You can't go to heaven if you don't believe this!!!

[JWNEWMAN]

The above verse is shĕ'owl.

In the verse it speaks of "the dead" (right there) but it parallels shĕ'owl to "the kings of the earth".

If one earth (as John says) WE PASS from DEATH unto life (while physically living) WHERE is death if one can actually abide IN IT (after a spiritual truth) according to the apostle? Yet in regards to it it speaks to the state of the soul "one who LOVETH NOT (or HATETH) his brother" ABIDETH in death. So theres an abode of death (we can be in HERE) and the dead who abide IN IT are known by their fruit (hated). Which makes further sense on why the gates of death is regarded as the REALM of the DEAD and are shown as a THEM that HATE ME.

Theres tons of various verses that speak in accord with it. In fact the wicked themselves are shown as those TURNED INTO hell (word) shĕ'owl in Psalms 9:17 Its the same word wherein it shows shĕ'owl on equal playing feild on the earth, infact in that very verse it adresses the nations in this one as it does the other.

What does all this have to do with what Joyce said about demon's jumping all "up on him" (Jesus) and tormenting him for three days?

 

[Fireinfolding]

What does all this have to do with what Joyce said about demon's jumping all "up on him" (Jesus) and tormenting him for three days?

Im only adressing what you asked me. Who was of their Father the devil? Where did that take place? If the gates of death are shown as those of this world (of hell beneath) AS He said YE were from beneath then they (the gates of death) are a THEM that HATE ME. Who are THEY?

Ye have overcome WHOM? Ye little children have OVERCOME THEM because greater is HE that is in you then HE that is IN the world. The Spirit of the world they were both in and of. The wicked are TURNED INTO hell the gates of it cannot prevail against His church right? How could it IF it were of another physical rrealm verses spiritual realm of the dead (living folks) abiding IN DEATH we have passed from IF the evidence of Gods love abideth in us?

 

[JWNEWMAN]

Im only adressing what you asked me. Who was of their Father the devil? Where did that take place? If the gates of death are shown as those of this world (of hell beneath) AS He said YE were from beneath then they (the gates of death) are a THEM that HATE ME. Who are THEY?

Ye have overcome WHOM? Ye little children have OVERCOME THEM because greater is HE that is in you then HE that is IN the world. The Spirit of the world they were both in and of. The wicked are TURNED INTO hell the gates of it cannot prevail against His church right? How could it IF it were of another physical rrealm verses spiritual realm of the dead (living folks) abiding IN DEATH we have passed from IF the evidence of Gods love abideth in us?

I'm utterly lost. I have no idea what you are talking about. Sorry, I'm very simplistic. Pretend you are talking to a 7 year old boy.

 

[Fireinfolding]

I'm utterly lost. I have no idea what you are talking about. Sorry, I'm very simplistic. Pretend you are talking to a 7 year old boy.

You are asking me something in accord with Joyce. But I never commented on Joyce I only posted a single verse asking if you saw that parallel in that verse.

Then you adressed me concerning that verse. When I answered you asked, "what does this have to do with Joyce and demons on Christ".

It had nothing whatsoever to do with Joyce or her concept but was in accord with that first verse I posted (and in accord with the playing feild itself).

 

[JWNEWMAN]

You are asking me something in accord with Joyce. But I never commented on Joyce I only posted a single verse asking if you saw that parallel in that verse.

Then you adressed me concerning that verse. When I answered you asked, "what does this have to do with Joyce and demons on Christ".

It had nothing whatsoever to do with Joyce or her concept but was in accord with that first verse I posted (and in accord with the playing feild itself).

Like I said sis, maybe God put men in the drivers seat cause he knew women would drive circles around them otherwise.

Slow down for us little folk.

 

[IamAdopted]

I think some of you guys are blowing this a bit out of proportion. So she has an unorthodox belief about salvation. And? Does it affect you at all? If you are secure in your beliefs, it shouldn't. If, on the other hand, you are inclined to believe her, than by all means, do so. Either way, you are responsible for your beliefs, not her. The same goes for everyone.

It may not effect us but it sure may effect a new born babe in Christ.

 

[Maranatha27]

According to Joyce Myers Jesus death on the cross wasn't a sufficient sacrifice to pay for our sins. He also had to go to hell and suffer. There the demons in hell mocked him and got "up on him" (this she emphasizes) and mocked him saying Ah Ha Ha "you trusted in God..."
She says in a booklet "From Cross To The Throne" that, "if you don't believe this teaching there is no hope of you going to heaven."

Does anyone else believe this teaching?

Are the rest of us going to hell because we don't?

