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"You didn't build that ... "

Blackwater Babe

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Nope, doesn't count as dominating at all. We don't profit from them. Supporting them, more like it. And to the poster before you, citing Sweden's tax rate; what is the actual tax rate in the US?

Previously, economists have concluded that a flat tax rate of 15% would yield more $ than Gov't could spend. I fear that has changed since ...
So... military occupation isn't dominating? And I would contend you ARE actually profiting from them, since all the rebuilding contracts in such countries go almost exclusively to American business. Ever hear of Halliburton.

Thats aside from the fact that you have a really odd concept of dominance.
 
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IisJustMe

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Umm...seems that folks didn't bother to read the WHOLE speech, just the soundbites...and then got their shorts in a knot...
I wish I could say I'm shocked.
While you may prefer it be characterized in that fashion, nothing could be further from the truth. The Empty Suit's political philosophy has never been more clearly displayed. He has almost dropped all pretense of being a socialist. Almost, but not quite. If he had dropped all pretense, he wouldn't be trying to backtrack now and put out lengthier versions of the video to "prove" his comments were taken out of context. However, his purpose in making the statement is absolutely clear.

Remarks from Obama on July 18 in Roanoke, Virginia;
"Somebody helped to created this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges ... if you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."
--Verbatim, quoted from the raw tape posted on YouTube
Out of context? How the heck is that "out of context"? He switched thoughts in mid-sentence and blurted out what he really thinks, which is that what a man builds up isn't his to keep, that he deserves no credit for it. Left unsaid is what that means, but it is clearly the objective of this administration to take what "we didn't build" for the benefit of all those that allegedly helped build it, an unbelievable leap to a false conclusion.

It is a logical fallacy based on what he said in the speech -- "you didn't build it ... omeone else made that happen" therefore you don't get to keep it.

Socialism, pure, simple and evil. Our last best hope to avoid becoming another failed socialist country is to elect Mitt Romney in November. Be very careful how you reason out your choice in the coming weeks.
 
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Blackwater Babe

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While you may prefer it be characterized in that fashion, nothing could be further from the truth. The Empty Suit's political philosophy has never been more clearly displayed. He has almost dropped all pretense of being a socialist. Almost, but not quite. If he had dropped all pretense, he wouldn't be trying to backtrack now and put out lengthier versions of the video to "prove" his comments were taken out of context. However, his purpose in making the statement is absolutely clear.

Remarks from Obama on July 18 in Roanoke, Virginia;
"Somebody helped to created this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges ... if you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."
--Verbatim, quoted from the raw tape posted on YouTube​


Out of context? How the heck is that "out of context"? He switched thoughts in mid-sentence and blurted out what he really thinks, which is that what a man builds up isn't his to keep, that he deserves no credit for it. Left unsaid is what that means, but it is clearly the objective of this administration to take what "we didn't build" for the benefit of all those that allegedly helped build it, an unbelievable leap to a false conclusion.

It is a logical fallacy based on what he said in the speech -- "you didn't build it ... omeone else made that happen" therefore you don't get to keep it.

Socialism, pure, simple and evil. Our last best hope to avoid becoming another failed socialist country is to elect Mitt Romney in November. Be very careful how you reason out your choice in the coming weeks.

OK, good, we have the correct quote.

So, are you now claiming that people who have built successful companies and businesses DID build all the pre-existing and necessary infrastructure that allows their business to function? Correct me if I'm wrong, but thats what it looks like you're saying.

Obama's not saying that they didn't build their businesses, but rather, said businesses don't exist in a vacuum. I don't even like Obama, and I can see that.
 
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RaiseTheDead

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So... military occupation isn't dominating?

We aren't dominating Nations militarily. We are spending outrageous sums, that we do not have, to maintain forces that really can't do much of anything if we wanted them to.

And I would contend you ARE actually profiting from them, since all the rebuilding contracts in such countries go almost exclusively to American business. Ever hear of Halliburton.

Please paint the paper trail that leads into my pocket. Or the US Treasury's. It doesn't exist. And such rebuilding contracts don't actually generate any real profit. Now if we asked the Afghans what they wanted to be re-built, and did that? Then perhaps we could consider some of it as progress, which might someday be realized as profit. That didn't happen, in case you missed it.


Thats aside from the fact that you have a really odd concept of dominance.

Not at all. Alexander the Great was dominant. General Patton wanted to dominate Russia after WWII, while we could, which would've entirely averted the cold war, and poured wealth into this Nation. Bush's "riding herd on the middle east" could've done something similar but was never designed to. Instead, the plan was for Iraqi oil to fund the effort. That never happened.

