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You might be Emergent if...

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This blog (part of the Christianity Today Intl. family of websites with which I am all-too familiar) quotes the book Why We’re Not Emergent: By Two Guys Who Should Be(Moody, 2008). I wanted to share the quote and get your thoughts on it.

http://blog.christianitytoday.com/outofur/archives/2008/04/you_might_be_em.html

small portion:
if you’ve ever been to a church with prayer labyrinths, candles, Play-Doh, chalk-drawings, couches, or beanbags (your youth group doesn’t count); if you loathe words like linear, propositional, rational, machine, and hierarchy and use words like ancient-future, jazz, mosaic, matrix, missional, vintage, and dance; if you grew up in a very conservative Christian home that in retrospect seems legalistic, naïve, and rigid; if you support women in all levels of ministry, prioritize urban over suburban, and like your theology narrative instead of systematic;
(the list goes on and on :))
Do you find this list to be sarcastic? Perhaps poking fun? Perfectly serious? A good description? A futile attempt to define an indefinable movement? Any items to add to the list?

Basically, talk about what it says. Because gollywhittakers, I wanna know.
 

spinningtutu

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After reading that blog, I've come to the conclusion that...

if you listen to U2, I used to listen to U2 as a kid in the 80s, don't anymore tho
Moby, on and off in college
and Johnny Cash’s Hurt (sometimes in church), I like the original Nine Inch Nails version better
use sermon illustrations from The Sopranos, drink lattes in the afternoon and Guinness in the evenings, and always use a Mac; huh?? Lost me on this one
if your reading list consists primarily of Stanley Hauerwas, yes
Henri Nouwen, yes
N. T. Wright, yes, tho I also read John Crossan & others from the Jesus Seminar
Stan Grenz, Dallas Willard, Brennan Manning, too conservative for my test
Jim Wallis, yes... God's Politics was awesome
Frederick Buechner, yes
David Bosch, too conservative
John Howard Yoder, yes
Wendell Berry, Nancy Murphy, John Frank, who are these people???
Walter Winks, actually its Walter Wink, but yes, he is awesome... I especially recommend the Powers that Be
and Lesslie Newbigin (not to mention McLaren, Pagitt, Bell, etc.) can I add Tony Campolo, Anne Lamott, Obery Hendricks, Ron Sider and a few others to Brian McLaren?
and your sparring partners include D. A. Carson, John Calvin, Martyn Lloyd-Jones, and Wayne Grudem; yes, these and others. I had to read Grudem in seminary, truly sick stuff.
I'm also very into liberation theologies... Rosemary Ruether, Katie Canon, James Cone, just to name a few. Not to mention my excessive collection on queer studies...
if your idea of quintessential Christian discipleship is Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King Jr., Nelson Mandela, or Desmond Tutu; yes
if you don’t like George W. Bush or institutions or big business or capitalism or Left Behind Christianity; Amen
if your political concerns are poverty, AIDS, imperialism, war-mongering, CEO salaries, consumerism, global warming, racism, and oppression yes
and not so much abortion and gay marriage; I'm with the pro-Lifers on the former and with the radical queer activists on the latter
if you are into bohemian, goth, GOTH! Now we're getting somewhere
rave, or indie; sure
if you talk about the myth of redemptive violence and the myth of certainty; absolutely
if you lie awake at night having nightmares about all the ways modernism has ruined your life; lol, exagerated, but yes
if you love the Bible as a beautiful, inspiring collection of works that lead us into the mystery of God but is not inerrant; yes... although it is the infallible logos too
if you search for truth but aren’t sure it can be found; sort of
if you’ve ever been to a church with prayer labyrinths, candles, Play-Doh, chalk-drawings, couches, or beanbags (your youth group doesn’t count); yes
if you loathe words like linear, propositional, rational, machine, and hierarchy no, yes, no, yes, yes
and use words like ancient-future, jazz, mosaic, matrix, missional, vintage, and dance; no, no, no, no, no, no and yes
if you grew up in a very conservative Christian home that in retrospect seems legalistic, naïve, and rigid; yes
if you support women in all levels of ministry, yes... and queers
prioritize urban over suburban, yes
and like your theology narrative instead of systematic;both are valid/necessary & both need to be deconstructed/reconstructed & demythologized/remythologized
if you disbelieve in any sacred-secular divide; yes
if you want to be the church and not just go to church;yes
if you long for a community that is relational, tribal, and primal like a river or a garden; yes
if you believe who goes to hell is no one’s business and no one may be there anyway; not exactly
if you believe salvation has a little to do with atoning for guilt and a lot to do with bringing the whole creation back into shalom with its Maker; sorta... you do the former by doing the latter
if you believe following Jesus is not believing the right things but living the right way; no, its both... correct action as a result of correct belief
if it really bugs you when people talk about going to heaven instead of heaven coming to us; yes
if you disdain monological, didactic preaching; yes
if you use the word “story” in all your propositions about postmodernism—maybe
if all or most of this torturously long sentence describes you, then you might be an emergent Christian.

