You have to watch that Rapture mindset

BABerean2 · Nov 2, 2018

vinsight4u said:
Jerusalem in Zechariah 14 is lifted up - not comes down.
She will rise in the same place she has always been located.
Later, she will be in a time of a great tumult, and will gather plunder.

Do you think Paul was confused in Galatians 4:25-26?

Do you think the author of the Book of Hebrews was confused in Hebrews 11:15-16?

.

Choose Wisely · Nov 2, 2018

StevenMerten said:
Hello Billy,
Heaven is where ever Jesus is. Jesus is Coming to earth, thus the Second Coming. God brought His Presence to Earth back in Moses Day, and resided in the stone temple or tent. Jesus is bringing His Presence to earth, in a new and spectacular way) and He will reside in the body of His Church, on earth. So yes, I do not know where those 'rapture' guys, who are leaving earth, are going?

Us rapture guys are going to heaven as we are not appointed to wrath.

Rev 19
1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

We are attending the marriage supper............in heaven. The church will be there via the pretribulation rapture. We will be in heaven during the hour of testing as the seals are opened. The twelve tribes will be in heaven via the prewrath rapture. They go through the tribulation but will be raptured before the wrath of God begins. The remnant in the nation of Israel go through the wrath of God..........in a place of protection.

Rev 19
5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Lookie there.......us rapture guys return to earth.
Rev 19
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

So I don't know what those non rapture guys are doing when the wrath of God is on the earth.

StevenMerten · Nov 2, 2018

Choose Wisely said:
The remnant in the nation of Israel go through the wrath of God..........in a place of protection.

Hello CW,
We both agree that the 'Remnant Israel', who are Christ's Elect from His Church on earth, go through the Wrath of God, in a place of protection. In establishing Israel, at the time of the Exodus, when God poured out His Wrath upon Egypt; Israel was not harmed by the Woes of God. Israel was right there, on earth, in Egypt, in the middle of it all, and they sailed through God's Wrath totally unharmed.

In His Restoration of Israel, Remnant Israel, Christ's Church on earth, like Noah, will be totally unharmed, as she sails right through the immense Woes of God being poured out on earth, during the 'Three Days of Darkness', of the Battle of Armageddon. You certainly agree God has the Power to do this, Right?

So CW, Are you agreeing that the Battle of Armageddon is the beginning of Messianic Reign and Christ's Kingdom will have Come, to earth?

BABerean2 · Nov 2, 2018

Choose Wisely said:
Us rapture guys are going to heaven as we are not appointed to wrath.

Since the Greek words for "tribulation" and "wrath" are two different words, your logic is in error.

PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418

Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
PDF Files

Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_23.pdf

Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_22.pdf

.

Choose Wisely · Nov 2, 2018

BABerean2 said:
Since the Greek words for "tribulation" and "wrath" are two different words, your logic is in error.

.

Here's what I posted above

We are attending the marriage supper............in heaven. The church will be there via the pretribulation rapture. We will be in heaven during the hour of testing as the seals are opened. The twelve tribes will be in heaven via the prewrath rapture. They go through the tribulation but will be raptured before the wrath of God begins.

Since I know that tribulation and wrath are different words...........and posted that the church will miss the hour of testing, the tribulation via the pre tribulation rapture.

The twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth.........go through the tribulation and are raptured before the wrath of God.

I would say my logic is spot on.

Choose Wisely · Nov 2, 2018

StevenMerten said:
Hello CW,
We both agree that the 'Remnant Israel', who are Christ's Elect from His Church on earth, go through the Wrath of God, in a place of protection.

Hey Steven,
I noticed that you failed to address the scriptures that show the great multitude in heaven....that return to the earth. As to your question...........No we disagree who the remnant Israel is. You think its the church, but it is the physical nation of Israel that flee when the abomination of desolation is set up 1290 days after the sacrifice is taken away.

StevenMerten said:
In His Restoration of Israel, Remnant Israel, Christ's Church on earth, like Noah, will be totally unharmed,

Remnant Israel is not the church as the church is raptured pretrib. However we should note that Noah is in the ark with the doors closed 7 days before the flood. The church will be in the ark during the 70th week of Daniel BEFORE the wrath of God comes to the earth.

StevenMerten said:
as she sails right through the immense Woes of God being poured out on earth, during the 'Three Days of Darkness', of the Battle of Armageddon. You certainly agree God has the Power to do this, Right?

