you'll hate this thread, I guarantee it.

[OrthodoxyUSA]

OrthodoxyUSA unsubscribes.

Forgive me...

 

[WarriorAngel]

It remains outrageous when we surrender.

Over the years I have seen what appeared to be seemingly undeniable errors, or contradictions, cleared up by someone qualified to see what was going on. After enough of those eye openers, I dropped the temptation to surrender.

Philippians 1:9 (New International Version)​

"And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight." ​

​

In Christ, GeneZ




.

I have no idea what this means.
Surrender to what?
God?

Could you clarify...and I wont be back til this afternoon sometime, i think. Depending if i get a call.

Your church believes Jesus was born with a sin nature that he overcame. Right?

God never had a sin nature.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Its rather that Protestantism does not treat believers like they are all ignorant, illiterate peasants, having to be told what to believe. As the world was like when the system surrounding the pope was formed.

Protestantism puts more faith in the Holy Spirit leading each believer (if, he's Spirit filled) into all the truth that is required of him by God. The Pope, in contrast; is a system designed to get everyone conforming to his dictates of what to believe.... including even those who fail to be filled with the Spirit. Yes, it can create a unity of the people in one sense. But its not according to the filling of the Spirit. Its conforming to the dictates of a man made system.

I would rather have a system that allows for believers going in many different directions, that gives the freedom for those who are Spirit led to find truth the others will not. Than have a man driven system which demands conformity to a system, which produces a unity. But, that has in many ways gotten away from Biblical Christianity. A system with no freedom for finding corrections to errors without being labeled a heretic.


So be it.


In Christ, GeneZ



.

Well, it worked for 1500 years of ppl relying on Christ to keep His word and keep His Church from error...
SO I would go with the Church's teaching that has been here from the start.

How does one know they have the SPirit and are being led.
I thot John was succint and clear in warning us to avoid ppl with different doctrines, Gospels and their own ideas.

I am quite sure HE said not to even say 'hello' so as not to partake in their errors..

NOW you say division and schisms and all sorts of doctrines are good.
I think i will stick to John's version. ITS in the Bible.

Now as for the whole...non liturgy scenerio... thats just modern day man invented.

 

[holdon]

I think that the so-called "orthodox" (which they are not) are even further from the truth than the Roman Catholics. It is just unfathomable the stuff they throw out here.

Could it be coincidence that when Paul said that all in Asia had abandoned him, this religion has the origins in that precise area?

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

I think that the so-called "orthodox" (which they are not) are even further from the truth than the Roman Catholics. It is just unfathomable the stuff they throw out here.

Could it be coincidence that when Paul said that all in Asia had abandoned him, this religion has the origins in that precise area?

On the contrary, the Orthodox Church has origins in Asia Minor, Africa, Jerusalem, Antioch, Rome, Greece, etc.

You have every right to hold this opinion that you have expressed. Just remember, they've never built a statue to honor a critic.

 

[Uphill Battle]

I have no problem with someone not liking our style of worship- to each their own.
What I find offensive is the accusation that has been levelled here: That our worship- and that of all liturgical Christians- is "religious" - ie false, unspiritual, and bondage.

non of which I've said. I tried to explain why I reject it. The 600 plus posts have been about how wrong the other side is, and what devils we all are.

I have no such view of non-liturgical worship.

I am surprised to see you leave your neutrality here. You're a good sort, and I hope you regain it.

we'll see.

I think that the so-called "orthodox" (which they are not) are even further from the truth than the Roman Catholics. It is just unfathomable the stuff they throw out here.

Could it be coincidence that when Paul said that all in Asia had abandoned him, this religion has the origins in that precise area?

If you are critically examining the issue, I don't think you could come up with that.

 

[Asinner]

I think that the so-called "orthodox" (which they are not) are even further from the truth than the Roman Catholics. It is just unfathomable the stuff they throw out here.

Could it be coincidence that when Paul said that all in Asia had abandoned him, this religion has the origins in that precise area?

God bless

 

[holdon]

On the contrary, the Orthodox Church has origins in Asia Minor, Africa, Jerusalem, Antioch, Rome, Greece, etc.

You have every right to hold this opinion that you have expressed. Just remember, they've never built a statue to honor a critic.

If you would be acquainted with history, you would see that it is....

 

[WarriorAngel]

non of which I've said. I tried to explain why I reject it. The 600 plus posts have been about how wrong the other side is, and what devils we all are.


we'll see.

If you are critically examining the issue, I don't think you could come up with that.

Well, your post ended up being post #666. :o

[Dont ya hate when that happens] and since you mentioned devils... well.







How about you give some time now Uphill.
You read a critic of the liturgical celebration and worship..
NOW give some equal time, and read a book about the history of liturgical worship.

Is that fair?

 

[Uphill Battle]

Well, your post ended up being post #666. :o

[Dont ya hate when that happens] and since you mentioned devils... well.







How about you give some time now Uphill.
You read a critic of the liturgical celebration and worship..
NOW give some equal time, and read a book about the history of liturgical worship.

Is that fair?

sure, it's fair. Got a book handy?

and besides, the book itself doesn't go out of it's way to bad mouth liturgical service. (I don't think it uses the word liturgy at all, in fact.)

 

[Philothei]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdr Iakovos
On the contrary, the Orthodox Church has origins in Asia Minor, Africa, Jerusalem, Antioch, Rome, Greece, etc.