I guess the "mosts" have it and Paxigoth would appear to be a...

*Gothic, deconstructed, politically-left, theologically-right, queer, feminist... Emergent Christian
yay for me :)
 
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Yuanshen

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Have you ever been to the website that goes along with that book? You should go there, it's really good.

Yes I really enjoy the heretic book.

I think more people need to leave church and just go straight to God. The church people always talk about it being a "personal relationship" - so let us believe what we want in our personal relationship!

The heretic book does a good job of talking about all these things.

yuan
 
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Adammi

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This blog (part of the Christianity Today Intl. family of websites with which I am all-too familiar) quotes the book Why We’re Not Emergent: By Two Guys Who Should Be(Moody, 2008). I wanted to share the quote and get your thoughts on it.

http://blog.christianitytoday.com/outofur/archives/2008/04/you_might_be_em.html

small portion:
(the list goes on and on :))
Do you find this list to be sarcastic? Perhaps poking fun? Perfectly serious? A good description? A futile attempt to define an indefinable movement? Any items to add to the list?

Basically, talk about what it says. Because gollywhittakers, I wanna know.
I knew it before I read this, but yes, it's official. I am emergent.
 
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progressivegal

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Have you ever been to the website that goes along with that book? You should go there, it's really good.

Yes I really enjoy the heretic book.

I think more people need to leave church and just go straight to God. The church people always talk about it being a "personal relationship" - so let us believe what we want in our personal relationship!

The heretic book does a good job of talking about all these things.

yuan
The ooze.com? I have, last year I used to post there regularly, I kind of got away from it though. Spencer Burke is a really cool guy (He's even my friend on facebook :D).
I really like that his book portrayed people being "More Spiritual Than Religious" as a positive thing :)
 
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Yup, I'm emergent but shh . . . don't tell anyone. It isn't obvious. ;)

I think there was sarcasm mixed with truth in the blog.

I'm a huge Johnny Cash fan but that happened long before I even knew what emergent was.

Sure there are some things on the list that don't fit me but isn't that the beauty of it?
 
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Joykins

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...

if you listen to U2,
bleah
bleah

and Johnny Cash’s Hurt (sometimes in church),
That's more like it.
use sermon illustrations from The Sopranos, drink lattes in the afternoon and Guinness in the evenings, and always use a Mac; if your reading list consists primarily of Stanley Hauerwas, Henri Nouwen,
huh?

N. T. Wright,
That's more like it.
Stan Grenz, Dallas Willard, Brennan Manning,
huh?

Jim Wallis,
that's more like it
Frederick Buechner, David Bosch, John Howard Yoder, Wendell Berry, Nancy Murphy, John Frank
huh?
Walter Wink, and Lesslie Newbigin (not to mention McLaren, Pagitt, Bell, etc.)


That's more like it.
[...]
if your idea of quintessential Christian discipleship is Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King Jr., Nelson Mandela, or Desmond Tutu; if you don’t like George W. Bush or institutions or big business or capitalism or Left Behind Christianity; if your political concerns are poverty, AIDS, imperialism, war-mongering, CEO salaries, consumerism, global warming, racism, and oppression
and not so much abortion and gay marriage;[/quote]YES
if you are into bohemian, goth, rave, or indie;
I am not only indie, I am MARRIED to indie. Actually, I am indie enough to be FOLK and I am married to AMBIENT.
if you talk about the myth of redemptive violence and the myth of certainty;
now we're talkin'
if you lie awake at night having nightmares about all the ways modernism has ruined your life;
oh please

if you love the Bible as a beautiful, inspiring collection of works that lead us into the mystery of God but is not inerrant;
of course

if you search for truth but aren’t sure it can be found;
sure

if you’ve ever been to a church with prayer labyrinths, candles, Play-Doh, chalk-drawings, couches, or beanbags (your youth group doesn’t count);
Never.