Sure, God has the power to do anything. You certainly agree that God could light the world with a flashlight, RIGHT? But that doesn't mean He will. There is no scriptural proof that He will do what you say.

StevenMerten said:
So CW, Are you agreeing that the Battle of Armageddon is the beginning of Messianic Reign and Christ's Kingdom will have Come, to earth?

As soon as it's over and the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our God.

StevenMerten · Nov 2, 2018

Zephaniah 3:8
Therefore, wait for me, says the LORD, against the day when I arise as accuser; For it is my decision to gather together the nations, to assemble the kingdoms, In order to pour out upon them my wrath, all my blazing anger; For in the fire of my jealousy shall all the earth be consumed.

For then I will change and purify the lips of the peoples, That they all may call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one accord; From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia and as far as the recesses of the North, they shall bring me offerings.

On that day You need not be ashamed of all your deeds, your rebellious actions against me; For then will I remove from your midst the proud braggarts, And you shall no longer exalt yourself on my holy mountain. But I will leave as a remnant in your midst a people humble and lowly, Who shall take refuge in the name of the LORD; the remnant of Israel. They shall do no wrong and speak no lies; Nor shall there be found in their mouths a deceitful tongue; They shall pasture and couch their flocks with none to disturb them. Shout for joy, O daughter Zion! sing joyfully, O Israel! Be glad and exult with all your heart, O daughter Jerusalem! The LORD has removed the judgment against you, he has turned away your enemies; The King of Israel, the LORD, is in your midst, you have no further misfortune to fear. On that day, it shall be said to Jerusalem: Fear not, O Zion, be not discouraged! The LORD, your God, is in your midst, a mighty savior; He will rejoice over you with gladness, and renew you in his love, He will sing joyfully because of you, as one sings at festivals. I will remove disaster from among you, so that none may recount your disgrace.
Yes, at that time I will deal with all who oppress you; I will save the lame, and assemble the outcasts; I will give them praise and renown in all the earth, when I bring about their restoration.

At that time I will bring you home, and at that time I will gather you; For I will give you renown and praise, among all the peoples of the earth, When I bring about your restoration before your very eyes, says the LORD. before your very eyes, says the LORD.

In Isaiah 26, God tells us to go into our houses, close the doors, and hide from His impending Wrath. Through locution from Jesus to St. Padres Pio, in 1950, Jesus gives us detailed instructions on just what to do to survive the 'Three Days of Darkness', which will hit earth, upon Jesus' Second Coming. Jesus and the Blessed Mother will protect Christ's Elect, who have properly received the Sacraments, and are in a State of Grace, as instructed by Jesus.

Isaiah 26:20 DAY OF THE LORD: REWARD AND PUNISHMENT
Go, my people, enter your chambers, and close the doors behind you; Hide yourselves for a brief moment, until the wrath is past. See, the LORD goes forth from his place, to punish the wickedness of the earth's inhabitants; The earth will reveal the blood shed upon it, and no longer conceal the slain.

St. Padre Pio FEBRUARY 7, 1950
Take care of the animals during these days. I am the Creator and Preserver of all animals as well as man. I shall give you a Few signs beforehand, at which time you should place more food before them. I will preserve the property of the elect, including the animals, for they shall be in need of sustenance afterwards as well. Let no one go across the yard, even to feed the animals--he who steps outside will perish! Cover your windows carefully. My elect shall not see My wrath. Have confidence in Me, and I will be your protection. Your confidence obliges Me to come to your aid.

The hour of My coming is near! But I will show mercy. A most dreadful punishment will bear witness to the times. My angels, who are to be the executioners of this work, are ready with their pointed swords! They will take special care to annihilate all those who mocked Me and would not believe in My revelations.

Hurricanes of fire will pour forth from the clouds and spread over the entire earth! Storms, bad weather, thunderbolts and earthquakes will cover the earth for two days. An uninterrupted rain of fire will take place! It will begin during a very cold night. All this is to prove that God is the Master of Creation. Those who hope in Me, and believe in my words, have nothing to fear because I will not forsake them, nor those who spread My message. No harm will come to those who are in the state of grace and who seek My mother's protection.

That you may be prepared for these visitations, I will give you the following signs and instructions: The night will be very cold. The wind will roar. After a time, thunderbolts will be heard. Lock all the doors and windows. Talk to no one outside the house. Kneel down before a crucifix, be sorry for your sins, and beg My Mother's protection. Do not look during the earthquake, because the anger of God is holy! Jesus does not want us to behold the anger of God, because God's anger must be contemplated with fear and trembling.