I dont know that the demons mocked Christ when he went to Hades. remember there was two sides to hades. paradise and torments. The paradise side was moved to the heavenlies. If you could give the verse where it says this, i know psalm 16 well, but i think that is an assumption on her part, extabiblical. I love Joyce meyers, but i believe that many people entered eternal glory without knowing that Christ entered the belly of the earth at the time of his death.

 

[Maranatha27]

I dont know that the demons mocked Christ when he went to Hades. remember there was two sides to hades. paradise and torments. The paradise side was moved to the heavenlies. If you could give the verse where it says this, i know psalm 16 well, but i think that is an assumption on her part, extabiblical. I love Joyce meyers, but i believe that many people entered eternal glory without knowing that Christ entered the belly of the earth at the time of his death.

I didnt read this properly, There is significant scripture on the fact that he suffered well beyond just the physical death.

 

[Lisa0315]

I will never understand why anyone would dare add anything, and I will never understand why those who hear this in her congregation do not correct her. Why in the world do people stand by and allow anyone to pervert the gospel? Is it a case of the blind leading the blind? Are they afraid that their money making machine will go elsewhere?

Lisa

 

[Fireinfolding]

Like I said sis, maybe God put men in the drivers seat cause he knew women would drive circles around them otherwise.

Slow down for us little folk.

Well I cant say my husband is the kind of man to stop and ask for directions being a FedEx driver. So my comment would be pretty much void to use him as my example to nix that one

Ducks pastor is in the driver seat

I am little folk JWN, I for one learned to read later much in life so Im far from large. But I have a difficult time putting things out as clearly as I would like. Heck I just learned punctuation and paragraphs just a few years ago. So while others have mastered the skill of reading before their teens I just began in my mid twenties so I appologize Im unclear.

I dont think its because Im a woman but because I had learned to read so late in life.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

Well I cant say my husband is the kind of man to stop and ask for directions being a FedEx driver. So my comment would be pretty much void to use him as my example to nix that one

Ducks pastor is in the driver seat

I am little folk JWN, I for one learned to read later much in life so Im far from large. But I have a difficult time putting things out as clearly as I would like. Heck I just learned punctuation and paragraphs just a few years ago. So while others have mastered the skill of reading before their teens I just began in my mid twenties so I appologize Im unclear.

I dont think its because Im a woman but because I had learned to read so late in life.

Well, some of your concepts seem beyond me, I mean in conceptualization and actually beyond me. So just think of me like a 7 year old and explain things that way, then, I might get it, but I'm making no promises.

 

[Ave Maria]

Joyce Myers is wrong. Jesus' sacrifice on the cross was and is sufficient!

 

[Fireinfolding]

Well, some of your concepts seem beyond me, I mean in conceptualization and actually beyond me. So just think of me like a 7 year old and explain things that way, then, I might get it, but I'm making no promises.

You can't teach it, you reflect on it, THINK about it, just HIS WORDS not mens is (to me) the best. I have such huge amounts on this that I cant post it all but I'll try. Dont try to "get a conclusion" or an "affirmative answer" it doesnt come that way.

Again just look at this... colored to EQUATE

Isaiah 14:9 HELL FROM BENEATH ~is moved for~ THEE to MEET THEE at THY COMING: IT ~stirreth up~ THE DEAD ~FOR THEE~, ***EVEN*** ALL THE CHEIF ONES OF THE EARTH; it hath raised up from their thrones ALL THE KINGS OF THE NATIONS


WHERE is it showing the SAME?

See THIS WORLD (of THE EARTH) in HELL BENEATH?

John 8:23 YE are FROM BENEATH; I AM from ABOVE: YE are of THIS WORLD; I AM NOT of this world.

HE is FROM ABOVE = YE are FROM BENEATH

Isaiah 14:9 HELL BENEATH are of THE CHEIF ONES OF THE EARTH


Prov 15:24 THE WAY OF ~LIFE~ IS ABOVE to the wise, that HE may ***DEPART FROM** HELL BENEATH .


HE is THE WAY, the TRUTH and THE LIFE (HE that is FROM ABOVE) The WAY OF LIFE that one MIGHT DEPART from HELL BENEATH (THROUGH HIM WHO has the KEYS of DEATH and HELL)

The GATES OF DEATH are a THEY that HATE ME. The GATES OF HELL not prevailing against HIS CHURCH is because ITS ON A EQUAL PLAYING FEILD (IN THE WORLD) but SHES NOT OF IT.

John say he that HATETH (or loveth NOT) His brother ABIDETH IN DEATH. Its a spiritual ABODE (or state) of those who are physically alive (he was talking about) but ARE DEAD. These HAVE NOT the LOVE OF GOD IN THEM.

