You did not chose Me, I chose you.

[CharismaticLady]

Thank God that he is judge, and is greater than my conscience. I keep hearing that sin is deeds, as though we can decree that this or that is of itself sin. In Sunday School there is discussion whether this or that is wrong or right to do, as if keeping what we know to be right or wrong is all that matters. What about our reasons for doing so?

Mark, I like debating with you over H. You don't have malice in your heart. You are also quite intelligent.

1 John 3 is my go to chapter on sin. And 16-24 shows us it is all about our love and conscience which shows us whether we are actually abiding in Him.

16 By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?

18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him.... 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

I think that is where the Spirit convicts us if we are acting wrong, or our motives are wrong, because it is part of our inner being. Even those who only had the law, before Christ, showed an inner struggle of conscience as shown in Romans 7:14-23. But after being born again of the Spirit with a super-sensitized conscience that stopped us and gave us power to resist temptations, going to bed with a clear conscience is what I believe blessed the apostles, but not only them, but we too who have the Spirit.

And even though H, and maybe you too being Reformed, who keep shocking me with some of your beliefs are taught that Paul still thought of himself as the chief of sinners, Paul was, but that was before meeting Jesus on the road to Damascus and being filled with the Spirit. Though Matthew was a miserable tax collector, like the IRS, LOL, Paul was worse. He actually killed Christians! But as we see that phrase in context, he teaches of a clear conscience that he wouldn't teach Timoty if he didn't have one himself.

12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

18 This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, 19 having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck.

 

[Hammster]

You like the modern versions from codices that deleted words, and even whole verses. They assume erroneously that the KJV added words and verses, but that has been discovered to be false. The correct quoting of the verse is:

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

I prefer accurate translations.

 

[Hammster]

This is why you don't understand Paul and have twisted his teaching.

Are you saying that I’m not blessed?

 

[Hammster]

I think that is where the Spirit convicts us if we are acting wrong, or our motives are wrong, because it is part of our inner being.

You don’t sin, so what is there to convict?

 

[Hammster]

Paul never said that he “was” the chief of sinners. He said that he “is”. It pained him that he still sinned, especially since he given so much. So he was very sensitive to his sin. We could all learn a lot from Paul. It’s better to be honest about our sin then it is to pretend that we don’t sin.

 

[Uber Genius]

I believe that according to 1 Peter 1:1-2 without the Molinism name or label.

Yes it is data for both Molinism and Arminianism.
"That none should perish," is incoherent with all forms of Calvinism!

I believe God at His core is good and moral and unchanging His moral character. So there would have been no alternate possibility where things were easier for mankind overall.

Not quite sure how God's moral character has anything to do with God's sovereignty or man's freedom or molinism's possible worlds. Help me understand further.

 

[Uber Genius]

I give Jesus all of the credit. He lived the perfect life in my place. I’m in Him. So His righteousness is imputed to me.

As to His death,


For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
— 1 Corinthians 15:3

This means


When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
— Colossians 2:13-14

So to sum up, He loved the life I could not live, and died the death that I deserved.

Straightforward.

Like your avatar.

Lots of cherry-picking the data on all sides. Thanks for the cogent summary of Jesus' substitutionary work as a part of God's atonement.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So you have presented one passage, filled with figurative language, and told us how to interpret that passage with out any exegesis.

Why should we think this passage, "Remain in me," or "Keep my commands," has to do with maintaining a sin-free life?

In systematic theology ALL the passages that relate to a topic are examined exegetically then brought together to determine abductive lay which view best explains the data of the scripture.

Romans 5:1 "Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Romans 3:28 "Therefore, we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the Law."

Romans 3:30 "Since indeed God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."

Gal 2:16 "Nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus...by the works of the Law shall no flesh justified."

Dikaioma, dikaioo, dikaiosis, are the greek words for justified. A study of the passages in the New Conant would be most important.

The passage in John is unclear with respect to new covenant salvation or maintenance, stands in stark contrast to Paul and Peter's teaching, and is NOT even in the New Covenant!

Does the Bible say that we are saved by faith without love? 1 Corinthians 13 is very helpful on this subject.

 

[St. Helens]

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[Uber Genius]

Does the Bible say that we are saved by faith without love? 1 Corinthians 13 is very helpful on this subject.

not sure what point you are making. There is a near-infinite number of things the Bible says we are saved WITHOUT.

I have eschewed cherry-picking verses and suggested that we go through a systematic process of gathering all the biblical data and then examine the various explanations of those data carefully.

Is your comment that we should add the data of 1 Cor 13 to the data of how God justifies? If so what passage?

I think John 3:16 is a great piece of data that ties God's love with man's choice resulting in justification.

I imagine the list will be in the 50+ range.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I prefer accurate translations.

I like all of God's words that I can get.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Are you saying that I’m not blessed?

Quoting Old Testament to prove New Testament???

 

[CharismaticLady]

You don’t sin, so what is there to convict?

The Spirit convicts BEFORE you get enticed by a temptation, so you DON'T SIN. That is just part of His leading. You should know that.

 

[Hammster]

Quoting Old Testament to prove New Testament???

Quoting Paul who quoted David. I’m not sure why that’s a problem.

 

[Hammster]

The Spirit convicts BEFORE you get enticed by a temptation, so you DON'T SIN. That is just part of His leading. You should know that.

Is that what your pastor preaches?

 

[Hammster]

I like all of God's words that I can get.

Same here. That’s why I like accuracy.

 

[renniks]

The Spirit convicts BEFORE you get enticed by a temptation, so you DON'T SIN. That is just part of His leading. You should know that.

You never sin? Only one person never sinned and he was fully God.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Quoting Paul who quoted David. I’m not sure why that’s a problem.

Paul was making a point. It was a set up in the middle of a teaching, but not the conclusion. The whole teaching on the law was from chapter 1 through chapter 8, and you stop at 4.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Is that what your pastor preaches?

It's Paul.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Same here. That’s why I like accuracy.

I check all translations, but prefer my own Bible to have all the words.