you'll hate this thread, I guarantee it.

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I suppose we should stop singing the Psalms now, and quit attending prayer services too. I'll contact Antioch and Jerusalam later today and let them know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im3Wuv4ILAY&feature=related

Forgive me...

 

[Asinner]

That is very true. I grew up Jewish and have been to Reform, Conservative and Orthodox Jewish services. There is not a lot of difference in the three really.
And, I have also been to Catholic and Lutheran churches. I have not ever been to an Orthodox one.
But, the Catholic and Lutheran "services" are very similar to the Jewish ones.
However, is that what Christ wanted?
I don't think so.
He came to give Life!

The difference is this . . . The Jewish practices did not revolve around Jesus Christ.

Love,
Christina

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

In the new heavens and new earth, there will not be any religion. There will not be Catholicism or Orthodoxy or Protestantism or Judaism or paganism.
There will only be Christ!

How would the Jews view the new "heaven and land" since it was promised to them in conjunction with their New Covenant?
That is why Messianics still practice the Law/Judaism isn't it?

Matthew 5:18 "For amen I am saying to ye, till ever may-be-passing-away/parelqh <3928> (5632) the Heaven and the Land, iota one or one horn not no may-be-passing-away/parelqh <3928> (5632) from the Law, till ever all shall-be-becoming/genhtai <1096> (5638) "

Revelation 21:1 And I perceived a-Heaven, New, and a-Land, New, for the first heaven and the first land pass-away/parhlqen <3928> (5627)......
6 And He said to me:" it-has-become/gegonen <1096> (5754).

 

[CaDan]

I suppose we should stop singing the Psalms now, and quit attending prayer services too. I'll contact Antioch and Jerusalam later today and let them know.

<snip>

Forgive me...

Make sure the deacons have all upgraded to the latest version of Power Point, too!

 

[christianmomof3]

How would the Jews view the new "heaven and land" since it was promised to them in conjunction with their New Covenant?
That is why Messianics still practice the Law isn't it?

Matthew 5:18 "For amen I am saying to ye, till ever may-be-passing-away/parelqh <3928> (5632) the Heaven and the Land, iota one or one horn not no may-be-passing-away/parelqh <3928> (5632) from the Law, till ever all shall-be-becoming/genhtai <1096> (5638) "

Revelation 21:1 And I perceived a-Heaven, New, and a-Land, New, for the first heaven and the first land pass-away/parhlqen <3928> (5627)......
6 And He said to me:" it-has-become/gegonen <1096> (5754).

I am not sure that I understand your question.
I believe that there are some Jews who are supposed to keep practicing Judaism until the Lord returns and that is part of His plan.
I am not sure about gentiles practicing Judaism though.

 

[benedictaoo]

However, is that what Christ wanted?
I don't think so.
He came to give Life!

What?? How is life being deprived in those services?? What kind of false dichotomy is this?

And where dd Jesus ever say he did not want liturgical services? That they displease him, on what do you base this on?

You see, I have to back out of this, I have absolutely no patience for this...

Lord have mercy on me.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Make sure the deacons have all upgraded to the latest version of Power Point, too!

Right you are Chuck! And for our contestants that will be leaving us, we offer the home game too! But wait... that's not all.

If you call in the next ten minutes you will receive at no extra cost this fabulous set of ginsu knives!


Forgive me...

 

[sunlover1]

That is very true. I grew up Jewish and have been to Reform, Conservative and Orthodox Jewish services. There is not a lot of difference in the three really.
And, I have also been to Catholic and Lutheran churches. I have not ever been to an Orthodox one.
But, the Catholic and Lutheran "services" are very similar to the Jewish ones.
However, is that what Christ wanted?
I don't think so.
He came to give Life!
His goal was not to just have people continue in the Jewish practices, but to have people open their hearts to Him and take Him in as our Life!
Jesus's entire living was one that was outside of the normal Jewish religion. He was not born in Jerusalem, where the temple, holy priesthood and seat of the Jewish religion were.
He was not found by religious Jews, but by pagans who followed a heavenly star.
His ministry was not started in Jerusalem, but outside of it baptised by John who wore camels hair and did many other things that were against the laws of the Jewish religion.
The first people to follow Him were not priests and scribes, but Galilean fishermen.
When His followers became religious, He presented them with Life rather than with religion.
He feasted with the sinners, not with the scribes and pharisees.

