Futurist Only Your end times scenario

[Dave Watchman]

The "Abomination of Desoloation" identified in Matthew 24:15-16 which appears in the "holy place" has absolutely NOTHING to do with any Jewish Temple (past, or future). According to real Christian theology, no geographic locaton, or building in and of itself, is supposed to be held as sacred or holy.

Agreed. But Jesus said it "stands". Let the reader under "stand". It just doesn't appear.

And Mark says:"standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) .

But I'm certain that these are not the same as Jerusalem surrounded by armies because, among other things, Luke puts the "flee to the mountains" instructions after the "days of Lot" in chapter 17. I believe this is very important to properly understand but that it's not currently understood so it's probably not a bad idea to think out of the box from time to time.

I'm also sure that the "holy place" spoken of by our Savior has zero to do with a rebuilt temple because an earthly temple will fail to meet with His definition of a "holy place". How the Jews define their potential "temple" is scripturally irrelevant but it will certainly not be a holy place authorized by God.

The Apostles taught the bodies of believers in Christ, have now become the temple of God, inwhich the Spirit of God dwelleth, (1 Corinthians 3:16).

I don't think Vladimir Putin is the Antichrist but I agree that believers in Christ have now become the temple of God and this is THE real Temple which John will measure during our appointed time of the end. His and his fellow apostles' words will be witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth .

 

[peterlindner]

This is God's great test. Will you listen to Jesus or will you listen to angels/dreams? The end times are as the days of Noe, as the days of the Cana wedding, as the days of Lazarus, and as the days of fishing. They all speak to the same time. They are the time, times, and a half. Happy Tu B'Shevat to all of you.

 

[Douggg]

I guess my point is, all these End Time prophecies you're wrestling with and guessing about have already been FULFILLED in recent historic times.

Well you may be in the wrong thread, because this is a futurist thread. I would not call your view a preterist view nor a classic historist view.

There have however historically been TEN dictatorships (illegitimate governments) in Eastern Europe during the Cold War era which began in March 1947 when President Truman issued his Policy of Containment against the Soviet East Bloc, (Daniel 2:42). NINE were Stalinist dictatorships. The U.S.S.R (that includes the three Baltic States which voluntarily joined the U.S.S.R. as republics of the Soviet Union and did not regain their independence until 1991), Poland, East Germany, Bulgaria, Romania, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Yugoslavia and Albania, (The Iron of Daniel's Prophecy). The TENTH kingdom is the Roman Catholic population of Eastern Europe which represents the Vatican State, (the miry clay of Daniel's vision representing infirm spiritual beliefs, Psalms 40:4).


Daniel goes on to say THREE of these ten kingdoms will be SUBDUED, (Daniel 7:24). East Germany rebelled in 1948 and was subdued by the Soviet Army. Czechoslovakia and Hungary also rebelled and were subdued by the Warsaw Pact. Daniel also says three of these kingdoms will be "plucked up by their roots" (Daniel 7:8). Albania and Yugoslavia withdrew from the Warsaw Pact, and East Germany reunited with West germany before the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.

Daniel 7 does not say 3 kingdoms, but three kings - the leaders, not the nations they are leaders over. It is one kingdom, not ten kingdoms. Out of the fourth kingdom, the ten kings - leaders - (dictators are leaders, and no-one becomes a dictator on his own - so the dictator issue is irrelevant) - give their kingdom to the beast to carry out his agenda.

The beast has not come to power yet, and will not come to power until the person first becomes the little horn, then the prince who shall come, then the Antichrist, then the revealed man of sin - then he becomes the beast - for that last 42 months of Revelation 13 before Jesus returns.

By the way, that statement about the resurrected Roman Empire representing a ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT because the Ancient Roman Empire was a ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT is historically INCORRECT.

I don't think that is the point. The Roman Empire was the dominant force back in its days. In the end times, the EU, allied with the west, will be the dominant force in the world. There will still be three other powerful forces; the north, the south, the east. It is just that the west- the EU, allied with the U.S., will be the dominant power... and has the military, economic, and technology capabilities to carry out the beast's agenda when that time come.

666 didn't happen back in the days of the Soviet Union.

 

[Psalm3704]

Whatever temple gets built for the 70th week, it is going to be replaced when the millennium starts. So I don't disagree with you there, if you can go with that thinking.

We're pretty much in agreement here Douggg.









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[Douggg]

Actually, Yes it Did. During the Cold War era, (circa.1947-1991) the 666 Prophecy was historically fulfilled by THREE godless ideologies, each one represented by a succession of SIX men. In other words, 666. History and simple math being "universally" understood by everyone on the planet, that is the ONLY practical and logical interpretation of Revelation 13:18.

The 666 requirement has never been instituted in recorded history of man so far. It has to be not only the number of the beast's name, but also has be that the number (or name itself or the mark) is required to be in everyone' right hand or forehead. Hasn't happened yet.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[stephen583]

The 666 requirement has never been instituted in recorded history of man so far. It has to be not only the number of the beast's name, but also has be that the number (or name itself or the mark) is required to be in everyone' right hand or forehead. Hasn't happened yet.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Oh yeah. The whole Mark Thing Being a "Physical Mark" (POPULAR FUTURIST MYTHOLOGY). I'm totally aware of that Myth. Electronic Chip Implants and all that ridiculous non-sense, right ? Only problem is that totally bogus theory ignores a whole bunch of scriptural evidence that flat out contradicts it.

