You do not need a single prophecy to be fully fulfilled in order...

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[zeke37]

she believes it means leaving the planet

 

[TehMill]

Paul makes it clear that the church will be gone before the man of sin is revealed in 2 Thess 2.

Rev 6 and 7 make that clear as well.

Rev 12 makes it abundantly clear that the church is in heaven saying "woe to the earth, for the devil has gone down to you...". When the church is removed, the devil is cast down to the realm of the earth. THEN he begins his anti-christ nightmare which is part of the wrath of God...which the church is not appointed to suffer.

Isaiah 26:19-21 makes it clear too.

Matt 24 makes it clear that the tribulation came after the desolation of Israel. It says that the tribulation will be cut short AND THEN the false christs/false prophets/false miracles do their thing.

2. Thess 2 makes it clear that Christ's coming on the clouds of glory and our gathering to meet Him there comes AFTER the lawless one has taken the seat in the temple, and that is after he has opposed everything so-called god, that is BIG TIME persecution.

Matt 24 also says "AFTER the tribulation...you will see the Son of man coming in the clouds to gather His elect.

Same coming, same clouds, same gathering.

if He had said "BEFORE the tribulation...." we would all be pre-trib

 

[SummaScriptura]

There does not need to be a rapture before the events I outlined in the OP. That is my point. Whether one is pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, or pan-trib, the worldwide changes I outlined in my OP could happen before the Biblical final Tribulation period. There is nothing that impinges upon the rapture question in my OP.

 

[Achilles6129]

Paul makes it clear that the church will be gone before the man of sin is revealed in 2 Thess 2.

No, Jen, Paul is saying that an apostasy will happen before the antichrist comes:

"3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; " 2 Th. 2:3

Falling away, #646, apostasia, (from Thayer's Lexicon): 1) a falling away, defection, apostasy. Vine's on apostasia: "a defection, revolt, apostasy," is used in the NT of religious apostasy; in Act 21:21, it is translated "to forsake," lit., "thou teachest apostasy from Moses." In 2Th 2:3 "the falling away" signifies apostasy from the faith. In papyri documents it is used politically of rebels."

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Hi HisdaughterJen,

You can't have a departure that happens ahead of the gathering.
Look at the meaning of the words follwing away. It mean a defection from truth.
Not - a leaving of the planet.
It shows that many will leave their faith in Jesus.

The gathering IS the departure.

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

I pretty much agree with many of these, but, I believe that we are that generation that will see these things. I think that the generational time clock started when Israel became a nation in 1948..62 years ago. From what I have read, a "biblical" generation is 70 years. Jesus stated in Matt 24:34 that this generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled. In other words, the generation who sees all of these things won't pass, it will come to the full end of the generation. If 70 years are true, eight years isn't long.

According to most historical evidence, our Beloved was born into the flesh around Sept 12th 3-6 BC, so I discern that He will return in early 2020.

And I think most all here, in this eschatology section, KNOW these things are being played out in front of us.

 

[SummaScriptura]

According to most historical evidence, our Beloved was born into the flesh around Sept 12th 3-6 BC, so I discern that He will return in early 2020.

And I think most all here, in this eschatology section, KNOW these things are being played out in front of us.

I think that is a huge assumption.

I am a pre-trib rapturist (which I only mention in passing as this thread is getting derailed by the rapture question). I interpret the Book of Revelation literally until the literary devices used in it are obviously figurative. When interpreting the figurative language of Revelation, I look to the books of the Old Testament, the New Testament and para-biblical Jewish literature of the period for clues to their meaning. I believe the Book of Revelation is for the major part chronological. I believe in the physical return of Jesus Christ to the earth to set up His 1,000-year earthly reign.

However, I am not at all convinced I am living in the terminal generation which will see the lion's share of the Biblical prophecies fulfilled. I was born in 1956. I am unsure whether I have seen a single specific Biblical prophecy fulfilled in my lifetime, though I believe the "birthpangs" of which Jesus spoke are underway, and the rebirth of Israel sets the stage for the Biblical prophecies to begin ticking off. I do see the stage being set. I cannot, however, tell the timeframe in which it will all come about.

I do look forward to His glorious appearing.

I can only speak for myself. You should too.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

No, Jen, Paul is saying that an apostasy will happen before the antichrist comes:

"3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; " 2 Th. 2:3

Falling away, #646, apostasia, (from Thayer's Lexicon): 1) a falling away, defection, apostasy. Vine's on apostasia: "a defection, revolt, apostasy," is used in the NT of religious apostasy; in Act 21:21, it is translated "to forsake," lit., "thou teachest apostasy from Moses." In 2Th 2:3 "the falling away" signifies apostasy from the faith. In papyri documents it is used politically of rebels."

The word in Greek is APOSTASIA which means "to move away from place of standing" and not the English word, APOSTASY which has come to mean "to move away from the faith". APOSTASIA means departure. The thing being departed is in the context of the passage.

You cannot understand who/what the restrainer is unless you understand the meaning of APOSTASIA and the context of the passage which Paul mentions in the very first line of that passage.

 

[SummaScriptura]

Please take rapture arguments to another thread.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Please take rapture arguments to another thread.

I agree.....I just voted on this rapture thread

http://www.christianforums.com/t7461246/

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

I think that is a huge assumption.

I am a pre-trib rapturist (which I only mention in passing as this thread is getting derailed by the rapture question). I interpret the Book of Revelation literally until the literary devices used in it are obviously figurative. When interpreting the figurative language of Revelation, I look to the books of the Old Testament, the New Testament and para-biblical Jewish literature of the period for clues to their meaning. I believe the Book of Revelation is for the major part chronological. I believe in the physical return of Jesus Christ to the earth to set up His 1,000-year earthly reign.

However, I am not at all convinced I am living in the terminal generation which will see the lion's share of the Biblical prophecies fulfilled. I was born in 1956. I am unsure whether I have seen a single specific Biblical prophecy fulfilled in my lifetime, though I believe the "birthpangs" of which Jesus spoke are underway, and the rebirth of Israel sets the stage for the Biblical prophecies to begin ticking off. I do see the stage being set. I cannot, however, tell the timeframe in which it will all come about.

I do look forward to His glorious appearing.

I can only speak for myself. You should too.

I yield to your recommendation.

And I can hardly wait for that glorious day. Praise and exalt Him. HalleluJAH!

 

[SummaScriptura]

I yield to your recommendation.

And I can hardly wait for that glorious day. Praise and exalt Him. HalleluJAH!

Amen, brother! Amen.

 

[vinsight4u]

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