Those who disregard this advice will be killed instantly. The wind will carry with it poisonous gases which will be diffused over the entire earth. Those who suffer and die innocently will be martyrs and they will be with Me in My Kingdom.

Satan will triumph! But after three nights, the earthquake and fire will cease. On the following day the sun will shine again. angels will descend from Heaven and will spread the spirit of peace over the earth. A feeling of immeasurable gratitude will take possession of those who survive this terrible ordeal-the impending punishment-with which God has visited the earth since creation.

How unconcerned men are regarding these things! which shall so soon come upon them, contrary to all expectations. How indifferent they are in preparing themselves for these unheard of events, through which they will have to pass so shortly!
The weight of the Divine balance has reached the earth! The wrath of My Father shall be poured out over the entire world! I am again warning the world through your instrumentality, as I have so often done heretofore.

The sins of men have multiplied beyond measure: Irreverence in Church, sinful pride committed in sham religious activities, lack of true brotherly love, indecency in dress, especially at summer seasons...The world is filled with iniquity.

This catastrophe shall come upon the earth like a flash of lightning at which moment the light of the morning sun shall be replaced by black darkness! No one shall leave the house or look out of a window from that moment on. I Myself shall come amidst thunder and lightning. The wicked shall behold My Divine Heart. There shall be great confusion because of this utter darkness in which the entire earth shall be enveloped, and many, many shall die from fear and despair.

Those who shall fight for My cause shall receive grace from My Divine Heart; and the cry: "WHO IS LIKE UNTO GOD!" shall serve as a means of protection to many. However, many shall burn in the open fields like withered grass! The godless shall be annihilated, so that afterwards the just shall be able to stand afresh.

On the day, as soon as complete darkness has set in, no one shall leave the house or look from out of the window. The darkness shall last a day and a night, followed by another day and a night, and another day--but on the night following, the stars will shine again, and on the next morning the sun shall rise again, and it will be SPRINGTIME!!

In the days of darkness, My elect shall not sleep, as did the disciples in the garden of olives. They, shall pray incessantly, and they shall not be disappointed in Me. I shall gather My elect. Hell will believe itself to be in possession of the entire earth, but I shall reclaim it!

Do you, perhaps, think that I would permit My Father to have such terrible chastisements come upon the world, if the world would turn from iniquity to justice? But because of My great love, these afflictions shall be permitted to come upon man. Although many shall curse Me, yet thousands of souls shall be saved through them. No human understanding can fathom the depth of My love!

Pray! Pray! I desire your prayers. My Dear Mother Mary, Saint Joseph, Saint Elizabeth, Saint Conrad, Saint Michael. Saint Peter, the Little Therese, Your Holy Angels, shall be your intercessors. Implore their aid! Be courageous soldiers of Christ! At the return of light, let everyone give thanks to the Holy Trinity for Their protection! The devastation shall be very great! But I, Your God, will have purified the earth. I am with you. Have confidence!

BABerean2 · Nov 2, 2018

Choose Wisely said:
I would say my logic is spot on.

Of course you would say your logic is "spot on"...

The problem is there is no pretrib removal of the Church in the Bible.

The Two Peoples of God doctrine is man-made.

PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418

Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
PDF Files

Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_23.pdf

Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_22.pdf

.

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 2, 2018

Choose Wisely said:
Hey Steven,
I noticed that you failed to address the scriptures that show the great multitude in heaven....that return to the earth. As to your question...........No we disagree who the remnant Israel is. You think its the church, but it is the physical nation of Israel that flee when the abomination of desolation is set up 1290 days after the sacrifice is taken away.
.

The whole Jerusalem/Temple Discourses and Revelation concern Israel.....

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 harmonized
They shall be killing each other

Matthew 10:21
“Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death]
Mark 13:12
'And brother shall deliver up brother to death, and father child, and children shall rise up against parents, and shall put them to death,
Luke 21:16
'And ye shall be delivered up also by parents, and brothers, and kindred, and friends, and they shall put of you to death;

Ezekiel 38:21
Then will I call against him every terror, declareth My Lord Yahweh.
The sword of every man against his brother shall be;

Revelation 6:4
and there went forth another horse — red, and to him who is sitting upon it, there was given to him to take the peace from the land,
and that one another they may be slaying,
and there was given to him a great sword.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