if you loathe words like linear, propositional, rational, machine, and hierarchy
No, although I'll admit that linear algebra will, due to the accent of my instructor, always make me think of mattresses.

and use words like ancient-future, jazz, mosaic, matrix, missional, vintage, and dance;
well OF COURSE....

if you grew up in a very conservative Christian home that in retrospect seems legalistic, naïve, and rigid;
well, PARTIALLY...

if you support women in all levels of ministry,
LORD yes.

prioritize urban over suburban,
My BLOG is titled "Radio Free Suburbia," what do you think?

and like your theology narrative instead of systematic;
Yeah...
if you disbelieve in any sacred-secular divide; if you want to be the church and not just go to church; if you long for a community that is relational, tribal, and primal like a river or a garden;
oh please. I want to go to church. Don't we all want to just GO to church? Being church is hard. Going to church is easy peasy as my old friend used to say.

if you believe who goes to hell is no one’s business
NOOOO!!! Is everyone's!

and no one may be there anyway;
Wishful thinking. My wish. I wish people had no evil to do also.

if you believe salvation has a little to do with atoning for guilt and a lot to do with bringing the whole creation back into shalom with its Maker;
There's a difference??????
if you believe following Jesus is not believing the right things but living the right way;
No; is BOTH.

if it really bugs you when people talk about going to heaven instead of heaven coming to us;
Is not heaven. Is resurrection.

iif you disdain monological, didactic preaching;
Really, I'm there for the jokes ^_^
if you use the word “story” in all your propositions about postmodernism—if all or most of this torturously long sentence describes you, then you might be an emergent Christian.
I can't tell ^_^
 
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Kris10leigh

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Let me just say I hate stereotypes.

Now, moving onwards from that point......it's a poor attempt to define an indefinable movement.

I agree. I thought it was funny and amusing, and maybe sarcastic, but overall I think it certainly doesn't fit everyone within the movement.

I've never really considered the term "emergent" before, but based on that quote alone, I probably am not. ;) (Though SOME of it fits me)
 
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Izdaari Eristikon

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'Emergent Pentecostal' is in my title, but...

if you listen to U2, nope, not a U2 fan, though I don't hate them

Moby, ditto, not a Moby fan either

and Johnny Cash’s Hurt (sometimes in church), I like the Cash version of it, but I don't see how it would fit into church

use sermon illustrations from The Sopranos, drink lattes in the afternoon and Guinness in the evenings, and always use a Mac; I might sometimes be guilty of most of that, but I don't own a Mac

if your reading list consists primarily of Stanley Hauerwas, Henri Nouwen, I don't know those authors

N. T. Wright, I like him very much

Stan Grenz, Dallas Willard, Brennan Manning, I don't know them

Jim Wallis, Good approach, but since I'm libertarian-right, his left-liberal politics doesn't work for me.

Frederick Buechner, David Bosch, John Howard Yoder, Wendell Berry, Nancy Murphy, John Frank, Walter Winks, and Lesslie Newbigin (not to mention McLaren, Pagitt, Bell, etc.) Of all those, I only know McLaren and Bell, and I like them very much.

and your sparring partners include D. A. Carson, John Calvin, Martyn Lloyd-Jones, and Wayne Grudem; Of those I only know Calvin, and I agree with him to an extent.

if your idea of quintessential Christian discipleship is Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King Jr., Nelson Mandela, or Desmond Tutu;
Mother T. and MLK, yes. Not so much Mandela or Tutu.

if you don’t like George W. Bush or institutions or big business or capitalism or Left Behind Christianity; I have no quarrel with Bush, as last as compared to the alternatives we were offered. I love capitalism, and by capitalism, I mean real laissez-faire capitalism, not big-government corporatism. I like small business a lot better than big business. I enjoyed reading the Left Behind series, but I'm unconvinced by their eschatology.