His goal is not and was not to continue a religion, but to be our life. His ultimate goal is the New Jerusalem.
In the new heavens and new earth, there will not be any religion. There will not be Catholicism or Orthodoxy or Protestantism or Judaism or paganism.
There will only be Christ!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I am not sure that I understand your question.
I believe that there are some Jews who are supposed to keep practicing Judaism until the Lord returns and that is part of His plan.
I am not sure about gentiles practicing Judaism though.

Hi. Not to derail the thread, but any Jew converting to JESUS is a Messianic and the Jews view those converts as "gentile Christians". I suppose that is what I meant. Study on Messianics sometime. Peace.

2 Corin 5:17 So that if any in Christ, a new Creation, the ancient-things/arcaia <744> pass-away/parhlqen <3928> (5627). Behold! has-become/gegonen <1096> (5754) New the all-things

Revelation 21:4 and the God shall be out-rubbing every tear out of their eyes, and the death shall not be any more, nor sorrow, nor crying, nor shall there be any more pain, that the first-things/prwta <4413>pass away/aphlqon <565> (5627).'

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I am not sure that I understand your question.
I believe that there are some Jews who are supposed to keep practicing Judaism until the Lord returns and that is part of His plan.
I am not sure about gentiles practicing Judaism though.

INCORRECT. Judaism has been fulfilled.

Forgive me...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

INCORRECT. Judaism has been fulfilled.

Forgive me...

Edit to add {Book of Revelation shows how that has been fulfilled for the OC Nations of "judah/israel" in my view]

 

[christianmomof3]

Hi. Not to derail the thread, but any Jew converting to JESUS is a Messianic and the Jews view those converts as "gentile Christians". I suppose that is what I meant. Study on Messianics sometime. Peace.

2 Corin 5:17 So that if any in Christ, a new Creation, the ancient-things/arcaia <744> pass-away/parhlqen <3928> (5627). Behold! has-become/gegonen <1096> (5754) New the all-things

Revelation 21:4 and the God shall be out-rubbing every tear out of their eyes, and the death shall not be any more, nor sorrow, nor crying, nor shall there be any more pain, that the first-things/prwta <4413>pass away/aphlqon <565> (5627).'

I still am not following your question. I have looked into the Messianic Jewish religion and it has a variety of beliefs and practices found within it and is not easily defined.

By some definitions, I would be considered a Messianic Jew since I am Jewish, and am now a born again Christian.
By some other definitions, many in the Messianic Jewish religion would not consider me to be a Messianic Jew because I do not keep kosher or keep the Sabbath - both of which I did not do as a Reform Jew either.

However, in Christ there is no Jew or Greek.
In Christ, there is only Christ.

 

[Thekla]

the view proposed by the book in the OP seems to be very much the product of a western, modern mindset -- suggesting, then, that there was no "real Christianity" until now. Our modern, especially NAmerican, culture is suspicious of any sort of demands placed on us outside of the work environment. We decry 'kingship' , and resent order, seeing it as abrogating "personal freedom".

leitourgia means the work of the people, laos - the people of God.
Work, work done in common, implies a template for common expression. Even Quaker meetings demand some basic 'rules' or common agreement - even if this is a meeting time.

when Christ was preaching 'on the grass', He was speaking to the as yet unredeemed. When He spoke to the apostles, and met with them after the resurrection, the tenor of the interaction was dissimilar to the mode with the crowds.

what seems to be 'relaxed' in the interaction with the crowds was in fact highly particularized to their spiritual condition; He was, after all, their creator, and knew them best.

also, the view which questions 'leitourgia' (a view which is, in my view, individualistic, and often self-serving - as opposed to community oriented), fails to consider the idea perhaps of self-denial, the re-shaping afforded by praxis. Children are taught first to not cross the street before they can fully understand the implications of the lesson. The benefit of praxis can only be fully understood by experiencing the results of doing.