While Jerusalem was a prey to these ferocious and devouring factions, every part of Judea was scourged and laid waste by bands of robbers and murderers, who plundered the towns; and, in case of resistance, slew the inhabitants, not sparing either women or children. S
imon, son of Gioras, the commander of one of these bands, at the head of forty thousand banditti, having with some difficulty entered Jerusalem, gave birth to a third faction, and the flame of civil discord blazed out again, with still more destructive fury. The three factions, rendered frantic by drunkenness, rage, and desperation, trampling on heaps of slain,
fought against each other with brutal savageness and madness.
Even such as brou't sacrifices to the temple were murdered. The dead bodies of priests and worshippers, both natives and foreigners were heaped together, and a lake of blood stagnated in the sacred courts. John of Gischala, who headed one of the factions, burnt storehouses full of provisions............
Thus they cut the very sinews of their own strength.
At this critical and alarming conjuncture,
intelligence arrived that the Roman army was approaching the City.

The Jews were petrified with astonishment and fear ;..............

Revelation 6:6
And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat<4621> a denarius and three choinex of barleys a denarius,
and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring".

Matthew 3:12
whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly cleanse his floor,
and will gather his grain/wheat<4621> to the storehouse, but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.'
Luke 3:17
whose winnowing shovel is in his hand, and he will thoroughly cleanse his floor,
and will gather the grain/wheat<4621> to his storehouse, and the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.'

Matthew 13:30
suffer both to grow together till the harvest, and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers,
Gather up first the darnel, and bind it in bundles, to burn it,
and the grain/wheat<4621> gather up into my storehouse.'

.

Choose Wisely · Nov 2, 2018

BABerean2 said:
Of course you would say your logic is "spot on"...
.

LOL, you must have forgot, the one thing we agree on is that the tribultion is over at the 6th seal.

BABerean2 said:
The problem is there is no pretrib removal of the Church in the Bible.
.

What.......are you having trouble finding it? Do you wonder why?
Matt 24
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

BABerean2 said:
The Two Peoples of God doctrine is man-made.

BABerean2 said:
.

Let me fix that for you.
Replacement theology doctrine is man-made.

parousia70 · Nov 2, 2018

Choose Wisely said:
Replacement theology doctrine is man-made.

The only replacement theology going on here is the theology that replaces Faithful, Believing Israel with Unfaithful Christ Rejecting Israel as Heirs to the Promises.

Calminian · Nov 2, 2018

Could someone give me their take on this verse?

Rev 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Maybe I'm taking out of context, but seems to imply there will be a plurality of resurrections.

The NIV uses a parenthesis to make it clearer.

Rev. 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

This seems to mandate more than one resurrection. All resurrections will occur in the "last days", but not necessarily at the same moment.

StevenMerten · Nov 2, 2018

Choose Wisely said:
Replacement theology doctrine is man-made.

Acts 1:6
When they had gathered together they asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?" He answered them, "It is not for you to know the times or seasons that the Father has established by his own authority. But you will receive power when the holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, throughout Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." When he had said this, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him from their sight.

Hello Choose Wisely,

Am I to understand you, that you reject Jesus' Direct Command that His Apostolic Successors will Rule over Israel, and the ends of the earth, when Jesus Comes into His Power on earth?

Luke 22:25
He said to them, I confer a kingdom on you, just as my Father has conferred one on me, that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom; and you will sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Daniel 4:14
By decree of the sentinels is this decided, by order of the holy ones, this sentence; That all who live may know that the Most High rules over the kingdom of men: He can give it to whom he will, or set over it the lowliest of men.

Revelation 2:26
To the victor, who keeps to my ways until the end, I will give authority over the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod. Like clay vessels will they be smashed, just as I received authority from my Father. And to him I will give the morning star.

ItIsFinished! · Nov 2, 2018

vinsight4u said:
There is only one time of raising all just people. That happens after the 7th trumpet sounds. We shall all be changed. Before this, the martyrs get white robes and come out of great tribulation in the vision of Rev. 7.
There will be only the resurrection of the unjust left to occur at the end of this world.
The people that are not yet dead will be divided up as sheep and goats/wise and foolish virgins/wheat and tares.
The tares/goats, foolish virgins group will be taken to be burned.
everlasting punishment -in the the eternal fire

The dead in Christ shall rise...

Hebrews 11 shows that the OT saints won't be made perfect without us.

No martyr type of crown will be given to a person, until after the last martyr for Jesus Christ has been slain. =clear through the 5th seal

6th seal
sun black

Jesus Christ told - Immediately after the tribulation of those days...
sun shall be darkened....the stars...fall...sign of the Son of man in heaven....