Anyone who has read Genesis and the Book of Psalms knows the terms "right hand" and "forehead" are used figuratively (not literally) in those Scriptures. The forehead of a man represents his "thoughts or beliefs" "his mind", as in "their foreheads are hard like flint" meaning the children of Israel are stubborn. In Genesis, when God said "I will write my laws and commandments on their foreheads".. Nobody got a tattoo on his forehead. In the Bible, the "right hand" represents the strong hand with which God or man accomplishes their works. I mean, Com on Dude, really ?! This is Bible 101 and Sunday School Stuff.

So the Mark of the Beast merely represents the ungodly ideologies (thoughts, ideas) of Stalinism, Maoism and Marianism which its creators and proponents received as a figurative mark in their foreheads (through their belief in those godless ideologies). While the figurative mark in the right hand refers to those who by their direct action supported those ideologies. Like those Chinese soldiers at Tienaman Square who sat on those machine guns and butchered democracy protestors for throwing red paint across the image of Mao Tze Tung. That got them a figurative mark in their right hand.

So I'm afraid, the Prophecy you're so absolutely convinced couldn't possibly in no way shape or form have ever been fulfilled at no time, and yet remains to be fulfilled... That Prophecy ?! HAS ALREADY BEEN FULFILLED.

SO WELCOME TO THE APOCALYPSE DOUGGG.

 

[stephen583]

As for the "buying and selling" of things being attached to the Mark of the Beast.. Have you been to Wal Mart recently Douggg ?! And tried to buy anything that wasn't "Made In China" ?! Do you even know how many American businesses are now either owned or controlled by China ? You need to spend some internet time researching that one buddy, seriously. Do you know how many trillions of dollars of goods China buys from the U.S. every year ? They have a trade deficit 25 times the size of the United States, did you know that ? Russia and China our "Most Favored Trade" status partners. Heck boy. We haven't just been idly sitting back waiting for the Fourth Horseman of the Apocalypse to arrive, We've literally been Paving the road to Hell he's going to ride in on".

 

[stephen583]

And you don't think these prophecies have been fulfilled yet Douggg ?! Or are you just regurgitating the Extreme Futurist Mythology you seem to have swallowed ? Vomiting doesn't equal "thinking", now does it Douggg ???

 

[Douggg]

And you don't think these prophecies have been fulfilled yet Douggg ?!

Well, the prophecies have not been fulfilled because the Jews in Jerusalem and Judea have not fled to the mountains, as the 666 requirement goes hand in hand with the setting up of the Abomination of Desolation.

 

[Hazrus]

Didn't the Jews flee when the Temple was destroyed around 70AD?

 

[Douggg]

Didn't the Jews flee when the Temple was destroyed around 70AD?

They did flee out of Jerusalem because they saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies. That prophecy was fulfilled in 70AD, yes.

There is still the future prophecy to flee into the mountains when the abomination of desolation is standing where it (not he) should not be, in the holy place, as spoken of by Daniel the prophet. Which when we go to Daniel 12, the abomination of desolation is time of the end when transportation and knowledge are increased - greatly, is what I think is being implied - our generation.

Which our generation has the weaponry to destroy all life on earth, which man did not have the capability back in 70 AD. So the Matthew 24:15-16 , Matthew 24:22, prophecy about fleeing and the abomination of desolation is still ahead of us - but not too far away.

It is really important to note the difference between the transgression of desolation - by which the daily sacrifice is stopped, and the abomination of desolation, which also the daily sacrifice continues to not be done.

first, the transgression of desolation - the person goes into the temple sits.

followed by the abomination of desolation - an image, a statue in the standing position, of the beast.

A person can see what is going to happen by mentally linking some critical passages together.

The person breaks violates the covenant (Mt. Sinai) in the middle of the week. First, by transgressing the covenant, and stopping the daily sacrifice.

Why? Because in Daniel 8, it says he shall magnify himself in his heart ... 25. And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

So, the person thinks he has achieved God-hood. And goes in the temple and sits . "Sits" is very important. For one thing "sits" distinguishes the transgression of desolation act from the abomination of desolation, "standing" in the holy place.

And "sits" links to Ezekiel 28:1-10, God's reaction to the revealed man of sins's audacious act. See? He has magnified himself in his heart. He is claiming to be God. He "sits" in the seat of God, that is, in the temple. In the midst of the seas, metaphoric language that he is showing the entire world that he is God.


2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

God mocks him for thinking he is so smart - "Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel". Back in Daniel 8, he understands dark sentences, riddles, and has success but not by his power. He will be tapped into the occult - kabbalah, Jewish mysticism, as he will be a Jew.

3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:

God has the person killed for his audacious act of sitting in the temple...

6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;

7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.

8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.

9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

So he will be killed (the mortally wounded head, king, in Revelation 13:1-3) and brought down to the pit, hell. Which is in Isaiah 14.