if your political concerns are poverty, AIDS, imperialism, war-mongering, CEO salaries, consumerism, global warming, racism, and oppression nope, not my major issues -- or at least not the terms in which I would frame them.

and not so much abortion and gay marriage; also not my major issues.

if you are into bohemian, goth, goth to an extent

rave, or indie; not expecially

if you talk about the myth of redemptive violence and the myth of certainty; not at all

if you lie awake at night having nightmares about all the ways modernism has ruined your life; never

if you love the Bible as a beautiful, inspiring collection of works that lead us into the mystery of God but is not inerrant; Mystery yes, inerrant no, but although I wouldn't say inerrant, I would say divinely inspired, reliable and authoritative.

if you search for truth but aren’t sure it can be found; no

if you’ve ever been to a church with prayer labyrinths, candles, Play-Doh, chalk-drawings, couches, or beanbags (your youth group doesn’t count); no, but it sounds cool

if you loathe words like linear, propositional, rational, machine, and hierarchy maybe, yes, no, yes, depending

and use words like ancient-future, jazz, mosaic, matrix, missional, vintage, and dance; sure, in an appropriate context

if you grew up in a very conservative Christian home that in retrospect seems legalistic, naïve, and rigid; I didn't grow up in one, but those kinds of homes do seem that way to me.

if you support women in all levels of ministry, yes

prioritize urban over suburban, well, I live in a city

and like your theology narrative instead of systematic; both are useful in different ways

if you disbelieve in any sacred-secular divide; maybe, depending on what you mean

if you want to be the church and not just go to church; yes

if you long for a community that is relational, tribal, and primal like a river or a garden; yes

if you believe who goes to hell is no one’s business and no one may be there anyway; all that is for God to decide

if you believe salvation has a little to do with atoning for guilt and a lot to do with bringing the whole creation back into shalom with its Maker; I can't improve on how Paxi put it: "sorta... you do the former by doing the latter"

if you believe following Jesus is not believing the right things but living the right way; both are important

if it really bugs you when people talk about going to heaven instead of heaven coming to us; both are true

if you disdain monological, didactic preaching; 'disdain' might be too strong a word. I'd rather just say it's not my favorite style.

if you use the word “story” in all your propositions about postmodernism— no, but it's a good word

if all or most of this torturously long sentence describes you, then you might be an emergent Christian.

So I'm a politically libertarian-right, theologically moderate to conservative, more emergent than not, charismissional Christ-follower! But I already knew that. :cool:

And I guess I have a lot of reading to catch up on. :sigh:
 
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progressivegal

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I'll play!
if you listen to U2, Not really, I was just telling my husband yesterday how overrated they are. I mean, U2 is OK, but they're not the Beatles or anything. bono is cool I guess.

Moby, He seems like a cool guy, but I can't think of one of his songs


and Johnny Cash’s Hurt If I've heard it, I didn't know I was hearing it. Again, Johnny Cash seems like a cool guy. I saw "Walk the Line" on a plane once.
use sermon illustrations from The Sopranos, drink lattes in the afternoon and Guinness in the evenings, and always use a Mac; Are you sure this list isn't about hipsters?
I've seen like one episode of the sopranos, I drink lattes like they're going out of style (just had one), I like macs but don't own one, nor have I ever, and I've heard tell guiness is yummy but only had but a sip.

if your reading list consists primarily of Stanley Hauerwas, Henri Nouwen, I've never heard of either


N. T. Wright,Never read anything by him, but he seems like a descent, rational, and charitable guy from what I know. Is it true he could be the next Archbishop of Cantabury?


Stan Grenz, Dallas Willard, Brennan Manning, I've heard of the last two, not the first


Jim Wallis I think he's a great guy, I love his stuff for Sojourners (great mag) and agree with him politically, but I found "God's Politics" to be hard to read. Not so much a fan of him as an author, but definitely as a human being.