We have in no way been dominant, over anyone, recently. That you cite these as examples of dominance merely shows you have a skewed idea of what that means.
 
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SearchingStudent

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I read the whole speech...in its entirety. His point (that got missed somewhere) is that nobody does things all by themselves. It's a combination of education, hard work, lucky breaks and the investment that OTHERS made in you, your business, etc. that lead to success. Nobody gets anywhere on their own. Let's break this down logically. Let's say you own some sort of retail business. Now, we'll look at the steps it takes to make this a success:
1. EDUCATION - 12 to 16 years of teachers, counselors, adminstrators pouring into your life.
2. Infrastructure - someone else built the building, built the roads, built the cars, manufactured the merchandise, drove the delivery trucks.
3. A bank of some sort - the loan or venture capital to start the business
4. Customers to buy your merchandise to provide you with the cash flow to repay the investors, pay for the merchandise, the building, etc. and your employees.

Now...how do you figure you would be ALONE in building your success? Unless you started with absolutely nothing and created everything on your own, your success was the product of many factors coming together. Is that really so hard to understand????
 
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Dieselman

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If you'd care to actually dialog with some of us "libs" you might find that we are moved, not so much by political ideology as we are by compassion for the rest of the human race.
I've had discussions with liberals on message boards for over a decade, and as a group they're are an unimpressive lot of self-righteous America loathing socialists who believe that bashing everything this country stands for is intellectual debate. That said, my grandparents were Democrats, my mother was a Democrat, and most of the people I grew up with were Democrats. None of them, however, would have tolerated a common criminal like Bill Clinton any more than they would tolerate Nixon dishonoring the presidency. The Democratic party is now contolled by the socialist hard left. The image of Nancy Pelosi leading her puppies out of the House to protest a vote she didn't like was probably one of the most disgusting images of the year. When she refused to allow the socialized medicine bill to be read and even proclaimed "We have to pass the bill to find out what's in it," she should have been immediately removed as speaker and expelled from the House. Yes, they COULD do that if they had integrity. They do not. The Democrats vote in lock step with Reid and Pelosi, two of the most pathetic political figures in modern times.
Religion masqueraiding as political ideology is quite sickening.
Religion masquerading as anything is sickening.
Where is it written that to be a "true blue Christian" one must also be willing to swallow whatever the GOP throws out, no matter how bad it smells?
I could say the same thing about the Democratic party, who can't seem to muster an original thought. What Harry and Nancy says, they do.
Conversely, if one is not a true follower of the GOP that makes one part of the great unwashed, God-hating liberal crowd?
No, you can pretty much carve out your own niche there. I was a registered Independant until I saw the damage the liberals were intent on doing to this country. It isn't so much right vs left, it's right vs wrong.
No my friend, I find absolutely no contradiction between my political leanings (such that they are) and my rather conservative Christian beliefs. Christ told the story of the good Samaritan. He also said "whatsoever you do for the least of these...".
Or if you change one word, "whatever you do TO the least of these..." I rather imagine that He would have a problem with the blessed sacrament of the left; abortion on demand.
I am a God-fearing, gun-toting heterosexual, happily married feminist who believes that ALL should have health care, especially those most on the margins of society.
Me too. However the left refuses to address anything regarding costs because it offends the trial lawyers and unions. I support STATE catastophic health insurance, torte reform, liability caps, portability, health care savings accounts and anything which gives the individual greater control of their own health care. I oppose socialized medicine, the demonization of capitalism and the notion that health care providers should be servants rather than business professionals. I believe in accountability. If you drive without car insurance and cause an accident, you're going to pay. The same should happen if you don't carry health insurance. Insurance, by the way, is only a way of dividing the costs of a loss to a larger group so that the cost to any individual is lessened. it is NOT a Constitutional right.
I firmly believe that health care is a human right.
Health care is not a synonym for health insurance. Americans have health care.
I am pro-life
Me too, but that makes you unqualified to run for public office as a Democrat.
I am anti-death penalty,
I support the death penalty for murderers, traitors, and any member of any terrorist organization.
pro-military and anti-professional politicians.
Me too. The only professional politicians are supposed to be senators.
I am educated, employed at a wage above the median family wage.
Me too.
I've been through hard times, very hard times, and pulled myself up by the grace of God and the help of others who were willing to extend a hand when I needed it.
Me too, though I think the grace of God helped me more than anyone extending a hand. I've worked since I was 12. I've never filed for unemployment. I repaid my student loans I've never defaulted on a debt.
If that makes me a "lib" that isn't worth the sweat off your brow, then so be it.
If you don't hate the military, promote the destruction of the unborn or believe that you are nothing without the benevolence of government, there is no place for you in the modern Democratic party.
 
