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  1. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Newbie

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    In Daniel 12:1,Daniel is told, "at that time your people(who's names are written) shall be delivered". Who is Daniels people that shall be delivered? Does Daniels people consist of communist China? Does Daniels people consist of Cubans and Swedes? Or is Daniel's people a group of people in Israel at that time?

    Daniel 12:1 KJV: And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
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  2. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    That is a good question. IMHO it speaks to Daniel's tribe of Judah. Remember when Daniel received this vision, he was in Babylon where the Kingdom of Judah was in captivity.
     
  3. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Newbie

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    Sounds like a good honest answer.
    How about that time of trouble(such as never was) Daniel was speaking of in the verse. Jesus spoke of that exact same time in the gospel saying that it would be a time of great trouble (or tribulation) when the abomination of desolation is placed in Jerusalem.


    Matthew 24:21 For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again.

    Do you believe it's safe to say that time of great trouble Daniel was speaking of is in Judea and say probably not in West Virginia or South Africa or even Japan?
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
  4. Rachel20

    Rachel20 Member

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    Daniel was a Jew. "His people" are the Jews, and "his holy city" is Jerusalem.

    Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. (Daniel 9:24)
     
  5. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Newbie

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    I believe your right.
    Would you agree that Daniels people who are to be delivered in the following verse to be jews as well?

    Daniel 12:1 KJV: And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
     
  6. Rachel20

    Rachel20 Member

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    Yes I would agree. Not saying gentiles will be excluded from salvation during that time, but that God's focus will be back on the Jews:

    For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Romans 11:25-27
     
  7. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It's Gabriel, speaking to Daniel (i.e. Old Testament), ... the obvious reference would be to God's Old Testament people, ... i.e. the Israelites and their descendants ...
     
  8. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Newbie

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    Daniel 12:1 KJV: And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
    I believe it is as lso speaking of the Jews as well.
    So concerning the time of trouble unlike there ever was. Christ mentioned this time of great trouble unlike there has even been in the gospel. Jesus said it would be when the abomination of desolation is placed in Jerusalem.
    Matthew 24:21 For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again.
    Do you believe this time of trouble (when Daniel's people are deliverd) is local to those jews or do you believe that time of trouble will be in Japan, Guam, and North Carolina also?
     
  9. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Newbie

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    That's what I believe.

    Daniel is being told his people will be deliverd at that time. Obviously this would consist of Israel.
    Do we have any reason to believe this verse has anything to do with Canada, Japan, or Cuba?
     
  10. Rachel20

    Rachel20 Member

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    At this point, I believe the trouble will be global, since all nations will be gathered against Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:2), and all nations (in the "four corners of the earth") will be deceived (Revelation 20:8). Also since the mark (Revelation 13:17) and wars Jesus described (Mark 13:8) seem global.
     
  11. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Newbie

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    Well, obviously if the nations attack Jerusalem, there would be trouble in Jerusalem. And at that time Daniels people will be deliverd.
    Matthew 24:15 So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination of desolation,' described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),
    Matthew 24:16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
    But why would we assume we should flee to the mountains in my home state of North Carolina if the abomination of desolation is in Jerusalem?
    I mean I don't believe I would feel the effects of it here so why believe that tribulation would be here?
    Remember Jesus is specifically talking about the abomination if desolation when speaking of great tribulation.
    Matthew 24:21 For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
  12. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes, He was a Jew who was part of the Old Testament Congregation of Israel. And we, as Christians, are a spiritual Jew who is part of the New Testament Congregation of Israel. Together, we are both ONE ISRAEL of God, in Christ whom He has confirmed a covenant with His Blood! Selah!

    So are we, in Christ.

    Not the physical city of Jerusalem, but Holy City from above where we are all together with Christ.
     
  13. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes, Michael is Jesus Christ who is our Messiah the Prince (Daniel 9:24) who guarded HIS PEOPLE, Israel. Not only the Jews of Old Testament congregation but also the Gentiles (now spiritually Jews) in Christ in the New Testament congregation.

    Matthew 24:21 For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again.


    This is talking about the Great Tribulation period prior to Second Coming where ALL of Daniel's people (both old and new testament) will be delivers if their name is found in the Book of Life.

    Since we are in New Testament period. The church is a representative of God's Kingdom on Earth, the kingdom representative that was taken from Old Testament congregation at the Cross. Therefore, the time of trouble is upon Christian (spiritual Jews) all over the world. Consider wisely:

    Revelation 20:7-9 KJV
    [7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
    [8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
    [9] And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

    The New Testament Congregation of Israel is God's beloved city because they represented God's kingdom all over the Earth wherever the Christians are. The time of trouble is when Satan has marshaled the armies of false prophets and Christians coming into the church to deceive the messengers of the congregation who have NOT sealed by God. This is the judgment in which the "fire came down from God out of heaven" is symbolical of!

    This has nothing to do with the physical city in the Middle East or a literal fire from heaven upon literal armies with guns and missiles! The battle of Armaggeddon is within the congregation of Israel where she has become a whore - Babylon the Great.
     
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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  15. Rachel20

    Rachel20 Member

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    The verses you're thinking of are for those in Judaea. But I think Douggg just gave a great scripture showing it will be global (Revelation 3:10)

    Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: ... Matthew 24:16-20
     
  16. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Newbie

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  17. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Newbie

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    Yes the verses speak of Judea. Not the world.
     
  18. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I have not been tempted to worship the beast nor his image - or die for not doing so.
     
  19. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Newbie

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    So you convict new jerusalem of sin do you?
     
  20. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Newbie

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    OK, are you going to be in Judea when the abomination of desolation is placed by the armed forces of the north?

    This is about tribulation.
    Not temptation.
     
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