6th seal
the stars-fall

The ark is seen in the time of the 7th trumpet.\it would have the mercy seat on it
time for mercy on Israel

His wrath is starting on the wicked.

Friend, yes there is only one resurrection for the just , but not at the same time.
Different stages of the resurrection of the just.
Only one time (no stages ) for the unjust and that occurs at The Great White Throne Judgment.

ItIsFinished! · Nov 2, 2018

BABerean2 said:
Of course you would say your logic is "spot on"...

The problem is there is no pretrib removal of the Church in the Bible.

The Two Peoples of God doctrine is man-made.

PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418

Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
PDF Files

Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_23.pdf

Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_22.pdf

.

There is most certainly a pre-trib rapture (removal of the Church ) in The Word of God.
You seem to put a lot of faith in other men's views rather than The Word of God.
I say this because you constantly post videos of other men's "views" and quote other mens "views" quite often , if not most of the time .
That will definitely create confusion for you.
I place my faith in Jesus Christ .
The pre-trib removal of the Church is clearly taught in the Scriptures and is in harmony with the rest of Scripture.
There is no reason whatsoever for this to be such a controversial topic .

BABerean2 · Nov 2, 2018

ItIsFinished! said:
There is most certainly a pre-trib rapture (removal of the Church ) in The Word of God.
You seem to put a lot of faith in other men's views rather than The Word of God.

If it is so obvious why did it take almost 1800 years to find it?

Based on thousands of pages of commentary and sermons written at the time of the American Revolutionary War, the pretrib doctrine was almost unknown, if at all...

PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418

Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
PDF Files

Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_23.pdf

Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_22.pdf

.

ItIsFinished! · Nov 2, 2018

BABerean2 said:
If it is so obvious why did it take almost 1800 years to find it?

Based on thousands of pages of commentary and sermons written at the time of the American Revolutionary War, the pretrib doctrine was almost unknown, if at all...

PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418

Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
PDF Files

Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_23.pdf

Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_22.pdf

.

Actually it didn't take 1800 years whatsoever to "find" it.
It has always been in The Word of God.

BABerean2 · Nov 2, 2018

ItIsFinished! said:
Actually it didn't take 1800 years whatsoever to "find" it.
It has always been in The Word of God.

Author Tim LaHaye’s fictional books and movies known as the “Left Behind” series have convinced millions of modern Christians that the Pretrib doctrine is scriptural.

Look at his quote below and consider carefully which viewpoint is the oldest.

"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the

post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."

Tim LaHaye, "Rapture Under Attack", page 197,

Multnomath Publishers, Inc., 1998

.

ItIsFinished! · Nov 2, 2018

BABerean2 said:
Author Tim LaHaye’s fictional books and movies known as the “Left Behind” series have convinced millions of modern Christians that the Pretrib doctrine is scriptural.

Look at his quote below and consider carefully which viewpoint is the oldest.

"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the

post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."

Tim LaHaye, "Rapture Under Attack", page 197,

Multnomath Publishers, Inc., 1998

.

Nothing regarding the rapture and its different teachings surprise me .
Post-trib is an old view as well as pre-trib.
And , both were taught in the early Church.
I'm more concerned with what The Word of God states .

BABerean2 · Nov 2, 2018

Calminian said:
Could someone give me their take on this verse?

Rev 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Maybe I'm taking out of context, but seems to imply there will be a plurality of resurrections.

The NIV uses a parenthesis to make it clearer.

Rev. 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

This seems to mandate more than one resurrection. All resurrections will occur in the "last days", but not necessarily at the same moment.

There are two resurrections in John chapter 5.

The first resurrection in chapter 5 is in John 5:24, which is the process of being passed from death to life, upon coming to faith in Christ.
It is a spiritual resurrect.

The second resurrection in chapter 5 is in John 5:27-30.
It is the bodily resurrection and judgment of "all" the dead.

John also recorded Revelation chapter 20. (That is a hint.)

The time of "the judgment of the dead" is found in Revelation 11:18, which is right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.

Because Christ returns in Revelation 16:15-16, and also in chapter 19, we know the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

.

You have to watch that Rapture mindset

Newbie

Forgiven

I Love You, God!

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Forgiven

Forgiven

I Love You, God!

Newbie

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Forgiven

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

Senior Veteran

I Love You, God!

Jesus Christ is our only hope.

Jesus Christ is our only hope.

Newbie

Jesus Christ is our only hope.

Newbie

Jesus Christ is our only hope.

Newbie

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