 24:16-20

Again, Judaea is spiritually church in the New Testament, not a land in the Middle East. Spiritual Discernment, remember?

It is not untypical to see God describe himself, or His protection of the saints by the use of mountains. God in scripture often uses worldly examples to illustrate "spiritual" truths. Here, God is illustrating the fleeing of the faithful from a situation that is abominable to God (and which will have judgment come upon it), to the safety and total protection His kingdom (the mountains). The mountains are spiritually where He dwells, the place of His feet. This is illustrating at this time, Christians must flee from unrighteousness in Judaea to the "place" of righteousness. A place of righteousness and protection, which only God's spiritual mountains can provide. We see the "Spiritual picture" of this refuge of righteousness and protection of the mountains illustrated in such passages as:

Psalms 36:6

• "Thy righteousness is like the great mountains; thy judgments are a great deep: O LORD, thou preservest man and beast."

Here God signifies the righteousness of His kingdom is what preserves man, and He likens it to great "mountains." So when Matthew 24 says believers flee the unrighteousness of his house on Earth (local churches where abomination of desolation stands), these are the mountains to which they are to flee to! Or again we read:

Psalms 125:2

• "As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever."

Here again, we see the Kingdom of God is likened or equated unto "mountains" which are around all His people, signifying His own strong righteous protection of them. Using scripture as our guide and interpreter, we understand that when we see the context in Matthew 24 speak of these false prophets arising deceiving many, iniquity abounding, love of many waxing cold, and this abomination standing in the Holy place, these are the mountains Christ is telling His servants to flee to. Flee to the Spiritual kingdom of God where His righteousness protects them. Even the context illustrates it is for God's righteous protection. It is the only place of true Peace and Safety.

Psalms 87:1

• "His foundation is in the holy mountains.
• The LORD loveth the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob.
• Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah."

Zion is the Kingdom of God, the spiritual city of God, the place of God's feet. The holy mountains illustrate where His foundation is where His people can never be moved. Mountains is plural to illustrate it's all-encompassing nature, as when God pointed out to His people that He is the "mountains" that were all round about Jerusalem (Psalms 125:2). In other words, there is no breach point, God is as "many mountains" surrounding the Children of God that they are protected completely.

Let me show you some example:

When a church falls away from the faith (1st Timothy 4:1), symbolically the New Testament Congregation (kingdom) has been apostatized where it has become separated from God, and Christ is no longer dwelling in the midst of it. This is what is illustrated in 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2:6-7. When this occurs, God's servants are to flee from that church which has forsaken or separated from God, to the place (mountains) of God, which now is separated from them. And what we do is what Christians have always done. Preach the whole gospel message.

As a practical example, when God told Israel that the Kingdom of God had been taken from them and given to another (Matthew 21:43), the overwhelming majority of those congregation members, the Jews, didn't like it and didn't see any change in the physical congregation. They didn't have a clue what Christ was talking about when He said the Kingdom was taken from them. All they knew is that Christ was condemning them, and so they hated Him for telling the truth. The reason is that they "wrongly" equated the promises of God to Israel to promises of a physical land and a physical (worldly) kingdom just as the Judaizers and Premillennarians do today!!

Nevertheless, the Kingdom promised and given to the New Covenant Israel (taken from them) was not a physical land nor kingdom, or of a physical reign in physical Jerusalem, but the true promised land which the physical merely foreshadowed. Israel is spiritual! Period! Sadly, there are many people STILL looking at the natural Jews, land, nation, city, Kingdom, temple, and mountains in prophecy, are likewise missing the whole point. Just as their fathers did in their measuring.

1st Corinthians 2:14

• "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Once again, those who are of the Spirit, receive the things of the Spirit because they are spiritually discerned. It's not by who is smarter, or who went to seminary, or who has a better memory, or you are taught by Thomas Ice. It is about who has the Spirit to understand in the wisdom of Christ. The only true wisdom. The unfaithful will not hear God, will not recognize unfaithfulness and rebellion in the churches, will not forsake it for righteousness sake, nor cry out for all of the abominations therein (Ezekiel 9:4), because the natural man secretly "wants" to compromise, and is not actively as a watchman. Look at the spiritual condition of many, many Churches all over the world today! He deceives himself and therefore he will not warn, will not flee to the mountains, but will delay, and rationalize, and making excuses. The mountains 'signify' the place where the Lord dwells. You will not find Him in Judaea (symbolically unfaithful church) anymore because she has become an abomination , ie. when the Abomination stands in the Church, His place will no longer be in the church. It will be with the people in the fields, on the rooftops, in the mountains.

Isaiah 52:6-8

• "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
• How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!
• Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the LORD shall bring again Zion."

Christ's feet were upon the mountains and the Lord's house was established in those mountains, but at this appointed time, the church will not be upon those mountains, as it will be removed out of its place (Revelation 2:5) because there is no repentance for their sins. The point is, this speaks of the gospel going forth by those who dwell in Zion, the habitation of God. The house on the mountains represents those who are "in Christ." And these are the mountains true believers flee to when they escape abominations. The place the church has been removed from in judgment is the place of retreat or refuge.

Psalms 90:1

• "Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations."

And as we make our dwelling place in God, we continue to be a witness to the truth. Those inside the unfaithful church having been judged by that witness (Revelation 11:5-6), are what we see and mourn. The only thing that remains after this is the return of Christ.