 

[benedictaoo]

the view proposed by the book in the OP seems to be very much the product of a western, modern mindset -- suggesting, then, that there was no "real Christianity" until now. Our modern, especially NAmerican, culture is suspicious of any sort of demands placed on us outside of the work environment. We decry 'kingship' , and resent order, seeing it as abrogating "personal freedom".

leitourgia means the work of the people, laos - the people of God.
Work, work done in common, implies a template for common expression. Even Quaker meetings demand some basic 'rules' or common agreement - even if this is a meeting time.

when Christ was preaching 'on the grass', He was speaking to the as yet unredeemed. When He spoke to the apostles, and met with them after the resurrection, the tenor of the interaction was dissimilar to the mode with the crowds.

what seems to be 'relaxed' in the interaction with the crowds was in fact highly particularized to their spiritual condition; He was, after all, their creator, and knew them best.

also, the view which questions 'leitourgia' (a view which is, in my view, individualistic, and often self-serving - as opposed to community oriented), fails to consider the idea perhaps of self-denial, the re-shaping afforded by praxis. Children are taught first to not cross the street before they can fully understand the implications of the lesson. The benefit of praxis can only be fully understood by experiencing the results of doing.

I'm a westerner... I don't think that, so no it's not western mind set, please stop with the painting all with the same brush.

It's Protestant mind set that so happen to be from the western part of the spear.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

leitourgia means the work of the people, laos - the people of God.
Work, work done in common, implies a template for common expression. Even Quaker meetings demand some basic 'rules' or common agreement - even if this is a meeting time.

Greetings Thekla. Does that come from the greek word used in this passage?

edit to add:I may go to TAW and ask them about this as I am not as good with the Greek as the Orthodox appear to be.

Reve 22:3 And every anathema/kat-anaqema <2652> not shall be longer, and the throne of the God, and of the Lamb-kin in her shall be. And the bond-servents/douloi <1401> of Him shall-be-offering-divine-service/latreusousin <3000> (5692) to Him.

 

[WarriorAngel]

That is very true. I grew up Jewish and have been to Reform, Conservative and Orthodox Jewish services. There is not a lot of difference in the three really.
And, I have also been to Catholic and Lutheran churches. I have not ever been to an Orthodox one.
But, the Catholic and Lutheran "services" are very similar to the Jewish ones.
However, is that what Christ wanted?

The difference is this . . . The Jewish practices did not revolve around Jesus Christ.

Love,
Christina

 

[intricatic]

Why are you here???

Peace

Either to stir the pot, or to express true things. One of the two.

I'm about as anti-existential as you can get. :o

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I'm a westerner... I don't think that, so no it's not western mind set, please stop with the painting all with the same brush.

It's Protestant mind set that so happen to be from the western part of the spear.

Don't leave out the "CHRIST-ian" mindset.

1 Peter 4:16 If yet as a Christian/cristianon <5546>, let him not be being ashamed!; let him be glorifying yet the God in the name/respect, this.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Thekla again.

 

[Thekla]

I'm a westerner... I don't think that, so no it's not western mind set, please stop with the painting all with the same brush.

It's Protestant mind set that so happen to be from the western part of the spear.

ok, its the dominant western mindset -- a generalization, of course

EDIT: you are an anomaly

 

[WarriorAngel]

The litugry written by St James shows the Apostles kept the Jewish practice of the liturgy...
Except of course the Eucharist, and NT readings and Gospel. [etc etc] Were from the New Covenant.