Frederick Buechner, David Bosch, John Howard Yoder, Wendell Berry, Nancy Murphy, John Frank, Walter Winks, and Lesslie Newbigin (not to mention McLaren, Pagitt, Bell, etc.) I l too only know McLaren and Bell. I like what I've read by McLauren (though I was in a different spiritual place when I read his stuff, I think his work is good and his heart is pure). Ditto for Bell, though I've met him, and he's a fixture in my area so I have a more "personal connection" to him I guess and though I probably agree with McLauren more, I find myself more "protective" of Bell. He's done a lot of good for my community. and your sparring partners include D. A. Carson, John Calvin, Martyn Lloyd-Jones, and Wayne Grudem;
I live in the Reformed capitol of the USA so I know Calvin ism pretty well (and that I disagree with it). The others I have no idea about.
if your idea of quintessential Christian discipleship is Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King Jr., Nelson Mandela, or Desmond Tutu; Definitely if you don’t like George W. Bush or institutions or big business or capitalism or Left Behind Christianity; Yes to the above if your political concerns are poverty, AIDS, imperialism, war-mongering, CEO salaries, consumerism, global warming, racism, and oppression Pretty much

and not so much abortion and gay marriage; again, agree


if you are into bohemian, goth,
Not goth, but I'm pretty crunchy, some would say bohemian. I would be if I could afford to be :p

rave, or indie; I'm not quite sure what "indie" is, but it sounds cool.


if you talk about the myth of redemptive violence and the myth of certainty; I talk about them both fairly often, but don't use those particular terms. if you lie awake at night having nightmares about all the ways modernism has ruined your life; maybe once if you love the Bible as a beautiful, inspiring collection of works that lead us into the mystery of God but is not inerrant; I'm down with that if you search for truth but aren’t sure it can be found;
kinda, again I wouldn't put it that way.

if you’ve ever been to a church with prayer labyrinths, candles, Play-Doh, chalk-drawings, couches, or beanbags (your youth group doesn’t count); The local Dominican center (which is AWESOME) has a labyrinth, but I've never been to it (want to though) and I've gone to workshops there, but never to church. if you loathe words like linear, propositional, rational, machine, and hierarchy "Machine" the others I don't have any particular feelings about, their just words to me. and use words like ancient-future, jazz, mosaic, matrix, missional, vintage, and dance; Most of them, but usually in a "literal" context. What the heck is "Ancient Future" though?

if you grew up in a very conservative Christian home that in retrospect seems legalistic, naïve, and rigid;
My parents were/are moderate-liberal Catholics, my grand parents too, and my Aunt (who played a huge part in my upbringing) is what I would describe as a "New Age Christian" so no.
if you support women in all levels of ministry,
yes

prioritize urban over suburban,
usuallyand like your theology narrative instead of systematic;I would say so

if you disbelieve in any sacred-secular divide; possibley


if you want to be the church and not just go to church;
yeah...

if you long for a community that is relational, tribal, and primal like a river or a garden;Sometimes, but I need my lattes.


if you believe who goes to hell is no one’s business and no one may be there anyway; true. I don't believe in a literal "Hell"

if you believe salvation has a little to do with atoning for guilt and a lot to do with bringing the whole creation back into shalom with its Maker; Well put


if you believe following Jesus is not believing the right things but living the right way;
I do for the most part.

if it really bugs you when people talk about going to heaven instead of heaven coming to us; Actually I prefer to think of Heaven as something that is already here, not something that's coming :)


if you disdain monological, didactic preaching; disdain it? I'm not sure I know what it is.

if you use the word “story” in all your propositions about postmodernism—No. I don't think I've ever used that word in a conversation about "postmodernism", unless I was talking about postmodern dance, and then I would be talking about the absence of "story".

if all or most of this torturously long sentence describes you, then you might be an emergent Christian.

 
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Adammi

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Filling this out looks fun, so here it goes.

I'll play!
if you listen to U2, I like a couple of his songs, but I'm not a raging fan. I DO like his involvement in charities.

Moby, I adore him.

and Johnny Cash’s Hurt In an ideal world, there would be no Johnny Cash

use sermon illustrations from The Sopranos, drink lattes in the afternoon and Guinness in the evenings, and always use a Mac; Yes to the lattes, but not to any of the rest, though my mouth does water over the new Mac Air, but i don't have that kind of money.

if your reading list consists primarily of Stanley Hauerwas, Henri Nouwen, Who?

N. T. Wright, I'm a fan, but I like Marcus Borg better, but the simple fact that Wright and Borg get a long makes me like Wright even more.

Stan Grenz, Dallas Willard, Brennan Manning, I love Manning and I've heard good of Willard.