Again he is mocked by them there, before God brings him back to life in Isaiah 14:18 because he destroys his land and his people - again because of God's great disdain for him because his ego and pride and involvement in the occult - all parts of the equation of him becoming the Antichrist, then later revealed as the man of sin, then after that becoming the beast of Revelation.

 

[stephen583]

There is still the future prophecy to flee into the mountains when the abomination of desolation is standing where it (not he) should not be, in the holy place, as spoken of by Daniel the prophet. Which when we go to Daniel 12, the abomination of desolation is time of the end when transportation and knowledge are increased - greatly, is what I think is being implied - our generation.

The idea the "Abomination of Desolation" standing in the holy place" being connected to an existing Third Jewish Temple is an "assumption" based on Extremist Futurist doctrine. it's a myth. It is not the only possible interpretation of Matthew 24:15. In point of fact, that particular interpretation isn't even consistent with Christian doctrine, which holds Levitical temple worship and the offering of animal sacrifices, was voided by the Advent of Christ and his blood sacrifice, which is sufficient to cover all sin. "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate" (Matthew 23:38).

"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you" (1 Corinthians 3:16).

What Matthew 24:15 is saying, is the Abomination of Desolation Antichrist, (WILL BE A CHRISTIAN)!!!
(whoso readeth, let him understand).

That's why the reader of Matthew 24:15 must exercise "UNDERSTANDING" to interpret the prophecy correctly. Of course any superficial or unscriptural examination is going to lead one to exactly the wrong interpretation. Hence the myth of a Third Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.

 

[stephen583]

Well, the prophecies have not been fulfilled because the Jews in Jerusalem and Judea have not fled to the mountains, as the 666 requirement goes hand in hand with the setting up of the Abomination of Desolation.

The 666 prophecy does go hand in hand with the setting up of the Abomination of Desolation. In fact, the antichrist figure called the Abomination of Desolation is an adherent to the 666 ideology. I believe I proved to you the prophecy of Revelation 13:18 was historically fulfilled during the Cold War era between 1947 and 1991. What do you think we should do ? Burn all the encyclopedia and history books in the world ?! Shut down the internet and Wikipedia ?! Seems extreme to me, and I don't think it's going to change the consequences of what's going to happen, one iota anyway. Repeating the Extreme Futurist mantra over, and over again that none of the Revelation Prophecies have yet been fulfilled is pointless.

As for me being in the wrong thread ?! I believe this thread is identified as a "Futurist" thread, not an "Extreme Futurist" thread. Although I believe many of the Revelation Prophecies have already been fulfilled in recent historic times, I also believe some of the Revelation Prophecies, (especially with regard to the Second Half of Tribulations, or the Great Tribulation Period), have yet to be fulfilled. Which I believe qualifies me as a partial "Futurist" at least.

I'll leave that to be determined by the moderators anyway, and not a CF member. Thank you very much anyway for your opinion.

 

[Douggg]

The 666 prophecy does go hand in hand with the setting up of the Abomination of Desolation. In fact, the antichrist figure called the Abomination of Desolation is an adherent to the 666 ideology. I believe I proved to you the prophecy of Revelation 13:18 was historically fulfilled during the Cold War era between 1947 and 1991. What do you think we should do ? Burn all the encyclopedia and history books in the world ?! Shut down the internet and Wikipedia ?! Seems extreme to me, and I don't think it's going to change the consequences of what's going to happen, one iota anyway. Repeating the Extreme Futurist mantra over, and over again that none of the Revelation Prophecies have yet been fulfilled is pointless.

As for me being in the wrong thread ?! I believe this thread is identified as a "Futurist" thread, not an "Extreme Futurist" thread. Although I believe many of the Revelation Prophecies have already been fulfilled in recent historic times, I also believe some of the Revelation Prophecies, (especially with regard to the Second Half of Tribulations, or the Great Tribulation Period), have yet to be fulfilled. Which I believe qualifies me as a partial "Futurist" at least.

I'll leave that to be determined by the moderators anyway, and not a CF member. Thank you very much anyway for your opinion.

Stephen, there was no temple standing during the cold war years. The 666 is tied to the beast. And the beast kills the two witnesses. And the two witnesses testify for 1260 days. And John is told to measure the temple - which the outer courter is given to the gentiles who occupy Jerusalem the 42 months, which the beast reigns the earth 42 months in Revelation 13. So there will be a temple, because John was told to measure it.

 

[Douggg]

As for me being in the wrong thread ?! I believe this thread is identified as a "Futurist" thread, not an "Extreme Futurist" thread. Although I believe many of the Revelation Prophecies have already been fulfilled in recent historic times, I also believe some of the Revelation Prophecies, (especially with regard to the Second Half of Tribulations, or the Great Tribulation Period), have yet to be fulfilled. Which I believe qualifies me as a partial "Futurist" at least.

I'll leave that to be determined by the moderators anyway, and not a CF member. Thank you very much anyway for your

Stephen, there are not categories of futurists and extreme futurists. If you believe 666 has already been fulfilled, you are not in the right thread.