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Blackwater Babe

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SS, what you seem to be missing, is the underlying meaning here:

it's not your's, but the Govt's to take. And when it does, that should be ok. Is that change you can believe in?
*Headdesk* thats not remotely what he said. The business is yours, but the infrastructure around it isn't, and its only fair you help with its upkeep. No ones talking about the big bad ebil guvmernt comming and taking anyone's business away.
 
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SearchingStudent

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SS, what you seem to be missing, is the underlying meaning here:

it's not your's, but the Govt's to take. And when it does, that should be ok. Is that change you can believe in?

Please point out where he said that it was the government's to take. Direct quote linked back to the original please. Otherwise, you are just as foolish as the next one who is reading into a speech when they have no idea what was behind it other than assumptions.

The rabid hatred of our president I believe stems more from his name and ethnick background than anything else. I don't remember this much vitriol over good old Billy boy.
 
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RaiseTheDead

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Please point out where he said that it was the government's to take. Direct quote linked back to the original please. Otherwise, you are just as foolish as the next one who is reading into a speech when they have no idea what was behind it other than assumptions.

Assumption not necessary, writing on wall perfectly clear. (And the silver tongued politician didn't fool me either)
 
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Blackwater Babe

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Please point out where he said that it was the government's to take. Direct quote linked back to the original please. Otherwise, you are just as foolish as the next one who is reading into a speech when they have no idea what was behind it other than assumptions.

The rabid hatred of our president I believe stems more from his name and ethnick background than anything else. I don't remember this much vitriol over good old Billy boy.
*raises hand* I hate him. He's a failure in every sense. I still don't think that makes it ok to misrepresent him. I'm far right, and it irks me beyond belief when my erstwhile allies engage in these sorts of nonsense tactics, when they really should be pointing to the REAL errors he's made and problems he's caused, rather than this ridiculous song and dance about utterly fabricated controversies. If they did that, they might actually swing a few opinions here and there. This focus on ephemeral nonsense only serves to further entrench the rusted ons, and does noting to bring anyone to "our" point of view.

See also: People who don't know what it means using socialism as an epithet irks me too.
 
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Blackwater Babe

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Not currently. We did, certainly. And we didn't finish the job in either case. Obviously, the problem is no exit strategy was devised before entering. as predicted, they "turned into another 'Nam."
Not currently huh? One wonders what you would think qualifies.
 
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SearchingStudent

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Assumption not necessary, writing on wall perfectly clear. (And the silver tongued politician didn't fool me either)

Once again "the writing on the wall" was manufactured by the fearmongering among those who would be opposed to anyone who doesn't think just like them.

Once again, provide a direct link or quote. Anything NOT in black and white is an assumption.
 
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RaiseTheDead

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it irks me beyond belief when my erstwhile allies engage in these sorts of nonsense tactics, when they really should be pointing to the REAL errors he's made and problems he's caused

Agreed, that this deep seated freudian slip is but the tip of the iceberg, and other issues are far weightier. Link to the threads you've started to raise awareness about them?
 
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Dieselman

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Not currently. We did, certainly. And we didn't finish the job in either case. Obviously, the problem is no exit strategy was devised before entering. as predicted, they "turned into another 'Nam."
The strategy for Iraq was spelled out and signed into law in 1998 by Bill Clinton; the liberation of Iraq and the establishment of democracy. We didn't take their oil despite a million lies by libs who said that's why we were there. We didn't establish a puppet regime either. They chose their own leaders. No other nation would have paid the price we did without exacting reimbursement.

Our goal was much the same in Afghanistan, though it's harder to bring freedom to people who have never known it and unite a strong nation out of tibal warlords. The biggest enemy we face in Afghanistan is the lack of resolve to finish the job.
 
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RaiseTheDead

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No other nation would have paid the price we did without exacting reimbursement.

The plan was to "exact reimbursement." We didn't do it!

Our goal was much the same in Afghanistan, though it's harder to bring freedom to people who have never known it and unite a strong nation out of tibal warlords. The biggest enemy we face in Afghanistan is the lack of resolve to finish the job.

Agreed, but resolve on who's part? Our enemy has plenty of resolve, to wait it out while we announce when they can freely take over, as if nothing ever changed. No amount of US resolve will ever change the Afghan populace. (Maybe if we actually dominated them for a while, showing them how a progressive lifestyle can actually work, they'd get the hang of it?)
 
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Blackwater Babe

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Agreed, that this deep seated freudian slip is but the tip of the iceberg, and other issues are far weightier. Link to the threads you've started to raise awareness about them?
How does my starting threads on Obama effect in the slightest your intentional misrepresentation of the man?
 
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