You have every right to hold this opinion that you have expressed. Just remember, they've never built a statue to honor a critic.

If you would be acquainted with history, you would see that it is....




I think that the so-called "orthodox" (which they are not) are even further from the truth than the Roman Catholics. It is just unfathomable the stuff they throw out here.

Could it be coincidence that when Paul said that all in Asia had abandoned him, this religion has the origins in that precise area?




Hey Hordon,

I guess you can claim otherwise and .... change history and establish a conspiracy theory. But the Christian history of the East is too long and very fruitful in the Lord's vineyard to do that....

Christianity started in the East... believe or not unless you have a georgraphical dissorientation syndrome....

 

[holo]

Well, it worked for 1500 years of ppl relying on Christ to keep His word and keep His Church from error...

Uhh... the Catholic church has been free from error?

 

[Uphill Battle]

Uhh... the Catholic church has been free from error?

according to the Catholic church, anywho.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Uhh... the Catholic church has been free from error?

Well, if you could possibly look at scripture and tell me if you agree.

'The gates of hell shall not prevail'

From this we do know a few things...
That Christ made a definite promise. Correct?

That He stated 'gates of hell' which is anything that would lead us astray to go to hell...will not prevail.
Correct?

IE, hell's errors will not penetrate nor will it lead ppl to hell or astray. Correct?

And not prevail means it cannot win, or overtake.
Correct?

THUS, we can conclude that error that would lead ppl astray to hell will never occur because that would mean that hell won or took over and souls would be hell bound.

Correct?

First i have to see if we are on the same page here with what Christ said.

sure, it's fair. Got a book handy?

and besides, the book itself doesn't go out of it's way to bad mouth liturgical service. (I don't think it uses the word liturgy at all, in fact.)

I think the members of OBOB or even TAW or OO might have a book available...
Some bookworms i am sure in those areas.

I am partial to the OBOB area... but i think you can probably find a good read in any ancient Churches library [albeit schismed] ...since we all came from one root.

 

[christianmomof3]

'The gates of hell shall not prevail'

From this we do know a few things...
That Christ made a definite promise. Correct?

That He stated 'gates of hell' which is anything that would lead us astray to go to hell...will not prevail.
Correct?

IE, hell's errors will not penetrate nor will it lead ppl to hell or astray. Correct?

And not prevail means it cannot win, or overtake.
Correct?

THUS, we can conclude that error that would lead ppl astray to hell will never occur because that would mean that hell won or took over and souls would be hell bound.

That certainly is an interesting interpretation of what that verse means. The verse does not mention error anywhere. I do not see a definition of the gates of hell being anything that would lead us astray to go to hell included in that verse either.
Here is another interpretation:
Matthew 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

Gates of Hades refers to Satan's authority or power of darkness (Col. 1:13; Acts 26:18), which cannot prevail against the genuine church built by Christ upon this revelation concerning Him as the rock, with stones such as Peter, a transformed human being. This word of the Lord's indicates also that Satan's power of darkness will attack the church. Hence, there is spiritual warfare between Satan's power, which is his kingdom, and the church, which is God's kingdom.
http://online.recoveryversion.org/

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

If you would be acquainted with history, you would see that it is....

Not only am I acquainted with history, I've taught it. My mentor received his credentials as a historian and as a theolgian from Columbia University, St Vladimir's and Holy Cross, and was an expert in the development of Byzantine theology and the history of the near East.

I myself attended state college as an undergrad and as a graduate student- but I paid close attention.

Now, please feel free to start a thread and drop sources- and prepare to be set free from the ramblings of the second source redactors.

 

[christianmomof3]

Not only am I acquainted with history, I've taught it. My mentor received his credentials as a historian and as a theolgian from Columbia University, St Vladimir's and Holy Cross, and was an expert in the development of Byzantine theology and the history of the near East.

I myself attended state college as an undergrad and as a graduate student- but I paid close attention.

Now, please feel free to start a thread and drop sources- and prepare to be set free from the ramblings of the second source redactors.

Who did you teach history to? What history course did you teach? I taught 6th grade social studies for several years.

 

[jckstraw72]

Who did you teach history to? What history course did you teach? I taught 6th grade social studies for several years.

i substituted in an elementary art classroom yesterday

 

[holo]

Well, if you could possibly look at scripture and tell me if you agree.

'The gates of hell shall not prevail'

From this we do know a few things...
That Christ made a definite promise. Correct?

That He stated 'gates of hell' which is anything that would lead us astray to go to hell...will not prevail.
Correct?

IE, hell's errors will not penetrate nor will it lead ppl to hell or astray. Correct?

And not prevail means it cannot win, or overtake.
Correct?

THUS, we can conclude that error that would lead ppl astray to hell will never occur because that would mean that hell won or took over and souls would be hell bound.

Correct?

No, gates aren't something that overtakes people. Gates are at the entrance of a building or a kingdom or whatever, and if the gates of hell don't prevail against the church, it means that the church is overcoming the gates and plundering hell (or whatever exactly it is that the church does to it). Gates don't lead anyone astray.

Anyway, that verse doesn't in any way say that the catholic church is infallible or anything to that effect.

 

[jckstraw72]

well if the Church that the Apostles became corrupted and change its beliefs then its no longer the same Church. then the true Church of the Apostles would be dead.