Jim Wallis I agree with his politics for the most part, but I think that creating a "religious left" would only worsen the problems of the American Church

Frederick Buechner, David Bosch, John Howard Yoder, Wendell Berry, Nancy Murphy, John Frank, Walter Winks, and Lesslie Newbigin (not to mention McLaren, Pagitt, Bell, etc.) I only know Bell and McLaren, both of whom I love. I like them both. I like Bell more so than McLaren, but I agree with McLaren more so than Bell. I am more liberal than both of them though, but that's probably for the best. I have well developed theories about both of them, my friends laugh about it.


and your sparring partners include D. A. Carson, John Calvin, Martyn Lloyd-Jones, and Wayne Grudem;
I've only heard of Calvin, who I disagree with for the most part, though I do consider myself to be a liberal Calvinist. I wish that Calvinism would have been name after someone other than John Calvin, because I really despise the man.


if your idea of quintessential Christian discipleship is Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King Jr., Nelson Mandela, or Desmond Tutu;
Yes, I think that these are four of the most important Christian leaders of our time. The Apostles of the 21st Century if you will, and honestly I think that if you dislike these four, then you have completely missed the entire point of Christianity, though perhaps I'm the one have has missed the point.


Definitely if you don’t like George W. Bush or institutions or big business or capitalism or Left Behind Christianity;
I hate all three, especially Left Behind Christianity, it's the scorn of the Earth.



Yes to the above if your political concerns are poverty, AIDS, imperialism, war-mongering, CEO salaries, consumerism, global warming, racism, and oppression Pretty much
YES!!

and not so much abortion and gay marriage; No, abortion and gay marriage are huge issues with me. I think that they are basic human rights causes. I'm pro-choice and pro-gay rights to the core.

if you are into bohemian, goth, rave, or indie; I like some indie, but I really have never understood how indie can be classified as a genre. The basic premise of it is that it isn't a genrea. I don't like the others. Though if by rave they mean techno, then I am all there. I worship at the altar of techno.

if you talk about the myth of redemptive violence and the myth of certainty; I'm not exactly sure what all these sophisticated-sounding terms mean, but I do like the sound of it


if you lie awake at night having nightmares about all the ways modernism has ruined your life; maybe once if you love the Bible as a beautiful, inspiring collection of works that lead us into the mystery of God but is not inerrant; Yup

if you’ve ever been to a church with prayer labyrinths, candles, Play-Doh, chalk-drawings, couches, or beanbags (your youth group doesn’t count); I love the idea of prayer labyrinths, but I've never done one. I do love play-doh, but I haven't done it in church since children's church when I was 8. We do have couches and beanbags and candles. Oh wait....youth group doesn't count. Ok, only candles.


if you loathe words like linear, propositional, rational, machine, and hierarchy I have no particular problems with these words

and use words like ancient-future, jazz, mosaic, matrix, missional, vintage, and dance; You bet

if you grew up in a very conservative Christian home that in retrospect seems legalistic, naïve, and rigid; Yes

if you support women in all levels of ministry, Totally

prioritize urban over suburban, Yes, but I'm actually liking some rural at the moment.

and like your theology narrative instead of systematic;Yes, I have never been able to grasp the concept of systematic theology.

if you disbelieve in any sacred-secular divide; I'm not sure what this means, if it means what I think means then TOTALLY, if it means what I'm afraid it mean, NO.

if you want to be the church and not just go to church; took the words right out of my mouth.

if you long for a community that is relational, tribal, and primal like a river or a garden; yes, but I prefer not using the description of a river or a garden.

if you believe who goes to hell is no one’s business and no one may be there anyway; Once again, this took the words right out of my mouth.

if you believe salvation has a little to do with atoning for guilt and a lot to do with bringing the whole creation back into shalom with its Maker; Applauding the wording of this

if you believe following Jesus is not believing the right things but living the right way; Yes!

if it really bugs you when people talk about going to heaven instead of heaven coming to us; Yes! Yes! Yes!

if you disdain monological, didactic preaching; disdain it? It depends on how long it is.

if you use the word “story” in all your propositions about postmodernism—No, and I'm not sure why anyone would. Explain?

if all or most of this torturously long sentence describes you, then you might be an emergent Christian. I am.

I really really really like this. It's funny that some would say that this is sarcastic. Maybe it is, but it is accurate all the same.
 
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