What does it mean that He ASCENDED but that he DESCENDETH FIRST into the LOWER EARTHLY REALMS? It was THEY who were from BENEATH it was THEY who WERE DEAD as HELL BENEATH is EQUATED with the KINGS OF THE EARTH.

Psalm 9:13 Have mercy upon me, O LORD; consider my trouble which I suffer OF THEM that HATE **ME**, ~thou that liftest me up from~ THE GATES OF DEATH:

Of THIS WORLD

John 15:18 If THE WORLD HATE YOU, ye know that IT HATED **ME** ~before~ it HATED YOU.

It was ON EARTH ones were making twofold the child of HELL (as THEY WERE) OF. Angels of LIGHT (ministers of righteousness) not Gods but THEIR OWN. They are convinced they are a LIGHT to the blind but are as THE BLIND LEADING THE BLIND into the pit (HELD UNDER DARKNESS) which is CALLED NIGHT He has a covenant with... HELD util judgment.

Jerm 33:25 Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with DAY and NIGHT, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of HEAVEN and EARTH;

Thats why words are used by the apostle Children OF THE DAY and not being of THE NIGHT (under darkness) in the City = YE are a CITY theres NO NIGHT THERE

Its the PASSING FROM DEATH (used interchangeable with darkness) unto LIFE and becoming NO MORE OF the darkness or of the night. As there is a covenant with night (shown above) theres the same shown as covenant of death.

Isaiah 28:15 We have made a covenant with DEATH, and with HELL are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Here it is being voided

Isaiah 28:18 And your covenant with DEATH shall be disannulled, and your agreement with HELL shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

HE is the one with these KEYS. HES the WAY of LIFE thats from ABOVE to DEPART from hell (shĕ'owl)
and to PASS FROM DEATH UNTO LIFE

2Cr 1:10 Who DELIVERED US (PAST) from so great a death, and DOTH deliver (PRESENT) ~in whom~ we trust that he WILL YET DELIVER(FUTURE) us;

I erase the other half but theres MORE showing the same things in various ways (not just one or two).

That make it better, or should I just stick to joking around because I stink at this?

 

[JWNEWMAN]

Fire,

I'm catching on...

 

[JayJay77]

I don't think the Bible ever says anything about Jesus going to hell. Ephesians 4:9 says "(What does 'he ascended' mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions?)" Not necessarily that He went to the lower parts of the earth meaning "hell."

I think Jesus' sacrifice on the cross is suitable for our salvation for two gospel reasons:
1) Jesus, Himself, said on the cross in John 19:30 "It is finished," a Greek word (teleo) meaning: the debt is paid.
2) The other 3 gospels agree with this in their own way by explaining that at the moment of Jesus' death on the cross, the curtain of the temple (separating the Holy Place from the Most Holy Place) was torn in half, symbolizing our ability to approach the throne of grace (Matt. 27:51; Mark 15:38; Luke 23:45).

So, poor Joyce Meyer is off in her doctrine of salvation, if she still believes this.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

Here is a link that seems to make at least a reasonable attempt to explain this concept: http://www.tbm.org/jesussuffershell.htm

I didn't want to post it, but at least it's from a biblical standpoint and not a revelation only, "cause the bible can't explain it point of view"

 

[JayJay77]

Interesting, JW.
I guess the Bible hints that Jesus may have gone to hell, but to link that with salvation? Why, then, the "it is finished" quote in John? Why the ripped curtain in the temple in the other three gospels right at the point of Jesus' death?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Fire,

I'm catching on...

You just saying that?

Look here, we are looking at the same thing on this post if your interested. Two other posters are seeing the same thing though they communicate it differently.I changed mine around and rewrote it adding a bunch to it (in one way you can) and if you can get past the colors that would be kool but maybe one of them can speak more plainly on it (which I do find one that does).

What is "hell"? - Foru.ms Forums

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[JWNEWMAN]

You just saying that?

Look here, we are looking at the same thing on this post if your interested. Two other posters are seeing the same thing though they communicate it differently.I changed mine around and rewrote it adding a bunch to it (in one way you can) and if you can get past the colors that would be kool but maybe one of them can speak more plainly on it (which I do find one that does).

What is "hell"? - Foru.ms Forums

Peace

Fireinfolding

I'm dyslexic so all the 'extra' stuff you use does send me spinning a bit.

 

[Fireinfolding]

I'm dyslexic so all the 'extra' stuff you use does send me spinning a bit.

Gotcha Its kool, ya definately dont want read it then, besides Joyce might be easier for you to tackle on one verse (not to mention one color)