 

[TribulationSigns]

So you convict new jerusalem of sin do you?

What are you talking about?

 

[shilohsfoal]

What are you talking about?

You said the holy city in this verse is the city in heaven which is new Jerusalem.
What transgression are you convicting new Jerusalem of?What sin do you claim she needs to put a stop to?

Daniel 9:24 KJV: Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

[Rachel20]

Again, Judaea is spiritually church in the New Testament, not a land in the Middle East. Spiritual Discernment, remember?

This is replacement theology - I don't adhere to it.

 

[TribulationSigns]

You said the holy city in this verse is the city in heaven which is new Jerusalem.
What transgression are you convicting new Jerusalem of?

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

You misunderstood. The seventy weeks are concerned about God's Salvation plan for His people, Congregation Israel which represents the Holy City, Revelation 21. The Holy City makes up of all Old and New Testament chosen Elect, by the Blood of the Lamb. They are God's chosen people with no sin in them.

However, WHILE ON EARTH, the congregation of Israel makes up of two groups of people, the Elect and Professed Believers. They both are part of the Holy City. Remember that the professed believers are corporately or external parts of the city. This is WHERE the abomination of desolation is.

Revelation 11:1-2 KJV
[1] And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
[2] But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Revelation 18:2-4 KJV
[2] And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
[3] For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
[4] And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

This is how the woman, that "great city" once a faithful representative of God, has become a harlot. This is where God has called his chosen elect to come out while the rest of professed believers remains within her.

 

[TribulationSigns]

This is replacement theology - I don't adhere to it.

I do not support nor teach replacement theology.

Replacement Theology is not a phrase that is in the Bible. It is a phrase conjured up by those opposed to the truth of God's very own words concerning the Church and Israel, and it's meant to obfuscate the "real" issue.

Hebrews 8:9-10

• "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
• For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"

The New Covenant with Israel is NOT with a physical nation, but with a spiritual people whom God has put His laws into their mind and written them in their hearts. Period! It NEVER was an everlasting Covenant with a physical nation (nor could it be), and so the idea of replacement of a nation is null and void! The nation only outwardly "represented" God's people, and clearly, according to God's Word, that was subject to conditions. I have already given you countless scriptures illustrating that. Far from being blessed people, God has pronounced judgment upon the Nation of Israel.

Matthew 21:42-43

• "Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
• Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

Clearly, those are the Lord's words, not someone's or your private interpretation. The Kingdom representation has been taken from the nation of Israel. End of story! Therefore, how can your theology teach that the Nation of Israel is "STILL" God's chosen people? Clearly, God has chosen to remove the kingdom or reign from them and give it to another that will bring forth fruit. What you falsely label "Replacement Theology" is Christ's Theology. No fruit will come from "the nation" Israel ever again.

The "restoration of Israel," which is the real Biblical phrase, is accomplished in the rebuilding in Christ. Not in the heresy of physical governments/kingdoms or Temples or Blood Sacrifices. But in Christ, "The Israel of God!" The Church.

Therefore, replacement theology is indeed red herring!

Selah!

 

[shilohsfoal]

You misunderstood. The seventy weeks are concerned about God's Salvation plan for His people, Congregation Israel which represents the Holy City, Revelation 21. The Holy City makes up of all Old and New Testament chosen Elect, by the Blood of the Lamb. They are God's chosen people with no sin in them.

However, WHILE ON EARTH, the congregation of Israel makes up of two groups of people, the Elect and Professed Believers. They both are part of the Holy City. Remember that the professed believers are corporately or external parts of the city. This is WHERE the abomination of desolation is.

Revelation 11:1-2 KJV
[1] And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
[2] But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Revelation 18:2-4 KJV
[2] And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
[3] For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
[4] And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

This is how the woman, that "great city" once a faithful representative of God, has become a harlot. This is where God has called his chosen elect to come out while the rest of professed believers remains within her.

Daniel 9:24 KJV: Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

So your saying 70 weeks are determined upon the church to stop sinning?
Yet you believe this has nothing to do with Jerusalem?Is this you being destroyed here in the following verse since you believe you are that city?

Daniel 9:26 KJV: And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Daniel 9:24 KJV: Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

So your saying 70 weeks are determined upon the church to stop sinning?

Geez Whiz. Can't you read what Daniel 9 talks about?! Listen... It is God's Salvation Plan for His People, Israel. More specifically, the congregation of Israsel, from the Old and New Testament. They are ALL Daniel's people IN CHRIST!

Didn't God send His son to die to finish transgression for His People, not only for the Jews? To make an end of sins for His People, not only for the Jews? To bring everlasting righteousness for His People, not only for the Jews, but all people from old and new testament congregation in Christ.

Selah!

 

[shilohsfoal]

Geez Whiz. Can't you read what Daniel 9 talks about?! Listen... It is God's Salvation Plan for His People, Israel. More specifically, the congregation of Israsel, from the Old and New Testament. They are ALL Daniel's people IN CHRIST!

Didn't God send His son to die to finish transgression for His People, not only for the Jews? To make an end of sins for His People, not only for the Jews? To bring everlasting righteousness for His People, not only for the Jews, but all people from old and new testament congregation in Christ.

Selah!

Since you believe you are that holy city, is this you being destroyed here?

Daniel 9:26 KJV: And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Or maybe you was wrong and your not that city.